Lack of style is killing my enthusiasm for him.
Is ten Hag still *the one* (for you) or another placeholder?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
The one for the next two season (including this one) barring a complete collapse. Good managers have to be given time especially in our set up to at least get the squad in to shape, which wouldn't be such a big problem if we had a respectable director of football governing transfers.
Did Sir Alex think sacking Moyes was unjustified?We did. For a whole seven months, then we chucked that statement right out the window
We haven't listened to Sir Alex for the last 10 years, we're not going to start now.
Did he think it was justified? I don't know. He's never said anything about it.
The only truth was that he asked us to stand by the manager and we sacked Moyes after 7 months because we deemed him not worth giving more time to. And it was the same for LVG, Jose, Ole and also ten Hag because that's how the Glazers roll.
If still keep him for this season, because the structure above is still awful and our recruit is terrible.
I imagine De Zerbi will be the next one touted.
I imagine De Zerbi will be the next one touted.
Could still be *the one* but we need to start seeing significant improvement in the way we play football soon.
Yes. I just hope he doesn’t decide it ain’t worth the bother and walk away because what other top manager would risk his reputation on this shit show of a club
He’s most likely just a placeholder because the club is in such a mess, if we don’t get new owners he’ll be gone in a year or two most likely. If the ownership does change its hard to know how much longer they’d persist with him if there aren’t big strides made fairly quickly.
He’s a good manager, not convinced he’s a who great one but it’s still early days and who would look great at this club in its current state.
He’s a good manager, not convinced he’s a who great one but it’s still early days and who would look great at this club in its current state.
He hasn't in anyway tried to implement a possession style, he wants a "transition style" which means counter-attacking. Aside from Nottingham Forest, we have not dominated possession against any of the teams we've played. In the moments in games we get some kind of possession, Forest aside, it was meaningless possession passing from defence to goalkeeper.
Absolutely. Beyond the pure footballing sense, he has waged multiple battles within the club to carry out some cultural reform against the attitudes that we have long complained of, which has shown it face once more in the Sancho episode. I see him as someone who's conducting the hard and unsexy work in the background to ensure our foundations are better despite a pretty challenging hand that he's been given, and for that reason even if he's not immediately successful with football results I'm more than happy to give him a generous benefit of the doubt and plenty of room to build.
There is no such thing as "The One". The manager is an employee of the club, nothing more - ideally, the manager would be an easily replaceable cog in a well-oiled machine with a cohesive structure. We need to stop ascribing this godlike status to them or we'll never move forward.
For the record, I don't think we should sack ETH. These are my thoughts regardless of how well I think he's doing at any given moment.
For the record, I don't think we should sack ETH. These are my thoughts regardless of how well I think he's doing at any given moment.
Well said. Completely agree.
Who was in charge of our transfer last summer? ETH is not the only manager that this club have failed to provide with adequate reinforcement. Ole had to relly on McFred and bunch of old strikers for 3 seasons he was our manager, so it's important to ask who was in charge of our transfer? Making Mount a priority ahead of Ambrabat, failed to strengthen the CB position with KMJ and Pau Torres available for modest fee in the market, failed to sell McT when WHU bid 30m, making a 20 years old kid as our sole striker, who came up with this botched transfer strategy in the first place? This is more important than merely asking shall we change our manager or not.
This is where I'm at. He has my full backing but if we're still disjointed and so far off the pace come middle/end of the season, I'd need to re-assess. The OP raises a big point not often discussed: for all of his time here, he's operated with no recognized center forward - hell, not even really anyone competent enough to operate as a false 9. That's a huge handicap.
100% still with ETH. Already overcome massive issues at the club and had steadied the ship until the overpaid babies in the squad started to rock the boat again this season (nautical theme here). He will sort this mess too and should get the credit he deserves when he does.
Pretty much how I feel. EtH is obviously a good coach, and has already had to deal with some difficult situations. I still think he's our best bet of getting close to winning trophies regularly again.
It's just an incredibly difficult club to to work for at the moment, almost entirely because of the Glazers and their poor leadership. It's like he's got the ship sailing in the right direction, but it's got one sail, the anchor won't come up and parts keep falling off at the most inopportune time.
