Is this the worst run of awful football since Fergie retired?

It is up there. We were boring as feck under LvG, but we still had some positive qualities. We kept the ball well.
Hated us under Jose, so cynical and negative, but we defended well and rarely fell apart.
We had some rough spells in the Ole/Rangnick season, we were very close to being this bad. But this takes the cake, players are everywhere where they shouldn`t be, teams literally walks through us. We push for something in attack but there is absolutely nothing that seem to work in attack. No connection between the players except for the odd 1-2 pass, but then it dies.
 
Gordon S said:
It is up there. We were boring as feck under LvG, but we still had some positive qualities. We kept the ball well.
Hated us under Jose, so cynical and negative, but we defended well and rarely fell apart.
We had some rough spells in the Ole/Rangnick season, we were very close to being this bad. But this takes the cake, players are everywhere where they shouldn`t be, teams literally walks through us. We push for something in attack but there is absolutely nothing that seem to work in attack. No connection between the players except for the odd 1-2 pass, but then it dies.
Click to expand...
With LVG it was pass pass pass .
And counter and 1-0 down
 
Some of the worst football I have seen since the opening day of the season.

The worst part is that our handful of wins have been very lucky for the most part.
 
berbatrick said:
I think so. Even comparing between the end of the tenures:

Moyes ended with a double humiliation at home to City and Liverpool and symbolic destruction by Everton, but a month before that there were decent performances with Januzaj, Mata, and Nani.

LvG's end wasn't that bad - the West Ham game that cost 4th was terrible, but was at least a fight, and then the last game was an honest-to-god Cup final win. It was his Christmas that was insane - but again, it wasn't heavy defeats, but boring 0-0 or 0-1 defeats.

Jose's was a long funeral procession from the moment the 3rd season started - parallels with this one, actually. Previous season has been decent, with a dip at the end, new season an unmitigated disaster...though the players in 2018 delivered better than the guys now (3-2 Newcastle, 2-1 Juve, both with some nice goals and passages of play that just don't exist now). Once again, Liverpool made a fatal cut.

Ole - well, the season started with a 5-1 and some less spectacular wins, then Ronaldo started with a 4-1...and then, in a few weeks, it TOTALLY collapsed. The Moyes-esque Liverpool-City double followed by salt-in-wounds at Watford.

Ralf - literally no memory.

EtH - a worse version of Jose's end. Even the smaller teams dominate. No plan. No style. No results. Is there a Liverpool game coming up soon?
Click to expand...
It’s funny because that game felt so bad at the time. And it was because it cost top four, but more so because I thought we’d win going into it. In the same situation now, I’d have absolutely no hope at all that we’d win that game. The standards have fallen so unbelievably far since then.
 
I think we’ve played worse football in the last ten years, but this reminds me most of the final weeks of Ole: it has all gone to pieces and you can see the manager’s influence and power slipping through his fingers. Both men look shocked, unable to comprehend how things arrived at this point after such a good start for each of them. Perhaps ETH has reached the point where he knows the situation can’t be rectified, the tipping point has been passed.
 
berbatrick said:
I think so. Even comparing between the end of the tenures:

Moyes ended with a double humiliation at home to City and Liverpool and symbolic destruction by Everton, but a month before that there were decent performances with Januzaj, Mata, and Nani.

LvG's end wasn't that bad - the West Ham game that cost 4th was terrible, but was at least a fight, and then the last game was an honest-to-god Cup final win. It was his Christmas that was insane - but again, it wasn't heavy defeats, but boring 0-0 or 0-1 defeats.

Jose's was a long funeral procession from the moment the 3rd season started - parallels with this one, actually. Previous season has been decent, with a dip at the end, new season an unmitigated disaster...though the players in 2018 delivered better than the guys now (3-2 Newcastle, 2-1 Juve, both with some nice goals and passages of play that just don't exist now). Once again, Liverpool made a fatal cut.

