And I agree but this stat is blown out of proportion and since he is no longer playing we can talk about con artists like Lindelof.Do you honestly believe the defence has been fixed after 4 games this season? Have you watched the so called clean sheet against Wolves? They just dont instill confidence and thats what the back 4 should do. We need at least 2 CBs alongside Varane
Is ten Hag still *the one* (for you) or another placeholder?
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I gave you a whole season and you’re giving me 4 games with injuries all over the place. Pointless discussion
Ok mate. 2 Quick goals against Forest and a 30 second Arsenal equaliser are something we should ignore because you gave me a last season stat and ETH is free of criticism. And the fact that with the Varane injury we have no squad depth in the CB position. Youre right it is pointless
Why are you ignoring an entire seasons worth of work for a couple of games? It’s also not his fault Maguire refused to leave.
Exactly my thoughts. Ange has gotten Spurs playing great football with one pre season and losing his star striker late in the window.
De Zerbi came in and got Brighton dominating games against 99% of the league.
Because they dont look like a safe defensive unit. They have one clean sheet that was lucky against Wolves. Look I hope youre right and the defence clicks but I just dont see it. Youre right its not his fault Maguire refused to leave (would we on his salary?) its his fault he didnt go for a CB in the transfer window while this set of CBs isnt good enough regardless of Maguire. And like I said earlier prehaps our new DM does a great job for us as he did for his country in the WC papering the cracks in the defence. We need to score 2-3 goals to have a go at top 4 because we are not winning many 1 0 this season
So it's Maguires fault that Ten Hag spent £80 million on Anthony, £60 million on Mount and £70 million on Højlund - rather than signing another defender ? And no I am not saying signing Mount and Højlund was wrong - but he spent the money the way he decided.
And it's not a couple of game - 4 games, and they have all looked awful. And what worries me the most, after 12 months, I sitll have no clue what kind of football he wants us to play.
Well he was right when he said “I don’t know what to do to get this side to win”
In support of him, it’s pretty clear that he was shocked at the threadbare behind-the-scenes operation at United, and told Woodward so. The fact that the latter didn’t respond adequately has hampered subsequent managers ever since.
True.
Don't get me wrong, he was the wrong appointment but the overreaction to things like him saying 'Liverpool are playing better than us and are favourites' was silly.
Nope, he was the wrong manager but he was right in what he said on those two occasions. City's performance level was something we should have been aiming to achieve and Liverpool were favourites. Some of our supporters were too arrogant to accept anyone saying it though.
We were a right mess and somehow still are. I agree that we should be further ahead but there is so much wrong at this club it is hard to get beyond that it seems
I’ve agreed to all your points up till Maguire refusing to leave. That has no bearing on our club being poor planners+manager losing grip on a potential problem area.
With or without Maguire leaving we should have addressed that hole. We have to stop selling players before upgrading.
It was in relation to our defensive depth. Our second CB pairing should be Lindelof and Pavard or Todibo, although any club’s defensive depth would come into question with 4 injuries
There’s not a single manager out there that could fix all of our problems on his own, but that’s what the glazers, and therefore the fans are essentially hoping for, and the second anything goes wrong… “oh, he’s not good enough, get rid and try someone else.. what a fraud!”
none of them can succeed until there is fundamental change at the very top of the club
none of them can succeed until there is fundamental change at the very top of the club
I just worry that the malaise we’ve been in since the League Cup final will continue as he looks to have zero clue how to sort that out and has even less of an idea how to sort the frankly ridiculous away form.
He earned a lot of goodwill and grace thanks to the shambles he inherited but that doesn’t really help when you look at the likes of Postecoglu instantly implementing a play style on another team in shambles. We still look exactly like we did under Ole and we’re still the moments FC we’ve been since Jose took over.
He earned a lot of goodwill and grace thanks to the shambles he inherited but that doesn’t really help when you look at the likes of Postecoglu instantly implementing a play style on another team in shambles. We still look exactly like we did under Ole and we’re still the moments FC we’ve been since Jose took over.
The jury is still out for me.
All my eggs are in Ten Hag’s basket. He’s not going to do everything right, but I believe he can see the mistakes and knows how to deal with them.
He’s handicapped by the fact the club has been run like a commercial venture and not a football club. The best move the hierarchy have done in the past decade is provide a football person some power in Murtough. I‘m not sure whether Murtough is good enough for this level but it’s a start. A lot of the changes we’ve made to modernise everything is still fairly recent like data analysts who help identify transfer targets. I can’t imagine something like that gets to its full potential in 18 months or so. The club is playing catch-up still.