And people can go on about how he's spent '£400m' already as much as they like, but it's totally overlooking the state of the team when he got here. We were about to go into that season with McFred as our only senior CMs... also, how much does that get you anyway? Chelsea spent over £200m on two midfielders! £400m isn't even half a team nowadays, not if you're trying to build a team that can compete for the league and UCL.
EtH isn't infallible and there's plenty of decisions he's made that you can question, but it's frustrating when people completely remove context from a lot of these discussions.
Think city may go for him when pep decides to leave.
One that gets paid millions? And will earn more by being sacked rather than walking.
I'm really concerned of the way we still play. What exactly are we good at? We don't press well, we don't pass well, we don't defend deep well. What sort of the team is EtH building? Plenty of new managers seem to turn around the squad and get them to play well fairly quickly - Eddie Howe, Unai Emery, De Zerbi, Pochettino, Spurs manager etc.
I don't see him having much of an impact on the way we play in terms of "coaching", so in that regards I still have my doubts. Undoubtedly he has huge impact on our transfers, but it feels kind of weird to judge him solely on that. A lot will depend on how Mount and Hojlund fit into whatever football we want to play. So far the verdict is not great not terrible.
I was a huge supporter last season and I would take every excuse to defend ETH, but the idea of playing Bruno and Mount way ahead of Casemiro was always ridiculous to me and I have to admit I have some doubts now if he's "the one". Might be the case that this setup wasn't THE plan for this season but somehow I find it hard to believe. We did prioritise Mount transfer after all.
I think this season he has to prove he's actually a good coach that has a vision and can implement it effectively. In the end he got the players he wanted (apart from CB, but I'm not really fussed about it- this is a lot of bad luck and something completely out of ETH control). A lot will depend on our rivals, and it might be the case we don't get into top4 with some bad luck/bad results, but AT LEAST we have to see some improvement in the way we play.
It would be daft to ignore all the issues he's facing here, but even if we finished 5th but with clear performances/general play improvement I would say he should be backed for next season.
I was a huge supporter last season and I would take every excuse to defend ETH, but the idea of playing Bruno and Mount way ahead of Casemiro was always ridiculous to me and I have to admit I have some doubts now if he's "the one". Might be the case that this setup wasn't THE plan for this season but somehow I find it hard to believe. We did prioritise Mount transfer after all.
I think this season he has to prove he's actually a good coach that has a vision and can implement it effectively. In the end he got the players he wanted (apart from CB, but I'm not really fussed about it- this is a lot of bad luck and something completely out of ETH control). A lot will depend on our rivals, and it might be the case we don't get into top4 with some bad luck/bad results, but AT LEAST we have to see some improvement in the way we play.
It would be daft to ignore all the issues he's facing here, but even if we finished 5th but with clear performances/general play improvement I would say he should be backed for next season.
Last edited:
ETH has shown more than any other manager since SAF, however I do not like him calling players out in the press, I think the team were underprepared for the season and are only just getting some form, that is on him, I also think that the unsettled nature of the club at present isn't helping and he can do little about that.
There are definitely some cracks showing but if he turns it around like he did last season and we finish strongly within the top 4 and do okay in CL it will be progress, so for now he gets my vote still, I do wonder what will happen when he runs out of players that have played for him to sign though!
There are definitely some cracks showing but if he turns it around like he did last season and we finish strongly within the top 4 and do okay in CL it will be progress, so for now he gets my vote still, I do wonder what will happen when he runs out of players that have played for him to sign though!
Right now, there's no one really to replace him unless we can land De Zerbi. Although I think no one will really change unless we get serious DOF in charge, and remove the managers influence on transfers.
I can see him getting another year, but at this point I believe his inability to improve our play is his own failing.
I can see him getting another year, but at this point I believe his inability to improve our play is his own failing.
He’s a very good manager. Whether that means he will win major trophies with us is a totally different question.
I actually think things are on the slide already.
When I watch other teams they have a clear way of playing and even when lesser players come in through injuries or rotation whole team doesn't drop off a cliff.
