Yes?
Is this the start of Rooney's transition into midfield?
- Thread starter Carl
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Yes?
What are these countless games in a midfield three? Unless you're suggesting getting dumped out on the wing is the same as playing centre mid?
I think it's more likely that you overestimate Rooney.
Try again
Why the hell not, Giggs learnt it at 34-35.
True, although not so well if you believe the post-derby match threads.
Sums it up well.
I actually thought he looked natural playing there, really surprised people think he didn't. He's played a handful of games in centre mid throughout his whole career yet didn't look out of place. I can't think of another forward in the world who could do the same, so he's clearly got some natural affinity with the role.
Read the post Chelsea-threads from 2011 and you'll believe he played there very well. Or the year he won POTY in the process of "learning" his new role.
No reason at all that an intelligent football (rather than intelligent person
) can't learn to play a different role.I seem to remember Rooney playing centrally in a midfield-three(4-5-1)many times over the last 4-5 years. It has obviously not been the norm, but it has happened often enough none the less. I've grown at least mildly accustomed to it, which is why I'm not able to point to any specific games right now. I just thought it was common knowledge that Rooney works really well centrally in a midfield-three... Most peope wouldn't disagree with that. It's whether or not he works in a midfield-two that's the "issue" here. That's the question that divides the fan base.
I firmly believe that Rooney can do a good transition into CM. You belong to the other "side".
Scholes converted from forward to midfielder. Why can't Rooney do it?
Read the post Chelsea-threads from 2011 and you'll believe he played there very well. Or the year he won POTY in the process of "learning" his new role.
No reason at all that an intelligent football (rather than intelligent person
It's probably safe to say that Giggs is an exception, not the rule.
Besides them being completed different players, how far into his career was Scholes?
Giggs used to be a classical winger who relies on pace and flair. It actually makes much more sense for Rooney to do the transition, seeing as he's always been a versatile fighter who thrives centrally.
Nar, there's been plenty of occasions of a player learning a new role down the years. Paul Scholes started as a striker, Chris Sutton as a central defender, Dion Dublin.. a striker who managed to be a pretty handy centre half (a notoriously difficult role in a positional sense to learn).
Giggs is the more comparable of them though, having played in one position all his life and then performing in a completely different role. Starting off as this or that isn't really the same.
Schweinsteiger is SUPERB example of an attacking player learning to become one of the best central midfielders in the World when he was already a good bit into his career.
Dublin was in his 30's.
And like I said, there are plenty of other examples.But, as I said above, Schweinsteiger is your best example, very similar situation/age to Rooney.
Yeah, but he's not a world class midfielder, and has never been. He's been a world class winger at various times.
Rooney may become a good midfielder, but what are the odds he masters the tools needed to be superb in that role? He's already a world class striker. Why not bring a great midfielder in to complement that?
Well on the bright side it looks like we might have plenty of nothing games at the end of the season to try it out
I think he wants you to say 'no', Rowem.
There's genuinely no reason why Rooney shouldn't be able to adapt though, even at the grand old age of 27; he's demonstrated a number of times that the position suits him. It seems odd that the day after Rooney's been awarded MoM for a CM performance (his second MoM at CM) so many are enthusiastically attacking the notion that he can play well in this position.
He may be stupid, old, fat, slow, unfaithful, inconsistent, sloppy in possession, unable to score screamers, ugly, greedy and a cnut of a man, but nevertheless all evidence points towards him making a good central midfielder should SAF decide in that direction.
He is, but he wasn't a striker (Schweinsteiger), Rooney is. Rooney's a goalscorer first and foremost.
Semantics.
He was a winger, has a similar build and make-up to Rooney, a proper hard working winner of a footballer.
I mean, I obviously can't give you an example of an exact carbon copy of Wayne Rooney doing it, but Schweinsteiger is as good as you'll get. Pure proof that someone can move from an attacking role to CM deep in his career and become one of the World's best central midfielders.
He's played as pretty much an attacking midfielder for years, in 2009-10 he was a clear striker but since then he's far deeper. The transition is easier for him than Schweinsteiger or Giggs IMO.
It goes back to the old debate about where Rooney's best position is, which isn't in the hole or AM imo, let alone in CM.
Just because CM might not be Rooney's best position doesn't mean he wouldn't make an excellent CM.
I think the odds are heavily in his favor, but that's just my opinion...