In some ways I don’t blame him that he overrules transfer targets. I’m sure as feck not trusting the in-house team who thought AWB was the best obtainable right back across 800 options or thought Fred was worth £50m. Our scouting team has been shocking because the Glazers are so passive and don’t give a feck. A properly run club dump them much sooner than we did.
In some ways I don’t blame him that he overrules transfer targets. I’m sure as feck not trusting the in-house team who thought AWB was the best obtainable right back across 800 options or thought Fred was worth £50m. Our scouting team has been shocking because the Glazers are so passive and don’t give a feck. A properly run club dump them much sooner than we did.
I like him but i can't see us challenging for a title anytime soon unless we get new owners. It's a good squad and a top 4 team but it looks so far away from being an elite title winning team. It kind of reminds me of the post Invincibles Arsenal in some ways, and god is that a depressing thought.
I don’t disagree. Just saying we didn’t have to sell Maguire or any player to bring in an upgrade.
I'm still on board with 10 and see no reason to begin making preparations for a sacking. The gale force winds against him are unbelievable and yet he accomplished what he did last season.
And let's be a bit honest. Although we've been rather shit so far this season, we were actually very much in the two matches we lost. Had Rashford and Bruno put away their glorious chances in the first half, game over. Had Garnacho not been wrongly called offside and had we gotten the stonewall pen (Gabriel v Hojlund), game over. Those things didn't happen and thus we lost those two matches, but we were on the cusp of wins in both of those matches which would have had us on 12 points from the 12 points on offer.
So it's not as though we're on life support and need to start unwrapping the sack for a Christmas reveal...at least not yet.
And let's be a bit honest. Although we've been rather shit so far this season, we were actually very much in the two matches we lost. Had Rashford and Bruno put away their glorious chances in the first half, game over. Had Garnacho not been wrongly called offside and had we gotten the stonewall pen (Gabriel v Hojlund), game over. Those things didn't happen and thus we lost those two matches, but we were on the cusp of wins in both of those matches which would have had us on 12 points from the 12 points on offer.
So it's not as though we're on life support and need to start unwrapping the sack for a Christmas reveal...at least not yet.
It is indeed more than 4 games, preseason and April and May were also poor in general. ETH seems very overrated to me. It was obvious that Casemiro's legs were gone in April and a defensively strong 8 should have been signed instead of Mount. I also fail to recognize what kind of football he wants us to play. I can see us finishing 5-7th.
After spending nearly half a billion pounds on new players, I’m not seeing a massive amount of improvement on the mess that Ole and RR left behind.
We still look untrained, unfit and mentally weak.
We still look untrained, unfit and mentally weak.
I think all the tactical experts lauding Ten Hag when he came and the plaudits were overly so on hsi first season and I think he has made msitakes n a very difficult period, have always felt my judgement oudl come after two seasons.
But the negativity and people turning after four games s a bit nuts, especially things like the Spurs manager has already mended them in a pre-season and four games, come on now! It is way too early to judge this season so far and the criticism may come true, but in defence of Ten Hag and this isnt from an avid fan of his:
1) Our possible best starting eleven, five of the players have missed games so far
2) A super tight offside decision away from 3 wins from our firs four games, would have been a decent start
3) He has already had lots of off field problems with Greenwood, Sancho and now Antony
4) Failure to sell players and others not wanting to elave may have hampered the full wndow he wshed to do
It has been a really testing start but we are in pretty much the same position as we were at ths pont last season, where we finished 3rd, so it is too erly to be all doom and gloom...however, judging on his time so far
1st window: He spent £80m on Antony, £70m on a cm over the age of 30 and made a free transfer that will I feel not go on beyong this season. Of course Antony may still come good, I dont think he has been that bad so far this season, Casemeiro wa always a how long will he last as if he is here at a top level for 3/4seasons it is a decent deal, he as supern last year for the first half of the season and hopefully midfield reinforcements he improves again.
There was all this alk of him improving players last year but I am not sure that is so true, Shaw continued levels he had been getting to for a season or two before, Rashford still played the same way he just had a massive purple patch of form, DAlot hasnt really improved....Bissaka is the only one I think has been improved as a player....most of the duds.....are still duds.
