Is there a place for Rashford as a regular starter?

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Rashford is a decent player. He is not a Giggs let alone a Ronaldo but he's certainly better then Welbeck/Cleverley. The problem with United is

A- We're running him to the ground. That causes two major issues. First of all we're burning him up. Secondly we're giving him the impression that he's a way better player then he is actually is. Rashford is first team level just as Gaz, Heinze and Cole were. He's not good enough to spend his entire career at United without having to constantly watch his back. We're not talking about Scholes or Ronaldo level of talent here.

B- His off the pitch activity are becoming a major part of what he is. His brand name as England's darling makes him difficult to drop but it also attracts criticism when things start going wrong. Questions like 'is he focusing on football enough?' etc will always come out given circumstances.

C- Rashford had been asked to switch role and tempo by Rangnick at a time when United are a mess. That will have an impact on any player especially someone whose good but is hardly a football prodigy. There's a very valid reason why Rashford was switched from forward to a winger and someone should explain that to Rangnick.


So what Rashford needs is to be taken off the pitch. It would give him time to relax, regroup and slowly build up confidence in this new formation.
 
devilish said:
…….B- His off the pitch activity are becoming a major part of what he is. ………
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According to that BBC article yesterday, he’s not been as much involved in his off-the-pitch charity activities this season.

“And it has been stressed there is no issue at United about his work off the field around underprivileged children, which, in any case, has not been so central to his life this season.”
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Banana Republic said:
According to that BBC article yesterday, he’s not been as much involved in his off-the-pitch charity activities this season.




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This is what I don't get.

He has been poor on the pitch and no one can doubt that.

But why do people bring up something he done a year or two ago as something that causes him a problem now?

It's like people are thinking that he finishes a match, then straight after goes in to Oxfam to spend some hours there, goes home but misses training because he is feeding some poor kids on the way to work too and then still manages to play regularly in the first team due to being a Ole Gunnar Solskjaer favourite.

Sure if there was proof that he was in to it as deeply as fans are mentioning then I'd be worried but I don't exactly see the proof either.

Players can be very charitable in their spare time - but I'm not sure why people are sure that it's getting in his way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53070631.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1567721-cristiano-ronaldo-21-things-hes-done-off-the-pitch-that-proves-hes-an-incredible-guy?amp
 
sullydnl said:
Rashford was the fourth youngest player to reach 250 games for United and at 24 already has as many or more 50+ appearances seasons for United as the likes of Beckham, Giggs, Neville, etc. 111 matches and 7619 minutes over Solskjaer's two full seasons, while playing through injuries throughout that period.

If we're looking for a reason for him looking jaded now, that's it, not the charity work that keeps him occupied during his time off. He's been overpromoted and overplayed ever since he broke through. For his own sake and ours we need to stop relying on him so much.
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That's what I'm thinking the biggest part of the problem is, too many miles on the clock and surgery hasn't been able to restore him back to how he was.

Some of his movement looks like he's still in pain or discomfort but there's likely to be several factors and not just one.

It does look like he's frustrated with link up play as with the incident with Greenwood and Shawn's comments and that could be injury related too.

All that combined could be a massive stress so I hope the club's psychologist can give him some techniques that are of practical help.
 
Bebestation said:
This is what I don't get.

He has been poor on the pitch and no one can doubt that.

But why do people bring up something he done a year or two ago as something that causes him a problem now?

It's like people are thinking that he finishes a match, then straight after goes in to Oxfam to spend some hours there, goes home but misses training because he is feeding some poor kids on the way to work too and then still manages to play regularly in the first team due to being a Ole Gunnar Solskjaer favourite.

Sure if there was proof that he was in to it as deeply as fans are mentioning then I'd be worried but I don't exactly see the proof either.

Players can be very charitable in their spare time - but I'm not sure why people are sure that it's getting in his way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53070631.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1567721-cristiano-ronaldo-21-things-hes-done-off-the-pitch-that-proves-hes-an-incredible-guy?amp
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I agree 100%. Given what he's achieved in that role, I would expect it to be a very positive thing, something energising to see your effort have a big effect.
 
The amount of puff trying to defend this guy is absolutely ridiculous.

Every time he puts in an awful performance, we get essays, paragraphs and theses but no measurable change in performance on the pitch.
 
