Is Steven Gerrard a top 5 all time PL CM

predator said:
Probably the best if you ask me and that's hard to say as a united fan and him being a scouser.

He had shooting as good as lampard, passing as good as Scholes and could tackle as good as any defensive mid. He was fast aswell.

Then take into accounts his overall leadership and ability to raise the game of his teammates.

Many won't agree I'm sure. I've had this discussion loads of times with united fans and City fans and rarely do people agree but I think he is.
Some guy in didsbury a few weeks ago actually said to me Gerrard isn't as good as Lampard or Scholes because he never won the league. I mentioned that Nicky Butt won it 6 times but that doesn't make him a better player because of that.

As a footballer, Gerrard had everything.

In my opinion of course.
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His passing and ability to control a game was nothing like Scholes, he was too Roy of the rovers for a central midfield, hence why his best performances came under Rafa where he had Javier and Alonso behind him. He was a cracking player though.
 
JPRouve said:
At last someone said it. :cool:

Also Xabi Alonso and Mascherano were both better than Gerrard at the CM position. Gerrard is probably the best attacking midfielder though, he could break a game like few could but game control generally slipped away from his feet.
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How? Mascherano and Alonso we’re both DMs, they both didn’t play as CM at the peak of their careers if were using the logic that Gerrard is solely an AM?
 
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Scholes
Keane
Vieira
Gerrard
Lampard

There were better midfielders than Gerrard, I'd say Alonso for sure. But his longevity and status at Liverpool makes him top 5 for me.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
Kind of like Bruno now :(
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No the bigger comparison is De Bruyne, Gerrard passing accuracy rarely dropped below 80%, De Bruyne at one point had the most possessions wasted due to his penchant for a creative pass. ,
 
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El Jefe said:
You can never really get an honest opinion on Gerrard on here so not too surprised on some of the nonsense posted so far.

While the AM role was far more suited to his strengths, he was a top class CM in the PL too. Gerrard was a pure CM until 2005/06 under Rafa and was already a world class player by then as a central midfielder. He just took it up to a whole new level when he was pushed further up and had two sitting midfielders behind him.

As a pure CM a young Gerrard was already giving Keane, Viera, Scholes and Keane a run for their money. People love reeling out the quotes about other players but forget our own SAF had this to say about Gerrard when he was a midfielder.

"If you were looking for the player you would replace Keane with, it's Gerrard, without question, He has become the most influential player in England, bar none. Not that Vieira lacks anything, but I think that Gerrard does more for his team than Vieira does. To me, Gerrard is Keane; he is now where Keane was when Roy came to us in 1994. I've watched him quite a lot, and everywhere the ball is, he seems to be there.
He's got that unbelievable engine, desire, determination. Anyone would take Gerrard.
Vieira has done that job for Arsenal for two or three years. But you can see Gerrard rising and rising." - Sir Alex Ferguson on Gerrard the CM

Gerrard is as good as any midfielder that's played in this league. I get downplaying him because he's a scouse cnut but he really was a wonderful player.

Last point, a lot is often made of his hollywood passes and whilst I do agree he had a penchant for attempting the extravagant a bit too often, he was simply capable of passes only KDB could pull off.

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Exactly he was already a world class player 03-05 playing as a CM
 
harms said:
You can argue that he was a better all-round midfielder than Scholes (I wouldn’t Agee but it’s certainly something g that deserves an argument) but his passing was nowhere near as good as Scholes’.

If you want to compare him to a United player, it would be Bruno — high risk, high reward.
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No Bruno doesn’t have the range he does in his passing, Gerrard could play passes Bruno simply can’t, long short and medium plus tackle, plus was dynamic enough to play right mid and actually excel, dynamic and quick enough to play as a right back, Bruno is actually a far harder player to fit into a team, as we see now, his lack of dynamism and pace means he couldn’t play as a DM right mid or even in a three man midfield like Gerrrard did for the most of his career, it’s simply a lazy comparison to make.

Bruno isn’t the only ‘high risk‘ player around De Bruyne is one also but for some reason doesn’t get the connotations Gerrard does probably due to him playing under Pep.
 