I am not sure the quality of the football or tactics significantly improved either personally. We were obviously going to improve on the season ebfore, but s it any better than other seasons under previous managers, what imprvoed was having two really good players added in Casemeiro and Martinez in problem areas. This window is similar, I hink in Hoijlund and Onana he has made two good signings, both younger which is good, but still to sure the other signings were that great, especially Mount.
The biggest mistake though was his failure whether out of his control or not to sign another centre back. For me that was actually a big squad priority. I see a few posts above a couple of people arguing about our success defensively last season and us having good stats but looking dreadful so far this season.......reasons simple for me Varane and Martinez played together a lot last season....as soon as they didnt we started leaking more goals and dropping points, its no coincidence....both Lindelof and Magurie are not good enough. People rightly bemoan Maguire not going, but Lindelof has a year left on his contract....I would happily have sold him personally as well for a replacement
But the negativity and people turning after four games s a bit nuts, especially things like the Spurs manager has already mended them in a pre-season and four games, come on now! It is way too early to judge this season so far and the criticism may come true, but in defence of Ten Hag and this isnt from an avid fan of his:
1) Our possible best starting eleven, five of the players have missed games so far
2) A super tight offside decision away from 3 wins from our firs four games, would have been a decent start
3) He has already had lots of off field problems with Greenwood, Sancho and now Antony
4) Failure to sell players and others not wanting to elave may have hampered the full wndow he wshed to do
It has been a really testing start but we are in pretty much the same position as we were at ths pont last season, where we finished 3rd, so it is too erly to be all doom and gloom...however, judging on his time so far
1st window: He spent £80m on Antony, £70m on a cm over the age of 30 and made a free transfer that will I feel not go on beyong this season. Of course Antony may still come good, I dont think he has been that bad so far this season, Casemeiro wa always a how long will he last as if he is here at a top level for 3/4seasons it is a decent deal, he as supern last year for the first half of the season and hopefully midfield reinforcements he improves again.
There was all this alk of him improving players last year but I am not sure that is so true, Shaw continued levels he had been getting to for a season or two before, Rashford still played the same way he just had a massive purple patch of form, DAlot hasnt really improved....Bissaka is the only one I think has been improved as a player....most of the duds.....are still duds.
I am not sure the quality of the football or tactics significantly improved either personally. We were obviously going to improve on the season ebfore, but s it any better than other seasons under previous managers, what imprvoed was having two really good players added in Casemeiro and Martinez in problem areas. This window is similar, I hink in Hoijlund and Onana he has made two good signings, both younger which is good, but still to sure the other signings were that great, especially Mount.
The biggest mistake though was his failure whether out of his control or not to sign another centre back. For me that was actually a big squad priority. I see a few posts above a couple of people arguing about our success defensively last season and us having good stats but looking dreadful so far this season.......reasons simple for me Varane and Martinez played together a lot last season....as soon as they didnt we started leaking more goals and dropping points, its no coincidence....both Lindelof and Magurie are not good enough. People rightly bemoan Maguire not going, but Lindelof has a year left on his contract....I would happily have sold him personally as well for a replacement
I believe it's credible to back the manager until the circumstances become so dire that the downside has more gravity than the upside. ETH hasn't reached that point and given such a promising first season fans ought to be zealous in having some optimism with the managers capabilities on the basis of what he's shown.
However, this is ETH second season in one of the most competitive leagues in Europe. The notion that he's the one is far too early of a judgement to make even if United won every game this season. The problem with football fans and even the mainstream media is that the judgement is cast far too early in proceedings especially considering how quickly the pendulum swings in the sport.
After a run of a few wins last season the media started talking about ETH resorting the club to its former glory, once again a very premature judgement. Interview with Henry saying that he felt ETH was a genius and that he deliberated with Barcelona higher ups to sign him before Koeman. Similar instance with Rio after a few months in with Ole knocking out PSG. Different scenarios but the same principle. I think it's palatable to only assess if someone is the one either visually (blowing apart opposition consistently which seldom happens) or atleast after 36 months if the trajectory of the team is going forward at a high level (not European qualification).
These questions are still unanswered for me but I think ETH is undoubtedly a good manager with the potential to be a great one depending on how things pan out over the next few months / year.
However, this is ETH second season in one of the most competitive leagues in Europe. The notion that he's the one is far too early of a judgement to make even if United won every game this season. The problem with football fans and even the mainstream media is that the judgement is cast far too early in proceedings especially considering how quickly the pendulum swings in the sport.