We can always speculate about why Rashford is performing poorly. Some explanations might sensible even but the simple truth is that he should no longer be a regular starter.
He just isn't performing nearly enough for that
 
No he should not be a regular. He should fight for his place. Right now he has not done enough to get a starting place.
 
devilish said:
Rashford is a decent player. He is not a Giggs let alone a Ronaldo but he's certainly better then Welbeck/Cleverley. The problem with United is

A- We're running him to the ground. That causes two major issues. First of all we're burning him up. Secondly we're giving him the impression that he's a way better player then he is actually is. Rashford is first team level just as Gaz, Heinze and Cole were. He's not good enough to spend his entire career at United without having to constantly watch his back. We're not talking about Scholes or Ronaldo level of talent here.

B- His off the pitch activity are becoming a major part of what he is. His brand name as England's darling makes him difficult to drop but it also attracts criticism when things start going wrong. Questions like 'is he focusing on football enough?' etc will always come out given circumstances.

C- Rashford had been asked to switch role and tempo by Rangnick at a time when United are a mess. That will have an impact on any player especially someone whose good but is hardly a football prodigy. There's a very valid reason why Rashford was switched from forward to a winger and someone should explain that to Rangnick.


So what Rashford needs is to be taken off the pitch. It would give him time to relax, regroup and slowly build up confidence in this new formation.
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Not enough mention of his poor decision making stunting his growth imo. All of these things are more about changes around the player than the player himself.
 
stw2022 said:
A pot and kettle situation surely when it comes to Rashford if we’re complaining about another player falling to pass to him when in a better position.

Greenwood is 20 and has appeared in a fraction of games at senior level and started even less compared to Rashford. The fact to defend Rashford so many others have to be dragged down from current and previous managers to Ronaldo to Greenwood to lord knows who else, is telling.

He was played out of position
Just needs a rest
Ole ruined him
He never had a pre season
He’s playing injured
Ronaldo has stunted his development
He’s clearly struggling mentally
Still recovering from the surgery
Looks like he’s got a lot on his mind
Greenwood’s selfishness is the problem

…honestly why is it never: maybe Rashford isn’t that good?
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I don't rate Rashford either so I agree with you. There's still an excuse to be made for Greenwood. He's still learning and I'll have him over Rashford in this current squad.
We have so many problems right now that it's difficult to know where to begin addressing the issues.
 
Everyone in the media is of the impression that rashford has just lost the passion and desire at the moment which is believable with the complete apathy he had to follow up on a few rebounds against villa in the cup.

If ragnick is to insist on this 4222, I would actually be curious to see how rashford with either martial or Greenwood as a strike partnership would perform chemistry wise rather than sticking in these hybrid number 10 positions which is not anywhere near the type of players they are.
 
With the wages he’s reportedly on (£200k a week if I’m correct?), then he’s got to be a first team regular starter for us or I don’t think he can be here. Can you really afford to have a bench player/squad rotation option on £200k a week? It doesn’t really make financial sense unless your club is owned by a oil daddy and have that infinite money cheat code activated.

Also it doesnt bode well with the rest of the squad if a hypothetical academy player on £40k a week is regularly playing and there’s a guy on the bench on 5 times as much… It will present problems in contract renewal with existing players and it fecks us in transfer negotiations for new players where agents and players will say “well you’re paying a bench player £200k a week so something close to that please”
 
I think the best thing is to give him an extended period of time on the bench.

He is clearly a good player but in a terrible run of form at the moment. I'm not sure if his issues are physical or mental but he looks miles away from the player of a few seasons ago.

If we took him out of the firing line for a bit he would probably come back a better player
 
Red Rash said:
I think the best thing is to give him an extended period of time on the bench.

He is clearly a good player but in a terrible run of form at the moment. I'm not sure if his issues are physical or mental but he looks miles away from the player of a few seasons ago.

If we took him out of the firing line for a bit he would probably come back a better player
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don't even want him sold or benched for a random extended period, just want performance based selection. Let them earn their place or hit the bench. Players in bad form shouldn't start every week, starter not playing well? sub him off. Is it too much to ask? Why is the club run like a clown show with all these average performers given rank?

If Rangnick allows himself to be a part of the internal politics then he too can look forward to press releases about his mismanagement when he's gone. No one currently is good enough to be guaranteed anything.
 
Greck said:
don't even want him sold or benched for a random extended period, just want performance based selection. Let them earn their place or hit the bench. Players in bad form shouldn't start every week, starter not playing well? sub him off. Is it too much to ask? Why is the club run like a clown show with all these average performers given rank?