Berbasbullet said:
His passing and ability to control a game was nothing like Scholes, he was too Roy of the rovers for a central midfield, hence why his best performances came under Rafa where he had Javier and Alonso behind him. He was a cracking player though.
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His passing was close to Scholes, what Scholes had was a better reading of the game, and a better controller, but Gerrard could make any pass Scholes could and vice versa, the other stuff is due to game intelligence and really nature, Scholes never had the dynamism that Gerrard had so was sort of forced to accommodate for it in other ways, its no coincidence that the best controllers in the history of the game tend to be players like Busquets as opposed to physical forces of nature.

A player with Gerrard dynamism and Scholes tactical nous is otherworldly and I think Toure comes closest to ticking those boxes, yet at the other end doesn’t have the stamina and workrate at times to truly leave imprints on game which someone like Gerrard did or more appropriately Keane did. Basically you can’t have it all, neither of these players mentioned did, they all had strengths were they were better than others and weaknesses that others didn’t have.
 
harms said:
You can argue that he was a better all-round midfielder than Scholes (I wouldn’t Agee but it’s certainly something g that deserves an argument) but his passing was nowhere near as good as Scholes’.

If you want to compare him to a United player, it would be Bruno — high risk, high reward.
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Gerrard for his whole career was probably better than Scholes as people forget Paul was more a AM and was even dropped in certain big games.
But as Scholes aged and went back in CM/CDM he really showcased his talent. His movement to find 5 yards and his passing from deep was far superior to Gerrard’s passing
 
Scholes, Keane, Lampard, Toure, Kanté
 
Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Vieira, Keane, would be the top 5 for me in no particular order.

I kind of wonder if Gerrard had ended up joining us like he wanted until he got those death threats, how would he have been rated then in hindsight
 
RobinLFC said:
Not that I watched a lot of him so could be wrong, but I always thought Vieira was a CDM instead of a true CM? In that case people should disregard him from the discussion as well if they argue against Gerrard being a proper CM (which he indeed wasn't). Gerrard was a lot more KDB than Keane or Scholes, the only full season I can remember him in a deep-lying midfield position is probably 13/14 during which he was good but of course nothing like the player he was between 05-09.
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The Vieira I remember was always an 8/box-to-box type over a DM and almost always had a proper DM mopping up while Vieira et al pushed forward.
 
predator said:
Probably the best if you ask me and that's hard to say as a united fan and him being a scouser.

He had shooting as good as lampard, passing as good as Scholes and could tackle as good as any defensive mid. He was fast aswell.

Then take into accounts his overall leadership and ability to raise the game of his teammates.

Many won't agree I'm sure. I've had this discussion loads of times with united fans and City fans and rarely do people agree but I think he is.
Some guy in didsbury a few weeks ago actually said to me Gerrard isn't as good as Lampard or Scholes because he never won the league. I mentioned that Nicky Butt won it 6 times but that doesn't make him a better player because of that.

As a footballer, Gerrard had everything.

In my opinion of course.
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:lol:
 
Gerrard was a very good midfielder but he wasn't top 5 to ever play in the Premier League. Close though.
 
Green_Red said:
Gerrard was a very good midfielder but he wasn't top 5 to ever play in the Premier League. Close though.
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Depending on what you are judging him on no?

I find this forum gets off on trophies won, which for me is more how you should be rating the team, not the individual, it's why Kane gets rated so poorly on here, and to an extent, Shearer, but I digress. You cannot go past Lampard as a top 5 midfielder if you are looking at the trophy cabinet. Lampard won three Premier League titles, the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Europa League, four FA Cups, and two Football League Cups.

I guess it is why Toure doesnt get more love on here, he never won a CL trophy.
 
It’s difficult to say. He was an excellent midfielder but if I had to pick it would be like this:

Definitely in top 5:
Keane
Vieira
Scholes

For the other 2 slots it can easily be anyone from:
Carrick
Gerard
Lampard
Fabregas
Kante
 
There have been a lot of great midfielders in the premier league. He's in contention for a top 5 spot but its difficult to select 5 from:

Keane
Scholes
Viera
Silva
De Bryune
Fábregas
Touré
Gerrard
Lámpard

It's easier to do a top 10 list and include them all.
 
"you never get honest opinion on Gerrard here" "it's caf, so Gerrard is underrated" talk about patting yourselves on the back posts :lol:. Everyone thinks they are unbiased and objective.