For instance, Brighton lose Caicedo, Bissouma, Cucurella, Trossard and Sanchez and just keep going. Their performances at subsequent clubs indicate there is more going on at Brighton than individuals.
Bit of an emperors new clothes situation, fans have gone a bit quiet on the individual brilliance and patterns of play front that dominated this forum for years under Ole. Its now okay for us to play awful if Casemiro or Shaw are injured. We still are useless in possession and struggle to score other than on the counter.
We rely on individuals as much as ever and I don’t buy the ‘it takes time’ narrative - i dont see what we are trying to do week in week out. I see a team that cant use the ball so tries to ping long balls out wide or in behind and then defends crosses galore and looks wide open even against the likes of Wolves and Forest. For me its another placeholder though I would like to be proved wrong
When I watch other teams they have a clear way of playing and even when lesser players come in through injuries or rotation whole team doesn't drop off a cliff.
For instance, Brighton lose Caicedo, Bissouma, Cucurella, Trossard and Sanchez and just keep going. Their performances at subsequent clubs indicate there is more going on at Brighton than individuals.
Bit of an emperors new clothes situation, fans have gone a bit quiet on the individual brilliance and patterns of play front that dominated this forum for years under Ole. Its now okay for us to play awful if Casemiro or Shaw are injured. We still are useless in possession and struggle to score other than on the counter.
We rely on individuals as much as ever and I don’t buy the ‘it takes time’ narrative - i dont see what we are trying to do week in week out. I see a team that cant use the ball so tries to ping long balls out wide or in behind and then defends crosses galore and looks wide open even against the likes of Wolves and Forest. For me its another placeholder though I would like to be proved wrong
If we sack him who do we get? It hasn't progressed as expected but I'm totally on ten Hag's boat. He has proved with Ajax what he can implement on a team. We've seen how Arteta looked like a mess until it suddenly clicked.
Absolutely back him. Best manager we’ve had since Sir Alex. Given another year or two, think he will be challenging for titles.
Even this year, I feel we will perform much better than people expect.
Amrabat and Hojlund I feel will be our two most important signings and they’ve hardly kicked a ball for us yet.
Even this year, I feel we will perform much better than people expect.
Amrabat and Hojlund I feel will be our two most important signings and they’ve hardly kicked a ball for us yet.
People need to understand too that not everything works out given time.
It's the most well used phase on here give this player time, give the manager time, performances take time.
Sometimes time just makes the issue worse as it can be clear something isn't working.
It's the most well used phase on here give this player time, give the manager time, performances take time.
Sometimes time just makes the issue worse as it can be clear something isn't working.
Martial is in his eight season, Sancho in his third. Let's at least give ETH a few seasons to continue building something
I'm not particularly impressed with Ten Hag, but I'm more of a ETH "defender" than "criticizer" right now. I know that this club is doomed to never be successful again as long as that grotesque, pathologically greedy American family is in charge. It doesn't matter who the manager is. You could get Fergie, Klopp, Guardiola together as "managers", make them theoretically all combine their abilities, knowledge and charisma and this club would still fail under the Glazernomics, Woodward's Disneyland.
There is no footballing structure above Ten Hag to help him and protect him from his own weaknesses(making mistakes). No manager is perfect, everyone needs competence in management structure above him. Director of football, scouts, recruitment, negligence of academy and facilities - all of this stuff is completely shambolic and is reaching parody/satire levels and that's not of his fault.
Ten Hag's main weakness to me seems to be talent evaluation(scouting, recruitment). He's also a bit too stubborn, rigid for my liking, being too late to change some things when they obviously don't work, probably a bit too much pride in him. I don't think he's tactically incompetent. Considering the tough circumstances against Arsenal at the Emirates(available personnel, injuries, Arsenal being overall a better team right now with better players, unfortunately), he set up a nice game plan. Resembling De Zerbi's "artificial transition"(there is a video on Tifo which explain how Brighton play in detail). Bait the Arsenal press with slow build-up using Onana's brilliance on the ball, then beat the press and suddenly counterattack when open space appears. It almost worked. And we played with 10 men for most of the match - I don't count Martial as a professional footballer anymore, feel free to disagree if you want. He even had to play with Maguire and Evans as center backs in the end, I'm not even going to comment on that.