After a run of a few wins last season the media started talking about ETH resorting the club to its former glory, once again a very premature judgement. Interview with Henry saying that he felt ETH was a genius and that he deliberated with Barcelona higher ups to sign him before Koeman. Similar instance with Rio after a few months in with Ole knocking out PSG. Different scenarios but the same principle. I think it's palatable to only assess if someone is the one either visually (blowing apart opposition consistently which seldom happens) or atleast after 36 months if the trajectory of the team is going forward at a high level (not European qualification).
These questions are still unanswered for me but I think ETH is undoubtedly a good manager with the potential to be a great one depending on how things pan out over the next few months / year.
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We should have stuck by Moyes. We could have won our first trophy in the post SAF era last season.
He is not perfect as there are other better managers around in the league, but when think of the previous managers we had (Ragnick, Ole, Mourinho, LVG, Moyes), I think I will be fully behind him.
He’s grand. The club is just impossible to manage.
True.
Don't get me wrong, he was the wrong appointment but the overreaction to things like him saying 'Liverpool are playing better than us and are favourites' was silly.
Nope, he was the wrong manager but he was right in what he said on those two occasions. City's performance level was something we should have been aiming to achieve and Liverpool were favourites. Some of our supporters were too arrogant to accept anyone saying it though.
His job was to prepare the team to beat anyone. At least in a one-off match. At least in derbies. At least he could try to get a flecking 4-4 to scupper the title chances for one of them? But no. He was just preparing excuses in advance. We weren't even road bumps for those two.
Plus, not once in our pomp did we turn up to Anfield believing we were favorites for that game the way Liverpool (and evidently, Moyes) approached that game. There's a reason the cliche "form goes out the window" exists. We won there several times under SAF precisely because we knew it would be a grind and we were ready for it. I mean, can you imagine Benitez saying in the press that we were the favorites at Anfield and that they should aspire to play like us or Chelsea or whomever was at the top during his years?
Sadly, a decade of mediocrity has desensitized many of us to this sort of humiliation.
At this moment, i just dont see why fans are against managers after a few games in the seasons. In honestly speaking, there is no any managers in this world that can help United be good again with the owner we have. After 10 years and different types and caliber of managers, we fans should see that we are not run properly as a football club from the tops down. We lack the structures from top to help the managers and most decisions have to go through the owner before its implemented. And, we saw that most decisions are taking too long to decide and always miss the timing and thus render our seasons in someways.
If we decide to sack EtH mid season then we'll just continue what we have been doing the past 10 years. Fans have right now to be realistic that we cannot compete with City and even Arsenal because of our owner and after 10 years of mismanagment and billions wasted on bad buys and sales, we see the result of it now. City got treble and still spend more that us, Arsenal finnaly getting their owner to start spending money (their owner have serious money, really) and yet, we are hampered by the FFP that every other clubs are not. The problems are deeper than just the mananger and if you go and get Ange, or De Zerbi then it is going to be the same, manager can only do so much, but whennyou have all the mess we see the past years in this club then it bordeline impossible to fix.
If we decide to sack EtH mid season then we'll just continue what we have been doing the past 10 years. Fans have right now to be realistic that we cannot compete with City and even Arsenal because of our owner and after 10 years of mismanagment and billions wasted on bad buys and sales, we see the result of it now. City got treble and still spend more that us, Arsenal finnaly getting their owner to start spending money (their owner have serious money, really) and yet, we are hampered by the FFP that every other clubs are not. The problems are deeper than just the mananger and if you go and get Ange, or De Zerbi then it is going to be the same, manager can only do so much, but whennyou have all the mess we see the past years in this club then it bordeline impossible to fix.
I still find it wierd people think transfers are like football manager. You think EtH alone decides who we sign? Further more you think he is the one doing the deals and deciding how much we buy them for?
He is a great manager. Performed miracles last year in a toxic environment, reshaping the squad, has a really clear plan and has brought in new players to suit the plan.
Guys, we are 4 games in to the season, three of his first choice defenders are crocked, Mainoo who looks like a superstar midfielder has been injured and he needs to be people in. If we are in the top 5 or 6 by October then we are on course for a very good season.