Anyways it's very close. Keane Vieira, Scholes makes top 3 CMs, then you can pick any from Gerrard, Lampard, Yaya, Fabregas and few others.

If it's Gerrard vs Lampard, I will take Gerrard for my team.
 
From when I started watching, my top 5 are:

Scholes
Cesc
KDB
Gerrard/Essien (tie)
Alonso

In no particular order. Didn’t watch too much of Keane or Viera, started watching at the tail end of their careers. Lampard was hardly a CM and didn’t have as much to his game as others on my list, though he was very good. Toure was immense for city tbh and could easily have made the list.

I know I cheated a bit because technically I put 6 people down but there was no way for me to not put all 6 names down. Essien I think was the most underrated midfielder in recent times; he could do it all.
 
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Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
No more love for Yaya? I mean, the guy was a killer. Literally ran over and through teams. Physically unmatched, quick, strong, unreal tekkers, goals, assists, just a brutal opponent.

Yet, no one picking him.
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Yaya was an Eden Hazard of CM. Had almost every thing in his locker but lacked the drive to be the best footballer.
100% PK conversation rate, excellent free-kick taker, but didn't push the be #1 taker, except one or two season.
 
El Jefe said:
You can never really get an honest opinion on Gerrard on here so not too surprised on some of the nonsense posted so far.

While the AM role was far more suited to his strengths, he was a top class CM in the PL too. Gerrard was a pure CM until 2005/06 under Rafa and was already a world class player by then as a central midfielder. He just took it up to a whole new level when he was pushed further up and had two sitting midfielders behind him.

As a pure CM a young Gerrard was already giving Keane, Viera, Scholes and Keane a run for their money. People love reeling out the quotes about other players but forget our own SAF had this to say about Gerrard when he was a midfielder.

"If you were looking for the player you would replace Keane with, it's Gerrard, without question, He has become the most influential player in England, bar none. Not that Vieira lacks anything, but I think that Gerrard does more for his team than Vieira does. To me, Gerrard is Keane; he is now where Keane was when Roy came to us in 1994. I've watched him quite a lot, and everywhere the ball is, he seems to be there.
He's got that unbelievable engine, desire, determination. Anyone would take Gerrard.
Vieira has done that job for Arsenal for two or three years. But you can see Gerrard rising and rising." - Sir Alex Ferguson on Gerrard the CM

Gerrard is as good as any midfielder that's played in this league. I get downplaying him because he's a scouse cnut but he really was a wonderful player.

Last point, a lot is often made of his hollywood passes and whilst I do agree he had a penchant for attempting the extravagant a bit too often, he was simply capable of passes only KDB could pull off.

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Torres was absolutely lethal. Still remember him giving us nightmares
 
Maybe we should start with who were the top 5 in the 90s, 00s, and 10s until now.

Not seeing many names from the 90s. Or anyone from City though they've dominated midfield in the EPL for years now.
 
harms said:
You can argue that he was a better all-round midfielder than Scholes (I wouldn’t Agee but it’s certainly something g that deserves an argument) but his passing was nowhere near as good as Scholes’.

If you want to compare him to a United player, it would be Bruno — high risk, high reward.
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I think if you break down their respective passing abilities, there are areas where Scholes is superior and others where Gerrard is better. Scholes had a more consistent switch of play and, instinctively, was better at the short give-and-go stuff. Gerrard looked stronger to me in opening up a defence, such as by a raking through ball, and could bend it round a defence, particularly from wider areas, to greater effect.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
Bit of a needless reaction to a fairly reasonable opinion.

I don't think Gerrard would get into a top four PL side at the moment. The game has moved on. Great player in his era but his era is over now.
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I remember when I did my FA level 2 course and we were having a discussion with the tutor and someone laughed when he made he mentioned Lampard and Maradona in the same sentence. The tutor stopped and said "what, are you saying someone who has played over 100 times for England, 600 PL appearances, 200+ goals and countless titles isn't a great player?" Room went silent before he continued

You can say the exact same for Gerard and you're saying he wouldn't get in a top 4 team is a joke. Neither would Sir Bobby / Dunc / Best because it's a different era and the game is moved on right????
 
If we had Gerrard in our current midfield it would be an absolute cheat mode.
 
