Is this the poorest squad post SAF?

I think there’s more quality than we are currently showing.

Onana in goal is actually a good keeper but he’s also nuts. He lacks the confidence to come for crosses, makes amazing saves and also makes terrible mistakes. His mind is all over the place sometimes like when losing and in the last minute and he spends two fighting with a ref over where a free kick in our own half should be taken.

Left back. Weak, weak and weak. Dalot is not the answer. Centre back I believe they are good enough but underperforming, I’m incredibly disappointed in Martinez at present.

Midfield, Ugarte is a good solid player, Casemiro is history, we know what Mainoo can do, needs confidence and consistency that’ll hopefully come with age.

Right wing, Amad has something. Anthony runs around a lot.

Left wing, Rashford is gone and Gernacho is regressing.

Up front we have Hojilund who’s 21 and gets terrible service.

So yes the squad is weaker than it should have been but it’s not a 14th squad.

Can we honestly say, Forrest, Bournemouth, villa and Brighton have a better squad?
 
It’s a average squad with 4-2-3-1
It’s a terrible squad with 5-2-2-1
 
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Cheimoon said:
I don't know what your conclusion of that comparison is, but it seems to me the squad is considerably stronger now - which fits with my idea that this really isn't a weak squad per se. But it's got a big mental block currently, and it has received next to no instruction in the system it currently has to play.* But player for player, I think this squad is pretty strong and could compete for top 6 (or so?) - even if it would be a little short of goals and of course suffers from the (lack of) availability of Shaw, Mount, and Malacia.

* Which isn't Amorim's fault, I hasten to add. He was hired to do what he does (his 3-4-3) in a time of the season when there is very limited opportunity to train the squad in it.
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I strongly disagree. Apart from central defenders, the current squad is much worse. That version of Shaw was easily better than any current fullback. AWB was having his best season, he was at least as good as Mazraoui or Dalot. Pogba, Matic, and McFred as a unit were better and that was a weak point in that team. The attacking options were vastly superior back then, Cavani alone ensured that and it was the best version of Bruno. Pogba on the left, a position he played quite a bit that season is a better option than any forward United possess now. Even in the goalkeeping department, United had Henderson on the bench who can come in and perform as one of the best keepers in the league.

United needs a bigger overhaul than they did after the Moyes season and this time it will be far more justifiable.
 
Mike Smalling said:
How can you both say that the squad is very strong, but then also correctly identify that we have no proper goal scorers, no left footed fullback, and a crap goalkeeper?

The squad is crap. Absolutely crap. Unless the club realizes this, we are just going to go in circles with different managers, trying different systems and getting similar results.
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Agree, we have a mid table squad and now other teams have levelled up they are showing up us and an ageing City. The quality of the league has risen and we have regressed further in terms of squad.
 
What really gets me watching us vs. other teams, is how physically unsuited for the Premier League so much of our squad is. So many teams, even in the bottom half, have players that seem quick, strong and aggressive. Then you look at our lot. So many examples of players that are too slow, too weak, lacking in balance, or just ability to actually use their strength and size correctly.

When assessing the players that truly have the desired physical traits you could argue we are down to Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Dalot, Ugarte and Amad (ignoring goalkeepers). For pretty much all the other players, I have one or more concerns about their pure athletic ability.
 
Mike Smalling said:
What really gets me watching us vs. other teams, is how physically unsuited for the Premier League so much of our squad is. So many teams, even in the bottom half, have players that seem quick, strong and aggressive. Then you look at our lot. So many examples of players that are too slow, too weak, lacking in balance, or just ability to actually use their strength and size correctly.

When assessing the players that truly have the desired physical traits you could argue we are down to Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Dalot, Ugarte and Amad (ignoring goalkeepers). For pretty much all the other players, I have one or more concerns about their pure athletic ability.
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And Dalot is the only one amongst them you’d consider fast, which is probably the most important physical attribute of all.
 
RedDevil [NC] said:
Worst group of players and then throw in the wages/transfer fees and may be the worst in PL history.
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I'm not sure if a mathematical formula exists to work out such a thing, but the quality vs performance vs cost ratio must have our squad as the worst of all time.