Dont believe the media haters, united are the biggest story in town for clicks. Im not saying its all been great but ETH is 100% the right guy and we should be acting like supporters, not jumping on negativity all the time
Guys, we are 4 games in to the season, three of his first choice defenders are crocked, Mainoo who looks like a superstar midfielder has been injured and he needs to be people in. If we are in the top 5 or 6 by October then we are on course for a very good season.
Dont believe the media haters, united are the biggest story in town for clicks. Im not saying its all been great but ETH is 100% the right guy and we should be acting like supporters, not jumping on negativity all the time
We're a few games into his second season. It's too early to tell. By the end of this season things should be clear.
I see him as a placeholder, this aura of certainty I had of him is definitely gone. However our club is impossible to manage considering the situation with the owners so when/if his sacking happens, he won't be 100% responsible
I don't understand this certainty that Garnacho's goal would have been the winner, didn't we concede a goal 110s after scoring in that same game ? What makes us so sure we would have held on this time, specially away from home ?
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That's exactly where I am too. The expectation has been replaced with hope.
Yes, the big picture failings of the club are not his fault. But things like making sure the team stays focussed after scoring, ensuring better cohesion against bottom teams at home, spotting repeated opposition tactics at corners and responding etc. are things we should be able to demand from him at this point.
Without reading the thread, dunno how this is even up for debate.
Would Ten Hag win titles/trophies at city, Liverpool or Arsenal? Yes.
Therefore he's not the problem, the structure around the club is and it starts at the very top and trickles down.
Would Ten Hag win titles/trophies at city, Liverpool or Arsenal? Yes.
Therefore he's not the problem, the structure around the club is and it starts at the very top and trickles down.
The jury is still out but I'm starting to lose patience with him.
I can't see him being replaced any time soon though.
I can't see him being replaced any time soon though.
Why are you so confident of that? Ten Hag did a decent job last year and the club seems to be in a perpetual state of turmoil these days that we can't expect much more, but at the same time he's done nothing to suggest that he's a title-winning capable manager. I find some of the praise bizarrely over the top sometimes.
Of course Ten Hag is still the best option for us....He´s had to deal with the Ronaldo outburst, Greenwood farce, Sancho and now Anthony. He won a trophy in his first year and got us back into the CL. On top of that he´s got rid of to name a few Fred,Henderson,Telles,Bailly, De Gea, Jones, Elanga, Pereira, Garner, Chong, Lingard,Matic,Mata,Pogba,Cavani and Ronaldo. Most of his buy´s have turned out well but the jury is still out on some of them. We also know that there are players still at the club that will not be a part of the future in Maguire, Van de Beek,Martial, Sancho and now perhaps Antony also. The level of change in playing staff has been huge and we are still far away from having a squad that needs only fine tuning in the summer window.
On top of that he´s had to deal with the huge shadow hanging over Old Trafford in this bloody sale process not being resolved in any way. It must have an effect on the manager and I wonder if he perhaps will have enough of this bullshit soon.
On top of that he´s had to deal with the huge shadow hanging over Old Trafford in this bloody sale process not being resolved in any way. It must have an effect on the manager and I wonder if he perhaps will have enough of this bullshit soon.
Yes he’s the one. He tackles issues head on.
sancho has been a problem since we signed him. Yes at first there was an excuse as it’s a big step up and he was still only 21, but in his third season what’s the excuse? Him dropping him and publicly being honest about it is a move only some managers would make. It’s risky and brave and could cause a shit show as it has. It’s also stopped protecting sancho at this moment and it’s on him now. You gonna step up? Or is ETH right? Which one is it. it’s out there for everyone to see. If you’re not good enough, you don’t get picked.
wether he gets another game for a while under ETH is another matter.
sancho has been a problem since we signed him. Yes at first there was an excuse as it’s a big step up and he was still only 21, but in his third season what’s the excuse? Him dropping him and publicly being honest about it is a move only some managers would make. It’s risky and brave and could cause a shit show as it has. It’s also stopped protecting sancho at this moment and it’s on him now. You gonna step up? Or is ETH right? Which one is it. it’s out there for everyone to see. If you’re not good enough, you don’t get picked.
wether he gets another game for a while under ETH is another matter.
I’m seeing a lot of negativity here but just know that if he decides to leave (more likely than us sacking him) the only way is down.
I keep on seeing this 400m crap. Well off those 400m , 170m worth players were bought this summer. And off that 1 of them has just played 25 mins and other just 2 games and the keeper just 4 games. Give the signings some time before judging