Ridiculous productivity
Is Sterling the best english player at the moment?
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30 goals and 10 assists. hard to argue that he isn''t the2ndbest English player.
If you could put Sterlings movement into Martial or Martials composure and finishing into Raheem, the results would be scary.
Love him. His first goal was fantastic today.
I think Kane is still England's best footballer, Sterling is doing very well though,he is the only English forward in city and is benefiting from it,I wouldn't take him over Rashford and I don't think he would get into Liverpool's team,he should be scoring 50+ with the chances city create (I might be a bit harsh but I don't rate him with the likes of Mane,Hazard, Mbappe,Neymar.he is a level below)
Guardiola didn't seem that happy
About...
Think that’s the hardest I’ve ever seen him hit a ball
Does any remember when Liverpool sold him all the pundits and Liverpool fans said they got great money for him. Looking like a bargain now.
Hate that he plays for city because he’s class and seems like a nice guy.
Hate that he plays for city because he’s class and seems like a nice guy.
That is what I like the most about Pep when they are giving teams a drumming he still gets upset about a missed chance of wayward pass, can’t deny his desire for perfection
Haha yeah. Doesnt usually get that connection, but it was one of those shots where as soon as he hit it, you just knew it was going top corner.
Is it true he was a big United fan as a kid and Ronaldo was his idol?
I remember them saying Ibe was going to be even better than Sterling
Dont know about the Ronaldo bit but he was a United fan growing up. Probably still is given how many chances he's missed against us
.I remember them saying Ibe was going to be even better than Sterling
. I actually forgot about that part. Anyway was a bargain for CityVery good first goal. Second was more what you would expect from him: bumbling it in from a missed penalty. In all seriousness, he had a good game.
I don't like the very common mentality of only judging a player based on their last game, though. If that's the procedure, there's no competing with this:
I don't like the very common mentality of only judging a player based on their last game, though. If that's the procedure, there's no competing with this:
very harsh. he matches his XG and scores pretty much as much as he should. Also Mane misses more big clear cut chances than Sterling over the last 2 seasons (see premier league website) so in theory Mane should score more but isn't as great a finisher as he is made out to be. Salah too. Sterling is every bit as good as them. He was pivotal during their title winning campaign and should of one a real award, not the young player one.
He still goes through patches for me. I think he needs to work with someone to find out why it happens to him so regularly. He can go missing for 10-12 games at a time and all of a sudden he is back again.
Form is something all players go through but there seems to be a gulf between his best and his worst.
It was very strange how much his form dipped after the incident with Gomez. I wonder if it is a mental issue. When he is on form, there are few better.
Form is something all players go through but there seems to be a gulf between his best and his worst.
It was very strange how much his form dipped after the incident with Gomez. I wonder if it is a mental issue. When he is on form, there are few better.
The question you need to ask is... what would his stats be like outside of City?
Still be great but maybe not as good but I don’t get these points he starts for a team that our world class because he is a fantastic player. He might get more chances at City but he is good enough to start every game for them.
What I mean, is he better than Rashford or Martial? Or does playing for city remove flaws in his game?
He was on the bench in the away game which they won though
I agree with much of what you said. I don't actually believe he is clinical and don't think I suggested that. It was the claim that his finishing was vastly worse than others and he only scored because he plays for City. I have seen stats that many of the top scorers in the EPL miss more big chances which is why I mentioned this.
I don't know if he could match that productivity at City. You have to get into the positions as well as finish them. Raheem's football IQ/movement is exemplary. I feel Rashfords is levels below and needs the ball at his feet more to run at people. The SAS thing worked well because Sterling has great understanding of passing, linking and movement. Rashfords has improved though. I feel Rashford would frustrate Pep with poor decisions at times and playing with his head down too much, more kick and run. Not every player can play in a Pep team as it requires specific skill sets
You are massively underrating Rashford's ability, game intelligence and Guardiola's coaching ability.
Rashford even when he's been poor is more involved in build play and plays a good 10-20 yards away from goal than Sterling. Not to mention the quality of his team mates, the system etc.
Any of our attackers would be lucky to get 1-3 good clear chances at goal (yes even during our run post lock down) per game whilst most of your City players get 2-5 each.
The other guy highlighted that as a negative for Rashford. Watch Sterling for City, he makes runs in behind the defence multiple times a game. Most of the time the ball doesn't even come but he is consistent with his runs. You could argue Ole isnt asking Rashford to do that, but I dont know why he wouldnt.
Also City are relentless in attack, they keep going even when games are up. Most of our players (Rashford included) relax as soon as they feel a game is won.