I'm struggling to think of any other clubs that are comparable. PSG used to get mocked, but that was for not winning the CL with their expensive team of superstars. We can't even qualify for it despite spending over half a billion in the last few years alone. It's tragic and almost incomprehensible how badly we've been managed from top to bottom
 
Cheimoon said:
I don't know what your conclusion of that comparison is, but it seems to me the squad is considerably stronger now - which fits with my idea that this really isn't a weak squad per se. But it's got a big mental block currently, and it has received next to no instruction in the system it currently has to play.* But player for player, I think this squad is pretty strong and could compete for top 6 (or so?) - even if it would be a little short of goals and of course suffers from the (lack of) availability of Shaw, Mount, and Malacia.

* Which isn't Amorim's fault, I hasten to add. He was hired to do what he does (his 3-4-3) in a time of the season when there is very limited opportunity to train the squad in it.
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My conclusion is:

1) In 2020-21 we had more players, who could win the game for us. Today we have Diallo and Bruno, who can do that if they have a good game. Back then we had Bruno, Pogba, Cavani, a better Rashford and Greenwood if they had a good game.

2) We had a bigger squad in 2020-21: We have sold many average players since then. But the question is whether these average players did not become important in periods of many injuries. They gave depth to the squad even when there were injuries.

3) We are stronger in the center back position in 2024-25 than in 2020-21. Tuanzebe, Jones and Bailly were always injured. And with De Ligt and Martinez we look better now.

4) We are much weaker in the goalkeeping position in 2024-25. We had 3 quality goalkeepers then. Today we have Onana, which fluctuates a lot in quality. The other 2 are not real competitors.

5) In the central midfield, we were better in 2020-21. We were much stronger physically with Matic, Pogba and McT. Today we have Ugarte and Mainoo as the 2 permanent central midfield players, while Eriksen and Casemiro are on their way out. I think it was a mistake to sell McT as we now lack him and his physique. We get killed in all the set pieces, and here he was good too.

6) The back positions: We were much stronger here in 2020-21. We only have 4 backs in the squad for 2 positions. We are paying the price for that now that we have played with a left-back who is not a left-back all season. Sometimes we have even played with Evans or Martinez as left backs because we lack players here.

7) Attacking midfielders: In 2024-25 we really only have 1 player in that position - namely Bruno. Mount is always injured. The paradox is that in 2020-21 we played with 1 attacking midfielder, but under Amorim we play with 2 in this position, but do not have enough players for that. Proof that the current squad does not suit his desired formation. So here we are significantly weaker in 2024-25, as we only have Bruno for 2 positions. We have used Diallo and Garnacho as attacking midfielders, but they are wingers, and it is clearly visible.

8) Wingers: I actually think we look ok here in 2024-25 - on paper at least. The reality is that we have 2 wingers out of 4, who are not playing at their best - Rashford and Antony. You can think of Greenwood what you want, but we have never replaced him.

9) Forwards: 2020-21 were not strong here, but neither are our forwards in 2024-25. We have still not found a proper goalscorer after so many years. Cavani scored 17 goals in his first season for us, and Højlund scored 16. We are not stronger today, but just as weak as in 2020-21. The difference though is that in 2020-21 we had a better Rashford who could be used in that position and we had Greenwood who could also be used here. They were both quality in 2020-21.
 
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Comfortably our worse ever squad, it’s not even close. Special thanks to Erik Ten Haag for that and the absolute wankers who allowed this guy to sign so many players. A genuinely mediocre group of players.

Particular areas where this squad is grotesque.

- Mentality - in particular the likes of Onana, Dalot, Bruno, Zirkzee, Holjlund, Garnacho, Lindelof, Rashford. All seem to be lacking in this department. Whether it be crumbling under pressure, losing composure or not responding well to criticism. I’ve genuinely never seen anything like it. This reflects itself in particular with the amount of times we receive heavy beatings with quick fire goals. I mean how many fecking times are we going to lose 3-0 at home??