Regarding ETH's talent evaluation, I really have no idea what was he smoking when he thought that Antony is good enough to play in the PL, and Manchester United, nonetheless. Must be a consequence of a damn good weed in Amsterdam(Ajax). And he probably sensed what kind of potentially problematic character Antony is, taking into account his recent domestic abuse accusations. And he insisted on and brought him anyway for big money.
In conclusion, I'm not exactly sure if he's good enough to be "The Man" or just a temporary placeholder. He's obviously not the main problem with this club, we all know what/who that truly is. Because of this current, dragging sale, I think he could/will be the final victim of the Glazer Apocalypse, which could reach it's climax this season potentially and he might get sacked at the end of it because he fails to secure UCL football. Squad is still flawed, rivals have gotten stronger compared to last season(Liverpool and Tottenham mainly, even Chelsea) and there is an injury crisis.
One thing that really puzzled me is why he gave up on signing a "Frenkie de Jong archetype" of a player - press resistant, excellent dribbler and ball carrier who is comfortable receiving the ball in deeper areas of the pitch and dribbling out of pressure(press) and instead opted for a #10 in Mason Mount, after chasing FDJ so hard. FDJ is not the only player in the world that can do stuff like that(maybe he's just currently best at it). That's a real mystery to me, what changed in his plan, vision for this midfield, and the club in general.
I said long time ago that if the Glazer Tragedy/Apocalypse continues, Ten Hag will last 2-3 seasons and be sacked, like all the managers post-Fergie. That is a pattern that is relentless, probably unchangeable, unfortunately. Regardless of what happens with ownership, I think he deserves one more season after this one(3rd one), and then we can determine a more thorough, final verdict.
There is no footballing structure above Ten Hag to help him and protect him from his own weaknesses(making mistakes). No manager is perfect, everyone needs competence in management structure above him. Director of football, scouts, recruitment, negligence of academy and facilities - all of this stuff is completely shambolic and is reaching parody/satire levels and that's not of his fault.
Ten Hag's main weakness to me seems to be talent evaluation(scouting, recruitment). He's also a bit too stubborn, rigid for my liking, being too late to change some things when they obviously don't work, probably a bit too much pride in him. I don't think he's tactically incompetent. Considering the tough circumstances against Arsenal at the Emirates(available personnel, injuries, Arsenal being overall a better team right now with better players, unfortunately), he set up a nice game plan. Resembling De Zerbi's "artificial transition"(there is a video on Tifo which explain how Brighton play in detail). Bait the Arsenal press with slow build-up using Onana's brilliance on the ball, then beat the press and suddenly counterattack when open space appears. It almost worked. And we played with 10 men for most of the match - I don't count Martial as a professional footballer anymore, feel free to disagree if you want. He even had to play with Maguire and Evans as center backs in the end, I'm not even going to comment on that.
Regarding ETH's talent evaluation, I really have no idea what was he smoking when he thought that Antony is good enough to play in the PL, and Manchester United, nonetheless. Must be a consequence of a damn good weed in Amsterdam(Ajax). And he probably sensed what kind of potentially problematic character Antony is, taking into account his recent domestic abuse accusations. And he insisted on and brought him anyway for big money.
In conclusion, I'm not exactly sure if he's good enough to be "The Man" or just a temporary placeholder. He's obviously not the main problem with this club, we all know what/who that truly is. Because of this current, dragging sale, I think he could/will be the final victim of the Glazer Apocalypse, which could reach it's climax this season potentially and he might get sacked at the end of it because he fails to secure UCL football. Squad is still flawed, rivals have gotten stronger compared to last season(Liverpool and Tottenham mainly, even Chelsea) and there is an injury crisis.