Do we do this with other City players though? I don't see people questioning Aguero like that, or De Bruyne.
But Sterling gets these questions. It feels a little unfair. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves.
It's a stupid question... "the City system makes him look much better than he actually is"
1. What exactly is this magical system, that, independent of the players, raises their levels several octaves?
2. How many players does this system apply to at City?
3. Why can't we buy this magical system and install it at United so that we can boost Rashford and Marrial's output a bit?
4. Specifically for Sterling... "He receives so many chances"... Does this apply to his assists too?
Of course they do. Whenever a 'greatest premier league striker' thread comes up, it's used to provide context when comparing Aguero to your Shearers.
As for De Bruyne, it's the same when people say Pogba should be putting up him figures (from deep midfield without the same calibre of team mates/coaching).
Are you saying that Man City is not better coached than pretty much the rest of the league bar one? Conversely, why doesn't Sterling produce as consistently for England then?
There you go.
Pep is a bald fraud though, many managers could replicate what he does if they spent the same amount of money
More seriously though, "the system" is used as an easy cop out explanation for why Sterling (and other players for City) look better than they are (probably with the exception of Aguero and De Bruyne). No system is good enough to hide 9 mediocre players... Of course they are coached well, but Sterling in particular gets huge numbers because his skillset creates chances for other players, and opens space for the likes of De Bruyne and co to work their stuff. Plus he's good within the box.
As for why he doesn't perform nearly as good for England... Maybe because Southgate isn't as good? Maybe because a lot of players don't perform as well at international level as they do with their clubs?
He is.
I agree though Rashford is only 22 and Sterling is 25 so there is a chance Rashford can reach that level he is not far off.
The thing about Sterling is he is actually quite wasteful at times but his movement and anticipation is second to none.
He's the best English player as well as the best winger in the league IMO.
Depends on what you’re using to say Rashford isn’t far off. Sterling has been bagging +20 goals and double digit assists every season for 3 years now. Prior to that he was registering double figures for both every season since 13/14. As much as Redcafe doesn’t like to admit it. Raheem Sterling is a very special player.
This is Rashford’s first season breaking the 20 goals barrier, hopefully he can keep it up moving forward, but he’s never shown consistency anywhere close to Sterling’s in terms of productivity and performances. He’s also been the weakest performer of our attacking trio since the restart of the season.
Sterling is clear of Rashford and I don’t know why people want to pretend he isn’t or that it’s close.
I know Sterling is clear of Rashford and when I said not far off he is still off. The thing you are saying about Sterling doing 20+ he was 22 when he started to do that and Rashford was on course for more than 22 goals until he got injured he had 17 in January.
I agree that Sterling is a special player and is developing so well under a world class manager. I guess I just have high hopes for Rashford
Excellent post. I've already made the point several times in this thread, which is explicitly a Raheem Sterling thread, that even Aguero is actually not a clinical finisher (certainly not among the league's statistical elite, which consists of players like Kane, Vardy and Son). I'm sure others have made similar points, despite this not being a general thread about City players.
All of City's forwards are made to look better by who they play for, the quality around them, and the sheer number of chances created by the team as a whole. Anyone who says Sterling is being singled out has it the wrong way around: he's not an exception to the rules that apply to his team, and he would have to be in order to warrant special consideration as, for the sake of this discussion, England's best player.
1. Is anyone really trying to argue that the system is independent of the players? I don't see them as separable and, even if this may be lazy thinking, I don't think anyone else separates them either. Therefore when someone says "the system elevates Sterling", I read "the system, in which there's always elite players, elevates Sterling". As an aside, Pep's system seems to require elite players in every position, which raises questions quite apart from the subject of this topic.
2. All of them, though clearly in differing ways and to somewhat differing extents. I don't see anyone claiming otherwise here either. Presumably, you can apply the same benchmark to, say, all of the forwards.
3. Maybe that aside from (1) is more relevant than I thought. The system seems to have a dependence on exceptional quality in every position. If you've got the quality, you can try to implement it yourself. Do you have the quality? If yes, the explanation for why you haven't tried to play the same way is down to your own coaching and management staff.
4. Sure. An assist is just a specialised instance of a key pass. In any great attacking team, you expect a high volume of key passes, which means a likely high volume of assists for everyone involved. I initially wanted to point out that he only has like one league assist this season but he's been pretty damn unlucky with them this term. Referencing my point from multiple previous posts that City's attack really isn't clinical, Sterling should've had about 6 or 7 more than he actually got. Based on technique alone, however, I wouldn't describe his passing as anything special.