- Athleticism - The lack of speed, strength, agility and balance is rampant through the squad. De Ligt, Maz, Martinez, Ugarte, Casemiro, Mainoo, Bruno, Zirkzee, Anthony, lindelof, Evans, Maguire, Mount. It wouldnt be too bad if it was a couple but when it’s half of your squad you’ve got massive problems.
Ugarte and Maz have been okay signings this season but it very much feels like wrong time right players. Put them in liverpools team and they look like great signings cos their deficiencies are masked. Put them in ours and you have what you have.

Composure/intelligence/game management -
Bruno, Dalot, Garnacho, Rashford, Zirkzee, Onana, Malacia. They learnt from the worse in game manager I’ve ever seen at the club so shouldn’t be surprised. Explains the big chances missed, the constant conceding from set pieces, the quick fire back to back goals conceding. Poorly timed or executed passes/crosses.

What sticks out to me is Bruno is there in all three categories. He’s the talisman of this team. To be fair to him he’s always fit and reliable. However when players like him and Dalot pop up in these lacking areas in our squad and they also happen to be two of the first names on the team sheet purely cos they’re always fit and can last 90 mins it shows you the depth of the problems.
Two players who were enabled by ETH. Never developed under him and never saw consequences for poor performances. They also stick out like a sore thumb in Amorims system.
 
I think this is a better squad than the performances are showing. David Moyes had one of the worse squads. Despite coming of the back of a league we had a squad full of OAPs. We needed a proper rebuild from that moment.
 
Red00012 said:
It’s a average squad with 4-2-3-1
It’s a terrible squad with 5-2-2-1
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We have the central defenders for the 3-4-2-1 system. We just don’t have the wing backs which is crucial in this formation, we also don’t have the number 10s and we don’t have the clinical ST.
 
Put the first 11-13 man for man alongside the likes of Forest, West Ham, Fulham and Bournemouth and objectively it's very difficult to say we're better on paper.

We just have slightly more depth.
 
Of course it is.

Just looking at our attack:
Hoijlund 5/10
Garnacho 6/10
Zirkzee 3/10
Rashford n/a
Antony 3/10
Amad 7.5/10

What the feck is that. Only Amad gets into that Wolves side. Wolves!

Compare to what others had

Ole
Ronaldo
Greenwood
Rashford
Sancho
Lukaku (sold)
Martial
Cavani

Jose
Ibra (1 season)
Lukaku
Rashford
Martial
Sanchez
Rooney (sold)

LVG
Rashford
Rooney
RVP
Falcao
Di Maria
Hernandez (sold)

This is a fall from grace.

‘Look how they massacred my boy’
 
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Escobar said:
For sure the most braindead and mentally weak
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Braindead is the correct term, I have never seen a more unintelligent bunch of United players. Even under the LVG bore years they were intelligent enough to do what he asked, I just cannot see how ANY manager could change the way these idiots play.
 
Has to be our worst squad. I've never seen a United team lacking so much in quality in my lifetime. Only few technically good players, poor mentality across the team, and plenty of average to good players that would never start for a team challenging for trophies.

That doesn't mean that we need a new squad, but we really really need some top quality players. We can't keep looking for a good deal here and there. I understand the need to go for potential long term, but the likes for Hojlund will not flourish in a failing team.
 
It’s definitely not our worst squad it’s just the other teams in the league are so much better now. Drop the Ragnick team in this league they’d be even worse.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Comfortably our worse ever squad, it’s not even close. Special thanks to Erik Ten Haag for that and the absolute wankers who allowed this guy to sign so many players. A genuinely mediocre group of players.

Particular areas where this squad is grotesque.

- Mentality - in particular the likes of Onana, Dalot, Bruno, Zirkzee, Holjlund, Garnacho, Lindelof, Rashford. All seem to be lacking in this department. Whether it be crumbling under pressure, losing composure or not responding well to criticism. I’ve genuinely never seen anything like it. This reflects itself in particular with the amount of times we receive heavy beatings with quick fire goals. I mean how many fecking times are we going to lose 3-0 at home??

