West Ham United
Is producing a Mainoo more satisfying than winning a trophy?
- Thread starter Prodigal7
- Start date
Yes officer - this post here.
I would say no, it’s not. I mean the best reference point recently would be Rashford. Sure, it’s cool that he’s come through our academy since he was a child and has become a top quality player, but I would have felt the same about him if he was signed from West Ham and had the season he did last year, as I do with him coming through the system and doing what he does.
Question doesn't need to be answered, we have done both, and will continue to do so. One thing I love about us, is the kids that come through have an amazing chance of making it, despite the cancers owning us we still seem to have the right set up for bringing them through.
Mainoo is the icing on the cake. This is where United and fans fall over. We forget the fkn cake and just keep trying to make icing
We really have fallen very far as a club and fanbase.
Can a loss be a win?
Competing for the PL trophy is the minimum goal of every new season, winning it being the objective. All else is secondary, though it is magnificent to see academy products come through as Mainoo has.
Producing quality players only really matters if they play well consistently and help the team achieve their goals and/or win trophies in my opinion.
It's brilliant that Mainoo and Garnacho are looking very promising and have already played their part in winning trophies at such a young age. Equally though, one of our greatest ever players was produced by Everton, and there's been the likes of Pique and Pogba that came out of our academy but played their best football and won lots of trophies at other big clubs.
So I would put winning trophies above producing talent but it's an added bonus if the talent we produce helps us do well and win trophies.
It's brilliant that Mainoo and Garnacho are looking very promising and have already played their part in winning trophies at such a young age. Equally though, one of our greatest ever players was produced by Everton, and there's been the likes of Pique and Pogba that came out of our academy but played their best football and won lots of trophies at other big clubs.
So I would put winning trophies above producing talent but it's an added bonus if the talent we produce helps us do well and win trophies.
What!
This is a very sad thread
what if he didn’t win anything in his career?
We should just become Southampton
yeah that's my point, it wouldn't be more satisfying
the question is circular and I can't give my answer in binary terms
Yup, rawkesque. My thought exactly.
Jesus wept!
No. Winning trophies is more satisfying.
But if we win it while playing talented academy kids along the way, it makes the experience even better as there is something on top of the trophy to be proud of.
Producing promising youngsters whileu not winning or challenging for anything doesn’t count for much though.
But if we win it while playing talented academy kids along the way, it makes the experience even better as there is something on top of the trophy to be proud of.
Producing promising youngsters whileu not winning or challenging for anything doesn’t count for much though.
Don't reverse the logic. If we are feeding club, then yes, every talent produced could mean jackpot for next summer, hence funding for going concern and bonus for management. If this club has any ambition at all, including our fans, then winning trophy, major trophy, and maintaining long term stability in Top 4, should be our goals. Successful recruitment & players development, are necessary and critical element towards this goal, not the other way round.
No because then he will go elsewhere to win trophies. Its not chemical science. You can replace the question with "Do you want to be BvB?" to the same effect.
I would love to have peak Ronaldo and Messi together up front and win all the trophies
That said, Mainoo haven’t achieve anything significant here yet. Maybe he will after a decade of playing football here
That said, Mainoo haven’t achieve anything significant here yet. Maybe he will after a decade of playing football here
The purpose of mainoos are trophies. They are means to an end. We are not west ham. So no, keep the rashfords amd mainoos, I'll take ronaldos and rooneys.
Can a Mainoo be a win? That is the question
Asked his parents, they confirmed it was more satisfying. So, yes.
But Scholes, and your satisfaction from producing Scholes comes from his ability which allowed United to win trophies. You wouldn't look at Scholes the same way you do now if Scholes wasn't part of the winning teams. How could trophies not influence your perception of Scholes? You felt the joy from the results those young players were giving you, the fan.
Obviously not nothing beats winning. What a strange thought process. If that’s your mentality you may as well support Southampton or Brighton
yeah, I agree with you.. that’s kinda my point here
producing the talent is amazing but it amounts to little unless they go on to achieve things at United
if Mainoo turns into a world class player, and stays at United winning 10 trophies in the process, I’d look back on that as more impactful than one trophy win
This question seems more interesting the longer I think about it.
One answer that comes to mind is: no, because producing Mainoo won't really be fully satisfying until he becomes a trophy-winning player. He's too good to be considered successful without winning the league at some point. And any time he has a bad season all his good performances up to that point will be discarded if they're not anchored to the irrefutable success of a major trophy.