If Rangnick allows himself to be a part of the internal politics then he too can look forward to press releases about his mismanagement when he's gone. No one currently is good enough to be guaranteed anything.
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Of course, we can't guarantee that everything that Rangnick says in a press conference is 100% true. However, it seems that he says what he thinks and keeps quiet about issues, if he doesn't want to talk about it. In other words, he doesn't simply make positive sounding comments in order to sound positive, which is something that Ole seemed to do.

All of this is to say, Rangnick said that he started Rashford at Aston Villa because of his performance in training. He also said that Rashford played well in the first half, but stopped making runs into the box in the 2nd half, which is why he replaced him. This seems true to what I saw. I have not seen Rangnick giving Rashford a starting spot due to politics! And Rashford was subbed off!

Elanga looked good when he came on. If Elanga starts this Saturday against Villa, can we be certain that an unproven 19-year-old with a few good appearances and few average appearances with the senior side will shine in this game?

I agree with you that every player should earn their way into the starting squad. I'm not sure that is happening.
 
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Greck said:
don't even want him sold or benched for a random extended period, just want performance based selection. Let them earn their place or hit the bench. Players in bad form shouldn't start every week, starter not playing well? sub him off. Is it too much to ask? Why is the club run like a clown show with all these average performers given rank?

If Rangnick allows himself to be a part of the internal politics then he too can look forward to press releases about his mismanagement when he's gone. No one currently is good enough to be guaranteed anything.
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Yea I agree completely but sometimes players just need 4-5 games out to recover physically and mentally.

There is definitely a lot of politics going on at that club and some players are continually being picked regardless of how bad they play.

I'm really not sure if it's related to them largely being British players, marketing reasons, high salaries or favourites of the coaching staff but this would never have happened under Sir Alex and look at the state of the club now compared to when he was in charge.

The way this club is run from top to bottom is a joke.
 
It has to be a confidence thing as his initial instinct it seems now is to get the ball and pass it back to Shaw or sideways to a midfielder rather than as he used to do and run at the full back.

Is it the back injury ? Is it the shoulder injury ? Is it serious lack of confidence ? Is it being run into the ground and being rushed back from injury too soon every single time ? Is it playing within himself to accommodate Ronaldo ? Is it a combination of all of them ? It’s not ability as he’s as good as any English wide player and better than most at his best.

What we do need to do is STOP playing Rashford in multiple positions and play him on the left when he plays, let him master that position as best he can then judge him on that then. It’s something that’s annoyed me for years that we constantly try fitting square pegs in round holes then wonder why the player doesn’t perform as they can do.

If after Rashford masters the left forward role and he’s not good enough as a squad player then move him on like other clubs all manage to do, we either play players out of position or keep them on when they’re clearly not good enough whilst every other club can assess and make a permanent decision on a player.
 
devilish said:
Rashford is a decent player. He is not a Giggs let alone a Ronaldo but he's certainly better then Welbeck/Cleverley. The problem with United is

A- We're running him to the ground. That causes two major issues. First of all we're burning him up. Secondly we're giving him the impression that he's a way better player then he is actually is. Rashford is first team level just as Gaz, Heinze and Cole were. He's not good enough to spend his entire career at United without having to constantly watch his back. We're not talking about Scholes or Ronaldo level of talent here.

B- His off the pitch activity are becoming a major part of what he is. His brand name as England's darling makes him difficult to drop but it also attracts criticism when things start going wrong. Questions like 'is he focusing on football enough?' etc will always come out given circumstances.

C- Rashford had been asked to switch role and tempo by Rangnick at a time when United are a mess. That will have an impact on any player especially someone whose good but is hardly a football prodigy. There's a very valid reason why Rashford was switched from forward to a winger and someone should explain that to Rangnick.


So what Rashford needs is to be taken off the pitch. It would give him time to relax, regroup and slowly build up confidence in this new formation.
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Please, running him into the ground, he has only played a few games since returnign from injury. Dont agree with the Ragnick comments either, he has mainly been on the left, jsut switching wings with the other winger, not sur eif that is a Ragnick thing or just trying somethign to get more out of the wingers who have generally been poor.

I do to a degree agree with quite a lot of what you are saying in the post, partly why I picked it to respond to rather than pillory some of the in my opinion drivel posts defendign him. I get he is a media and supporter darling being a young, black, homegrown, local player who has done good things off of the pitch....but quoting Keane and his criticism of Maguire, players should be judged on what they do on the pitch so people should stop making excuses for him as like you say he has been held in esteem of being far better than he actually is, he is a talented player but was never hte world beater made out and still some think him to be. And the Nevilles, Heinze and Cole you comapre him to are the right sentiment but wrong players for me, they were consistent and always improving, he hasnt earned the right to be in the sam esentence as them so far
 
jesperjaap said:
Please, running him into the ground, he has only played a few games since returnign from injury. Dont agree with the Ragnick comments either, he has mainly been on the left, jsut switching wings with the other winger, not sur eif that is a Ragnick thing or just trying somethign to get more out of the wingers who have generally been poor.