- Athleticism - The lack of speed, strength, agility and balance is rampant through the squad. De Ligt, Maz, Martinez, Ugarte, Casemiro, Mainoo, Bruno, Zirkzee, Anthony, lindelof, Evans, Maguire, Mount. It wouldnt be too bad if it was a couple but when it’s half of your squad you’ve got massive problems.
Ugarte and Maz have been okay signings this season but it very much feels like wrong time right players. Put them in liverpools team and they look like great signings cos their deficiencies are masked. Put them in ours and you have what you have.

Composure/intelligence/game management -
Bruno, Dalot, Garnacho, Rashford, Zirkzee, Onana, Malacia. They learnt from the worse in game manager I’ve ever seen at the club so shouldn’t be surprised. Explains the big chances missed, the constant conceding from set pieces, the quick fire back to back goals conceding. Poorly timed or executed passes/crosses.

What sticks out to me is Bruno is there in all three categories. He’s the talisman of this team. To be fair to him he’s always fit and reliable. However when players like him and Dalot pop up in these lacking areas in our squad and they also happen to be two of the first names on the team sheet purely cos they’re always fit and can last 90 mins it shows you the depth of the problems.
Two players who were enabled by ETH. Never developed under him and never saw consequences for poor performances. They also stick out like a sore thumb in Amorims system.
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100% this!
 
Top teams have players who are either gifted athletes or supreme technicians. Elite teams have multiple players who are both.

Us? We have the odd player who's athletic. We have the odd player who's technically gifted. We have none who are both and plenty who are neither.
 
We have been saying for 10 years now that we need a DOF and a transfer strategy. For every manager we buy players with a completely different style. So when you eventually sack the manager, which always happens, you are left with a squad that needs to be replaced for the new managers tactics/style.

We just don’t seem to learn.
Watch us spend big on wingbacks, only for them to be useless in 2 years when Amorim gets sacked.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Comfortably our worse ever squad, it’s not even close. Special thanks to Erik Ten Haag for that and the absolute wankers who allowed this guy to sign so many players. A genuinely mediocre group of players.

Particular areas where this squad is grotesque.

- Mentality - in particular the likes of Onana, Dalot, Bruno, Zirkzee, Holjlund, Garnacho, Lindelof, Rashford. All seem to be lacking in this department. Whether it be crumbling under pressure, losing composure or not responding well to criticism. I’ve genuinely never seen anything like it. This reflects itself in particular with the amount of times we receive heavy beatings with quick fire goals. I mean how many fecking times are we going to lose 3-0 at home??

- Athleticism - The lack of speed, strength, agility and balance is rampant through the squad. De Ligt, Maz, Martinez, Ugarte, Casemiro, Mainoo, Bruno, Zirkzee, Anthony, lindelof, Evans, Maguire, Mount. It wouldnt be too bad if it was a couple but when it’s half of your squad you’ve got massive problems.
Ugarte and Maz have been okay signings this season but it very much feels like wrong time right players. Put them in liverpools team and they look like great signings cos their deficiencies are masked. Put them in ours and you have what you have.

Composure/intelligence/game management -
Bruno, Dalot, Garnacho, Rashford, Zirkzee, Onana, Malacia. They learnt from the worse in game manager I’ve ever seen at the club so shouldn’t be surprised. Explains the big chances missed, the constant conceding from set pieces, the quick fire back to back goals conceding. Poorly timed or executed passes/crosses.

What sticks out to me is Bruno is there in all three categories. He’s the talisman of this team. To be fair to him he’s always fit and reliable. However when players like him and Dalot pop up in these lacking areas in our squad and they also happen to be two of the first names on the team sheet purely cos they’re always fit and can last 90 mins it shows you the depth of the problems.
Two players who were enabled by ETH. Never developed under him and never saw consequences for poor performances. They also stick out like a sore thumb in Amorims system.
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Pretty much exactly this. Excellent post, mate.
 