One thing that really puzzled me is why he gave up on signing a "Frenkie de Jong archetype" of a player - press resistant, excellent dribbler and ball carrier who is comfortable receiving the ball in deeper areas of the pitch and dribbling out of pressure(press) and instead opted for a #10 in Mason Mount, after chasing FDJ so hard. FDJ is not the only player in the world that can do stuff like that(maybe he's just currently best at it). That's a real mystery to me, what changed in his plan, vision for this midfield, and the club in general.
I said long time ago that if the Glazer Tragedy/Apocalypse continues, Ten Hag will last 2-3 seasons and be sacked, like all the managers post-Fergie. That is a pattern that is relentless, probably unchangeable, unfortunately. Regardless of what happens with ownership, I think he deserves one more season after this one(3rd one), and then we can determine a more thorough, final verdict.
Last edited:
His work at Ajax shows that he has the ability to play beautiful football. EtH’s ability to grind out results makes it easier to be patient with him. I have faith he will get us to point where we play beautifully while also winning.
Back him. At Ajax he had his doubters first, even some of the players doubted him (for example Tadic), but by the end of his Ajax period every player was so positive about him and his coaching style. I really think we should stick to him after the eventual takeover and then give him another 1.5 year. So a full year after the takeover plus whatever happens in the second year.
People can pine for De Zerbi but he's managing one of the best run clubs, put him in the chaos at United and he'll struggle to do better than ten Hag.
Ten Hag looked a superstar at Ajax with Overmars running the show, after the two left Ajax became a shambles.
Klopp did marvellously at Liverpool when they were getting every transfer right, when that stopped they slipped down from title contenders to barely in the top 4.
Pep has had everything his way at City but if you took away that structure he would also struggle.
Ten Hag looked a superstar at Ajax with Overmars running the show, after the two left Ajax became a shambles.
Klopp did marvellously at Liverpool when they were getting every transfer right, when that stopped they slipped down from title contenders to barely in the top 4.
Pep has had everything his way at City but if you took away that structure he would also struggle.
Hard to say right now because there's so much noise around the club it's hard to reflect on reality.
For the majority of last season he seemed to have got a grip on the drama around the club and returned some authority to the manager's position within the club, after years of it being missing. Even the players he brought in seemed to reinforce that as they were die hard ten Hag men and/or professionals of the highest order.
Right now, the circus seems to be as big as ever and I'm not sure how he will handle it. I must stress that the circus is not down to him, mostly, but he could get swallowed up by it.
For the majority of last season he seemed to have got a grip on the drama around the club and returned some authority to the manager's position within the club, after years of it being missing. Even the players he brought in seemed to reinforce that as they were die hard ten Hag men and/or professionals of the highest order.
Right now, the circus seems to be as big as ever and I'm not sure how he will handle it. I must stress that the circus is not down to him, mostly, but he could get swallowed up by it.
He deserves time, I wouldn’t sack him even if he missed out on UCL this season. If after halfway through next season we are still rubbish then maybe I’d consider it.
It worried me at the time because it seemed that he was voicing doubts about the Chosen One.
Exposed in the transfer market. I’ve said it for 6 years now bring in a DoF. Get in Overmars or whatever it takes to make this a successful hire. Hag’s job is management of assets not acquisitions.
Arrrr. I 'as to agree with 'ee matey. If the cap'n has a crew of mutinous dogs on his hands, then give 'em a taste o' the cat. Otherwise, he'll be walking the plank come Christmas.
Does it?
Counter-attacking involves sitting back. We certainly don’t do that; he’s trying (with varying amounts of success) to get us playing on the front foot. Many people complain that we are “too open”.
He is ** insert neo gif**
Man got us playing like Everton and finished 7th with the squad of champions. Sacking him was perhaps the smartest thing we've done since SAF left.
Will have a firmer opinion at the end of this season.
If we finish in the CL places again and show signs of having improved our underlying performances on last season (i.e. goals, underlying stats, performances in big games, etc) then I'll be very confident he can continue improving from there.
If not, well...
Until then I'm basically onside pending sufficient information.
If we finish in the CL places again and show signs of having improved our underlying performances on last season (i.e. goals, underlying stats, performances in big games, etc) then I'll be very confident he can continue improving from there.
If not, well...
Until then I'm basically onside pending sufficient information.