El Jefe said:
You can never really get an honest opinion on Gerrard on here so not too surprised on some of the nonsense posted so far.

While the AM role was far more suited to his strengths, he was a top class CM in the PL too. Gerrard was a pure CM until 2005/06 under Rafa and was already a world class player by then as a central midfielder. He just took it up to a whole new level when he was pushed further up and had two sitting midfielders behind him.

As a pure CM a young Gerrard was already giving Keane, Viera, Scholes and Keane a run for their money. People love reeling out the quotes about other players but forget our own SAF had this to say about Gerrard when he was a midfielder.

"If you were looking for the player you would replace Keane with, it's Gerrard, without question, He has become the most influential player in England, bar none. Not that Vieira lacks anything, but I think that Gerrard does more for his team than Vieira does. To me, Gerrard is Keane; he is now where Keane was when Roy came to us in 1994. I've watched him quite a lot, and everywhere the ball is, he seems to be there.
He's got that unbelievable engine, desire, determination. Anyone would take Gerrard.
Vieira has done that job for Arsenal for two or three years. But you can see Gerrard rising and rising." - Sir Alex Ferguson on Gerrard the CM

Gerrard is as good as any midfielder that's played in this league. I get downplaying him because he's a scouse cnut but he really was a wonderful player.

Last point, a lot is often made of his hollywood passes and whilst I do agree he had a penchant for attempting the extravagant a bit too often, he was simply capable of passes only KDB could pull off.

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No this part was a Fergie dig at Viera and Arsenal, that's as plain as day. He was being generous but let's not carried away plucking random quotes out.
 
El Jefe said:
You can never really get an honest opinion on Gerrard on here so not too surprised on some of the nonsense posted so far.

While the AM role was far more suited to his strengths, he was a top class CM in the PL too. Gerrard was a pure CM until 2005/06 under Rafa and was already a world class player by then as a central midfielder. He just took it up to a whole new level when he was pushed further up and had two sitting midfielders behind him.

As a pure CM a young Gerrard was already giving Keane, Viera, Scholes and Keane a run for their money. People love reeling out the quotes about other players but forget our own SAF had this to say about Gerrard when he was a midfielder.

"If you were looking for the player you would replace Keane with, it's Gerrard, without question, He has become the most influential player in England, bar none. Not that Vieira lacks anything, but I think that Gerrard does more for his team than Vieira does. To me, Gerrard is Keane; he is now where Keane was when Roy came to us in 1994. I've watched him quite a lot, and everywhere the ball is, he seems to be there.
He's got that unbelievable engine, desire, determination. Anyone would take Gerrard.
Vieira has done that job for Arsenal for two or three years. But you can see Gerrard rising and rising." - Sir Alex Ferguson on Gerrard the CM

Gerrard is as good as any midfielder that's played in this league. I get downplaying him because he's a scouse cnut but he really was a wonderful player.

Last point, a lot is often made of his hollywood passes and whilst I do agree he had a penchant for attempting the extravagant a bit too often, he was simply capable of passes only KDB could pull off.

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In his autobiography, Fergie also said "I'm one of the few who didn't think Gerrard was a top top player".

There's a difference between identifying someone who had the raw material to develop into a top class midfield player and acknowledging that they actually developed into one.

Keane developed the ability to control games while at United and it was by a long way his greatest strength and why he was one of the most influential players in Premier League history.

Gerrard was a fantastically talented player but played his entire career like the biggest kid on the playground.
 
adexkola said:
Who else is in contention?

Fabregas
Speed
Carrick
Alonso
Butt (he was great feck off)
Essien? (Too short of a prime?)
Fernandinho
Silva?
Makelele
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Does KDB get included as pep deploys him in number of positions but plays in CM a lot
Toure hd a coupe of great seasons
I stick Modric in the mix for sure
 
What’s the metric here? Are we including their performances in other competitions or just the PL? Is longevity a factor? Obviously the glaring omission for Gerrard is the PL trophy and his feck up in one of the years they could have won it but in respect to longevity / big game performances (FA Cup / CL finals) he’s up there for sure.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
He wouldn't even get into a top four side currently, so no.

Neither would most players of that era, to be fair.
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Agreed, hard for 40+ year old players to play in PL. Maybe championship they should be good.
 
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