This is undeniably our worst squad during the PL era. Others have made the argument that I cannot add a whole to, but to frame it a slightly different way I don’t see more than one player, Amad — who has only been brilliant for less than a full season, who would even break into the starting XI of any of the starting XI of the pre-ETH era. You could make a case for Bruno, but his inconsistency raises serious questions about his ability to perform under those managers. Yes, Bruno and Rashford regularly started under Ole but those two players then are vastly superior to the current Bruno and Rashford.

Horrendous ownership, not just player management, has felled this club. Can we not find some way to force the Glazers out? I’m willing to boycott the club if that’s what it will take.
 
Murtough and Ten Hag need to be brought back to be questioned for embezzlement and money laundering. Most of the big money signings are barely half their worth. A good exec would have taken back the controller when it was getting obvious he knew jack outside the Eredivise. Instead we gave him a half billion and are now shocked our squad looks more suited to playing in a lesser league.
 
I think the only way we start to come out of this is if we seriously start a massive fire sale on the squad.
Clear out all the wasters, including the ones on big contracts (Just get rid even if its initial losses for future gains) and just replace them with young and hungry players that can play in Amorims system and want to fight for the club. Morgan Rogers is flying at Villa and he cost £8m (rising to £15m)
You don't need to be buying players that cost £40m and over.
Easier said than done of course but that's what these guys in the boardroom are paid big bucks to do.
 
You guys are just so emotionally all over the place. This squad really isn't bad, at all, it's just the attack has been geared towards building for the future.

People change their minds on players like the wind direction these days, we’ve broadly got good defenders, midfielders and some promising attackers - it’s a much better squad than where we are in the league right now and much better than Ragnicks tenure for example.
 
Mike Smalling said:
How can you both say that the squad is very strong, but then also correctly identify that we have no proper goal scorers, no left footed fullback, and a crap goalkeeper?

The squad is crap. Absolutely crap. Unless the club realizes this, we are just going to go in circles with different managers, trying different systems and getting similar results.
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100% correct. Easily the worst squad we've had since I started watching 40 years ago. This squad might have potential and it might not but right now it is absolutely crap as you say.
 
The main problem is we seem technically and physically so far behind most of our opponents.

Looking at our team yesterday I'd say only Mazraoui, Mainoo (although out of form) and Amad are technical players. Maguire and Ugarte are also decent on the ball but not amazing technically. Lisandro was good on the ball but seems to be off the boil a bit.

Then you look at strength and Lisandro, Yoro, Amad, Mainoo, Bruno, Hojlund and Dalot can all get knocked off the ball too easily at times.

In terms of speed, Maguire, Martinez, Mainoo, Bruno all feel quite slow.

We are missing players who have all of the above, the technique, speed and power to play in this league. Obviously it's normal to have players with varying skill sets but we don't seem to have many that you can say possess all three. That with a lack of aggression and composure on the ball is killing us right now.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
I can’t think of a United squad in the past decade or so less devoured of ideas, skill, creativity, charisma, flair, hard work, intelligence, leadership, goals etc etc. And this is not knee jerk by any means.

It’s less than three years ago, our squad included players such as De Gea, Pogba, Mata, Ronaldo, Martial, Greenwood, Pereira, Varane, Fred, Cavani, Sancho, Matic, Henderson, McTominay, Elanga, Garner. No angels I know, but compared to what we have available now?

Collectively as a squad, I believe it’s deteriorating and this is the worst group I can recall.
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I think I've been spoiled big time by saf. Casue that's a shit squad. The only player I'd take out of that group is de gea. The downward spiral started the moment saf and gill left. Woodward and moyes brought in felanni. Then a Chelsea reject in Mata. Don't get me wrong. Mata is a good guy, I like him alot. But a united player he is not.

At one point on the united web site we were so good they had a segment called trickbox to highlight the crazy skills we had in the team. I thought it was on after every game but I could be wrong. It sure felt like it.
 
Don't know who to blame anymore. Is there anyone left at the top of the system - who has been there for the last five years?
 
I actually hate what ten hag has done to this team. It’s a disgrace.
Ole was sacked after finishing second and people moaning it wasn’t good enough and we’d never challenge for the league under him.

One permanent manager since that and he’s absolutely annihilated what we had
 
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