Mainly for 2 reasons:
1. Money doesn't grow on trees. Fitting in an already integrated player is always better than to buy something new.
2. We have more than enough cover up front. Rooney IS United, but right now there's actually a chance of him being "pushed" around, seeing as Kagawa could step up to his Dortmund level any minute now, and we still have RVP and Hernandez. We need players like Rooney to STAY in the starting XI. Especially when they are in their prime. Right now, we are weakest on the wings and in CM. I personally think Rooney would have a much better future in CM, so that's why it makes sense to put him there.
By placing Rooney in CM, we potentially solve the CM "problem" and we finally give Kagawa a lengthy run in the AM position, which inevitably is going to turn him back into the star that he is. All that remains then is to find some wingers with flair. That is imo significantly easier than finding established CMs who are ready to jump straight into United's CM.
Aye that's fair enough, either view is reasonable IMO. I think his best football has come from a deeper position, but also his worst, whereas he was just ruthless as a striker. When he's on form I would always want him deeper personally.
Not strictly, makes it pretty unlikely though considering the difference of the two.
Rooney looked very, very comfortable in central midfield yesterday. Yes, it was only Stoke, but Stoke are a notoriously hard side to break down. They're easily beaten, but not easily decimated.
Let's see how Roo acquits himself against Chelsea and Arsenal before we pass judgment on whether Fergie should proceed with this plan next season.
Let's see how Roo acquits himself against Chelsea and Arsenal before we pass judgment on whether Fergie should proceed with this plan next season.
Yep. Also, just because attacking midfield isn't Rooney's best position (in Zen's opinion) doesn't mean central midfield won't be. Completely different way of playing. The truth is nobody knows how good he'll be.
I hope not but it wouldn't surprise me greatly.
When I see us linked with more strikers its the first thing that comes to mind.
Looking at it from a postive point of view if he successfully managed the transition having a 27 year old, presumably top class player in the centre would be a good thing no?
When I see us linked with more strikers its the first thing that comes to mind.
Looking at it from a postive point of view if he successfully managed the transition having a 27 year old, presumably top class player in the centre would be a good thing no?
So unlikely that both SAF and Wayne seem convinced he can excel in that position, plus he played there in our last fixture and won MoM; plus when he played CM before that he also won MoM.
It seems that the pigs you're ignoring have already flown.
Schweinsteiger is a fantastic example of a fantastic midfielder being forced out of position early on his career while he learned the game then going back to his actual position.
Rooney is a fantastic striker being moved into midfield on the assumption he can do a Scholes, who was also a great striker/AM.
Different scenarios you're forcing into one.
It certainly would, when hes on form I have absolutely no doubt he could do an excellent job there. My concern is what happens when he inevitably ISNT in form, would he suddenly become droppable where as he wasn't before? Do we drop forwards that are in form to move him forward again thereby pissing them off?
Yes, why not?
SAF's dropped Rooney before and he will do again. The notion that he's undroppable is nonsense; he was dropped for the Madrid game, no? It's certainly rare on account of his being perhaps the best player at the club, but it does happen.
And in that case I say we've got nothing to loose by giving it a try, he certainly has the tools to do a job there and its not like we are blessed with options.
No, Schweinsteiger was a winger, he only got moved into central midfield to accommodate the Ribery/Robben team.
Giggs has played in midfield all his life. Sure it was on the wing but that means you've got to have some positional sense when defending or else you're going to be useless. Forwards have no worries about keeping any lines. So to say that Giggs learned all that so late is ridiculous. He knew what he was doing when he started playing that position.
Rooney has at least as much positional sense as Ryan Giggs. They're both very intelligent footballers who have each demonstrated a superb ability to learn and adapt in the game; I don't think anybody's suggesting that either Giggs had to learn a new position from scratch or that Rooney will have to do so, rather, that there's much evidence to suggest that Rooney, like Giggs, is already in possession of the knowhow, versatility and ability to make the transition. The notion that you can't teach an old dog new tricks bears little relevance in regards to the world's best footballers; most of whom adapt their style of play a number of times over the course of their careers.
Rooney has played a tonne of games as a left midfielder too, and a tonne as an attacking mid, a position where he has needed to have as much sense as Ryan Giggs the flying winger.
To put it simply, if Ryan Giggs could become a Central Midfielder at 35 years, Wayne Rooney certainly can at 27. I mean, if you showed me a video of Giggs aged 24-27 and Rooney aged 24-27 and I'd never seen either of them play before, I know which one I'd tip to be more easily converted into a CM....
cider put it well when he stated that no-one had suggested that Giggs had to learn his role from scratch, and nor will/would Rooney.
He's not technically astute to be a top class centre midfielder we want and need. Stop begging people. He's a Striker and thats that. It's like assuming Raul and Del Piero could play centre midfield because they had exceptional control and balance for strikers.
You know he played CM yesterday, right?