I do to a degree agree with quite a lot of what you are saying in the post, partly why I picked it to respond to rather than pillory some of the in my opinion drivel posts defendign him. I get he is a media and supporter darling being a young, black, homegrown, local player who has done good things off of the pitch....but quoting Keane and his criticism of Maguire, players should be judged on what they do on the pitch so people should stop making excuses for him as like you say he has been held in esteem of being far better than he actually is, he is a talented player but was never hte world beater made out and still some think him to be. And the Nevilles, Heinze and Cole you comapre him to are the right sentiment but wrong players for me, they were consistent and always improving, he hasnt earned the right to be in the sam esentence as them so far
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Rashford has smashed the 45 games + per season for the past 6 years and in the EPL. Last year he played 57 games which is his own record of games and that despite carrying an injury. Its no wonder why the other player whose been run to the ground (Bruno) is not performing greatly either.

Regarding the 4-2-2-2 system its expect flank men to play very narrow. That mentality + the tempo utilised is completely different to Ole's system thus as Ronaldo said everyone requires time to adapt.

I fully agree with your last point. Commitment is very important at this level and it becomes even more important with first teamers like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, (and to mention players of the past, Gaz, Heinze, Cole, Johnsen etc) whose talent made them border first team level. These sort of players can't afford a dip in terms of commitment as someone could easily be signed and take their job. If you ask me, we have too many players who think that they are better then they actually are. That gives them a level of complacency that is totally undeserving. The fact that United are so slow in getting rid of rotten apples and compensating the slightest of effort/form with new contracts doesn't help. United are a top club and one of the very few clubs left who can pay top salaries. Players should be scared shit of losing their job. I don't see that fear in our first team.
 
He isn’t a child. If he’s injured or not fit he should not be making himself available for selection. What ridiculous expectation of a coaching staff if rather than relying on adults to say when they’re not 100% so they can take action, instead a stupid cat and mouse game whereby a player says his fit despite not being so and when his performances are shit a few months later everyone blames the coaching staff. He isn’t a shy 6 year old child who doesn’t know his own body, mind or who is lacking the confidence to tell people about anything.

I mean that ridiculous story that he “overcome his natural shyness” to ask that famously intimidating personality - Ole Gunnar Solskjær - a question. Give me a break. Does he cry and run away every time the lady in the canteen asks him if he wants tea?

Honestly this is Boris Johnson levels of accountability. Nothing his his fault; his performances, making himself available when injured, his workrate…. It’s as if he had absolutely no agency over himself at all and still people insist he’s a “top player”.

At this point I’d be impressed if some accepted he’s even responsible for his own bowel movements because he seems to be accountable for absolutely nothing else.
 
stw2022 said:
He isn’t a child. If he’s injured or not fit he should not be making himself available for selection. What ridiculous expectation of a coaching staff if rather than relying on adults to say when they’re not 100% so they can take action, instead a stupid cat and mouse game whereby a player says his fit despite not being so and when his performances are shit a few months later everyone blames the coaching staff. He isn’t a shy 6 year old child who doesn’t know his own body, mind or who is lacking the confidence to tell people about anything.

I mean that ridiculous story that he “overcome his natural shyness” to ask that famously intimidating personality - Ole Gunnar Solskjær - a question. Give me a break. Does he cry and run away every time the lady in the canteen asks him if he wants tea?

Honestly this is Boris Johnson levels of accountability. Nothing his his fault; his performances, making himself available when injured, his workrate…. It’s as if he had absolutely no agency over himself at all and still people insist he’s a “top player”.

At this point I’d be impressed if some accepted he’s even responsible for his own bowel movements because he seems to be accountable for absolutely nothing else.
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We have turned into Excuses FC and some of the PR by our players and Managers is just so cringey that it beggars belief to be honest .
 
The time and effort we put into him and Martial yet both aren’t that much(if even) better than they were at 19. Rashford really annoys me with his awful decision making and overall football brain.
Yet when he loses the ball he just walts around and he seems to think he is better than he actually is
 
I have reached a stage where I wouldn't mind if we sell him for good money and reinvest in players who want to prove a point and win something.