Ole - well, the season started with a 5-1 and some less spectacular wins, then Ronaldo started with a 4-1...and then, in a few weeks, it TOTALLY collapsed. The Moyes-esque Liverpool-City double followed by salt-in-wounds at Watford.

Ralf - literally no memory.

EtH - a worse version of Jose's end. Even the smaller teams dominate. No plan. No style. No results. Is there a Liverpool game coming up soon?
Click to expand...

Agree. Not seen an uglier end than Ten Hag.

LvG’s end was unfortunate. It really seemed that he stumbled upon a system that worked which revolved around Martial and Rashford. We also controlled games from start to finish. I’m certain we would have improved the following year especially given how weak the league was the following season and that we were making progress. But ultimately Jose was available and we got him 3 years too late.

At the end of Jose, we were still tactically set up well and Jose had his reliable lieutenants like Matic and Herrerra that were guaranteed to leave everything on the pitch. We also had the quality of Pogba, Martial and Mata to bail us out, alongside always having the Fellaini option.

Ole’s end was ugly but it was clear to see that Ronaldo’s inability to press was the problem. We were so easy to play through and what looked like players being lazy was really players being fatigued from having to cover so much space. Ole should have stuck to the 3-5-2 and conservative press to accomodate Ronaldo’s inability to run, as he did at Spurs. While Ole’s tactical nous was questionable, his man-management never was.

Ten Hag’s end is the most bizarre and ugly I have seen. There isn’t enough quality to bail him out beyond Rashford and Bruno and even then the system exposes their weaknesses and hides their strengths. He’s lost the players and the Sancho issue has likely backfired spectacularly. He keeps persisting the same ineffective tactics which are so blatant to see because we keep conceding the same types of goals and chances. I feel lied to. I thought we had finally got a tactical manager after the so-called Norwegian PE teacher? But Ole’s tactical sense was better than Ten Hag’s!
 
  • Like
Reactions: berbatrick
It is certainly up there with the very worst of the post-SAF era, hard to say if it is the very worst.

He's certainly put out some teams that look absolutely hideous on paper and kill off any sense of optimism before a game.

And that's in no small part thanks to his own dealings in the transfer market and his unwillingness to see mistakes as clear as the nose on his face. Like continuing to start Casemiro and/or Eriksen in big games, playing Bruno on the wing and McTom at DM. Or just basically having no width at all in his side despite him blowing a third of his transfer budget on a tall, physical centre forward.

In terms of being infuritatingly stubborn, he's definitely the worst.
 
It’s about the same as the worst days of Ole and Mourinho. But I know stat wise this time could be even worst. But my feeling is that we play worst football with Rangnick, and most inspiring football with LVG.

But I wouldn’t blame Rangnick as much, as he literally spent 0 and didn’t have the time to implement the football he want with our existing players.
 
Last edited:
THE ZOL said:
Ole’s end was ugly but it was clear to see that Ronaldo’s inability to press was the problem. We were so easy to play through and what looked like players being lazy was really players being fatigued from having to cover so much space. Ole should have stuck to the 3-5-2 and conservative press to accomodate Ronaldo’s inability to run, as he did at Spurs. While Ole’s tactical nous was questionable, his man-management never was.
Click to expand...

Of course his man-management was questioned eventually. During the last weeks of his tenure, players in the squad were annoyed that he was always picking his favourites no matter how badly they were performing.
 
Amir said:
Of course his man-management was questioned eventually. During the last weeks of his tenure, players in the squad were annoyed that he was always picking his favourites no matter how badly they were performing.
Click to expand...

I categorise that as squad selection, but I can see how that falls under the man-management category. In that case, I do remember how Bailly was disgruntled about Maguire’s unlimited opportunities and ultimately it was Maguire that cost Ole the job.

The thing is - while Ole did not give chances to Donny, Dalot and Bailly, I don’t think they were influential enough to turn the dressing room against him.

However, as reported in the Telegraph today, Ten Hag’s treatment of Sancho and Maguire is playing a part in his issues with the players.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.