(I get that you probably weren't expecting any earnest response to your largely rhetorical questions but they're not difficult points to, if not counter, at least reframe in a sane light, consistent with the view that Sterling is both a great player and assisted by his club environment.)
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@1966
I was going to multiple quote you Chief style, but I think my serious rebuttal comes down to a few key points
1. An exceptional system like City and Liverpool's is the function of the players, not the other way around. Their skillset, their ability to implement the manager's instructions and philosophy on the field, is why such effective systems and patterns of play can be implemented. So contrary to you, I argue that City's successful system is partly due to Sterling's role as an excellent wide forward, not the other way around.
2. I think you would be shocked to know that not everyone thinks City has exceptional players in every position. Aguero, De Bruyne, Laporte, Fernandinho (from last season) are universally acclaimed as exceptional. It gets murky beyond that. Ederson, Mendy, Zinchenko, Stones, Otamendi, Walker, Gundogan, Rodri, Mahrez, Sterling, Jesus, Cancelo, B. Silva (of this season), Garcia... all are rated less than exceptional by significant parts of Footballdom. Sterling in particular (I rate him of course but your point about the system being easy to implement due to a presence of exceptional players at every position doesn't hold water really).
3. Specific to Sterling's assist numbers in aggregate over the past few years, I don't think it's automatic that you make a key pass in a "great attacking system". Maybe he makes a lot of key passes because he's great? Similar to Muller... you don't have to have the passing ability of De Bruyne to be a highly effective attacking player. Any assist from his club environment comes down to him having a manager who, bald fraud flat earth theory aside, knows how to coach effective attacking patterns off the pitch, like any other competent manager looks to get out of his players. But he has a huge responsibility in that team to execute and offer a threat, and he does that well enough that I can't help but scoff at suggestions that he's being "carried". It's just a bullshit narrative that applies to the best teams (and I've been guilty of doing this with Henderson at Liverpool as well).
I was going to multiple quote you Chief style, but I think my serious rebuttal comes down to a few key points
1. An exceptional system like City and Liverpool's is the function of the players, not the other way around. Their skillset, their ability to implement the manager's instructions and philosophy on the field, is why such effective systems and patterns of play can be implemented. So contrary to you, I argue that City's successful system is partly due to Sterling's role as an excellent wide forward, not the other way around.
2. I think you would be shocked to know that not everyone thinks City has exceptional players in every position. Aguero, De Bruyne, Laporte, Fernandinho (from last season) are universally acclaimed as exceptional. It gets murky beyond that. Ederson, Mendy, Zinchenko, Stones, Otamendi, Walker, Gundogan, Rodri, Mahrez, Sterling, Jesus, Cancelo, B. Silva (of this season), Garcia... all are rated less than exceptional by significant parts of Footballdom. Sterling in particular (I rate him of course but your point about the system being easy to implement due to a presence of exceptional players at every position doesn't hold water really).
3. Specific to Sterling's assist numbers in aggregate over the past few years, I don't think it's automatic that you make a key pass in a "great attacking system". Maybe he makes a lot of key passes because he's great? Similar to Muller... you don't have to have the passing ability of De Bruyne to be a highly effective attacking player. Any assist from his club environment comes down to him having a manager who, bald fraud flat earth theory aside, knows how to coach effective attacking patterns off the pitch, like any other competent manager looks to get out of his players. But he has a huge responsibility in that team to execute and offer a threat, and he does that well enough that I can't help but scoff at suggestions that he's being "carried". It's just a bullshit narrative that applies to the best teams (and I've been guilty of doing this with Henderson at Liverpool as well).
I'm glad I didn't kill time replying before I saw that lazy nonsense with which you clogged up that Salah thread. Bits and bytes are theorerically infinite, yet still you find a way to waste them.
Totally agree. Some people get everything backwards. Sterling is excellent therefore improves Man City’s system and being a key position if he wasn’t fantastic he’d be replaced. He is where he is on merit and if he wasn’t the outstanding player to play there City would be some obtainable player who was better. He stacks up those numbers because he’s fantastic, and he is a major contributor to how good the team and the system looks.
We’ve all seen at Man Utd what happens if you have a system but the key players aren’t good enough, Bruno’s arrival and the before and after is the most cut and dried example I think I’ve ever seen in PL.
It's also not reflective of anything I've said: I'm actually one of Sterling's supporters. I consistently describe him as a great player and sometimes even call him world class, including several times in this thread.
My only contentions are that (a) Kane is better and has been for the vast majority of the last six years, and (b) the propositions "Sterling is a great player" and "Sterling is assisted by the quality of his team" are symbiotic and entirely compatible.