This guy's head is gone.
 
devilish said:
Rashford has smashed the 45 games + per season for the past 6 years and in the EPL. Last year he played 57 games which is his own record of games and that despite carrying an injury. Its no wonder why the other player whose been run to the ground (Bruno) is not performing greatly either.

Regarding the 4-2-2-2 system its expect flank men to play very narrow. That mentality + the tempo utilised is completely different to Ole's system thus as Ronaldo said everyone requires time to adapt.

I fully agree with your last point. Commitment is very important at this level and it becomes even more important with first teamers like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, (and to mention players of the past, Gaz, Heinze, Cole, Johnsen etc) whose talent made them border first team level. These sort of players can't afford a dip in terms of commitment as someone could easily be signed and take their job. If you ask me, we have too many players who think that they are better then they actually are. That gives them a level of complacency that is totally undeserving. The fact that United are so slow in getting rid of rotten apples and compensating the slightest of effort/form with new contracts doesn't help. United are a top club and one of the very few clubs left who can pay top salaries. Players should be scared shit of losing their job. I don't see that fear in our first team.
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Lets not over exaggerate stats over the last 6years. The first two seasons of those, half of his appearances were from the bench and he only started 75% of the games the following two years. I would agree he was played too much last season for sure, especially carrying an injury and not beign that good, he had the injury excuse then, but and I think we agree, he has only been good two seasons, one of them was a cameo in his breakthorugh run of games and the last a couple of seasons ago. Would agree Fernandes has defiantely been overplayed though.

But all this formation talk and alck of width.....we have been playing 4-4-2 the alst three games with plenty of width, it shold suit Rashford he has space to move with the ball, I dont buy into that at all.

I get your sentiment about players but really dont agree with the players you are using as examples. Maguire is a record signing and AWB we paid £50m, far more is to be expected of them....or maybe was in the first place. Up until the last few yeasr Gary Neville has been the best right back England has had in a generation (not great competition admitedly), Heinze was superb until the injury and unfortunate what turned out for a while to be one of the worlds best elft backs took his place (think a lot of that is forgotten due to his flrtation with Liverpool), Ronny Johnsen for me is the most under rated centre ack we have had by many fans, he was an excellent centre back and a fantastic partner for Stam, he is a far better centr back than those we have currently.
 
stw2022 said:
He isn’t a child. If he’s injured or not fit he should not be making himself available for selection. What ridiculous expectation of a coaching staff if rather than relying on adults to say when they’re not 100% so they can take action, instead a stupid cat and mouse game whereby a player says his fit despite not being so and when his performances are shit a few months later everyone blames the coaching staff. He isn’t a shy 6 year old child who doesn’t know his own body, mind or who is lacking the confidence to tell people about anything.

I mean that ridiculous story that he “overcome his natural shyness” to ask that famously intimidating personality - Ole Gunnar Solskjær - a question. Give me a break. Does he cry and run away every time the lady in the canteen asks him if he wants tea?

Honestly this is Boris Johnson levels of accountability. Nothing his his fault; his performances, making himself available when injured, his workrate…. It’s as if he had absolutely no agency over himself at all and still people insist he’s a “top player”.

At this point I’d be impressed if some accepted he’s even responsible for his own bowel movements because he seems to be accountable for absolutely nothing else.
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If only there was a "Like" button.
 
We need a replacement in the summer. He's barely even squad worthy these days.
 
Samid said:
We need a replacement in the summer. He's barely even squad worthy these days.
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Never been good enough against a low block. He has been diabolical for some time now though.
 
A new low. Has lost any and all football ability. The man can literally not control a ball anymore, cannot run with it, cannot pass to save his life.

literally offers nothing.
 
As a regular in lower table team probably. 0 chance on our team. He stinks like a chicken turd on the pitch
 
It's quite amazing how he regressed. I don't think I have ever seen it this badly at his age, especially staying and playing for the same team.
 
Having lost Greenwood, he couldn't have picked a worse time to turn to crap. At least Elanga has emerged as a somewhat useful option.
 
Not even in bottom five of our worst performers tonight but the agenda must be peddled of course.
 
I’ll keep the faith, at this point it’s blind faith but new manager & a proper system will hopefully unleash something from within. We’ve more pressing issues in that team imo.
 
Another horror show. Looked so far out of his depth out there.
 
There shouldn't be. But given the state of this club, he'll probably get a contract extension with a massive wage bump next month.
 
Surprised if he's still here in two years. Plays with the attitude of being forced to wash dishes. No enthusiasm, no work rate...nothing.
If he hates playing this much, bore off.
 
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