After all, isn't this really Rashford's problem? Not that he's streaky - many acknowledged star players now and in the past have been streaky (KDB looked hopeless for a good five months last season. Rooney never performed for more than 6 months consecutively post-Ronaldo). It's that he's streaky without having some league wins under his belt to make fans feel that his good seasons/spells were actually worth anything. If we'd won the league in 19/20 or 20/21 and then again last season, those strong goalscoring seasons would be crystallised in history through those league wins. Instead, they are mentioned only as throwaway 'sure, he has hot streaks sometimes' lines when people are criticising him.
tl;dr:
If you win major trophies, people remember your good form and forget your bad.
If you don't win trophies, people remember your bad form and forget your good.
So it's never going to be satisfying to create a top player unless they get the trophies too.
One answer that comes to mind is: no, because producing Mainoo won't really be fully satisfying until he becomes a trophy-winning player. He's too good to be considered successful without winning the league at some point. And any time he has a bad season all his good performances up to that point will be discarded if they're not anchored to the irrefutable success of a major trophy.
After all, isn't this really Rashford's problem? Not that he's streaky - many acknowledged star players now and in the past have been streaky (KDB looked hopeless for a good five months last season. Rooney never performed for more than 6 months consecutively post-Ronaldo). It's that he's streaky without having some league wins under his belt to make fans feel that his good seasons/spells were actually worth anything. If we'd won the league in 19/20 or 20/21 and then again last season, those strong goalscoring seasons would be crystallised in history through those league wins. Instead, they are mentioned only as throwaway 'sure, he has hot streaks sometimes' lines when people are criticising him.
tl;dr:
If you win major trophies, people remember your good form and forget your bad.
If you don't win trophies, people remember your bad form and forget your good.
So it's never going to be satisfying to create a top player unless they get the trophies too.
I’m not surprised by the OP stand, I’m almost certain that there are posters that would rather Rashford returning back to form or continue being part of the starting XI than us winning a PL title.
I would add, for you. It's only satisfying to create a top player if they get trophies for your club, do West Ham fans take any satisfication from their club developing Lampard? Do Liverpool take any satisfaction from developing Sterling?
For clubs that are used to win things simply developing players is never going to be satisfying on its own because nearly every successful club has done it and are doing it but also because for that question to makes sense the club would have to not win trophies during the career of that particular player.
Winning an FA Cup with what five academy players involved at some point is more poignant than winning the league whilst being bankrolled by an entire state with 115 financial charges.
I'm not sure this is a thing. Rashford has come in for a ridiculous amount of criticism on here, largely because he is an academy player.
What is a thing is people being obsessed with superstar galactico style signings every summer. Labelling anyone as "Brexit FC" if they appreciate the club signing/developing young English players rather than spending 60 million on this summer's soon to be past it Real Madrid/Bayern Munich legend.
I'm not sure this is a thing. Rashford has come in for a ridiculous amount of criticism on here, largely because he is an academy player.
What is a thing is people being obsessed with superstar galactico style signings every summer. Labelling anyone as "Brexit FC" if they appreciate the club signing/developing young English players rather than spending 60 million on this summer's soon to be past it Real Madrid/Bayern Munich legend.
Producing a couple of Mainoos and winning titles with them as stars, that's the best
We are a romantic emotional bunch aren't we
You say this now but wait till you turn on him in 5 years time for being too slow or not dynamic enough.
Similar buzz for Rashford and now half this forum decided to actually recognise his flaws and hates him for living through our mediocrity era.
Similar buzz for Rashford and now half this forum decided to actually recognise his flaws and hates him for living through our mediocrity era.
Why settle for one over other?
We have not produced a midfielder as good as Mainoo since scholes.
So, there are people who would rather produce good players from the academy than actually win stuff.
Like West Ham did a few years ago and Southampton. Produce good players from the academy and then sell them on so they can win trophies somewhere else.
What a ridiculous notion
some people have some truly bizarre ideas.
Like West Ham did a few years ago and Southampton. Produce good players from the academy and then sell them on so they can win trophies somewhere else.
What a ridiculous notion
some people have some truly bizarre ideas.I don't really see what the comparison is.
Producing young players is a strategy, a methodology around creating a strong team and being financially robust.
Winning trophies is an outcome we're judged against.
No more relevant to me on the conversation of trophies of being proud we used a 4-2-3-1 with inverted wingers. It doesn't really make a difference to the goals we have, it's did you achieve them, is the football attractive.
Producing young players is a strategy, a methodology around creating a strong team and being financially robust.
Winning trophies is an outcome we're judged against.
No more relevant to me on the conversation of trophies of being proud we used a 4-2-3-1 with inverted wingers. It doesn't really make a difference to the goals we have, it's did you achieve them, is the football attractive.
Thanks for reminding me that my motivation in life, in anything, shall never ever be ‘to avoid being comparable to RAWK’. What a sad way of thinking.
I think I get the point of the OP, it’s not a question between choosing between players or trophies. It’s putting a point on it to see what things gives enjoyment and interest as a fan apart from the obvious (trophies). Let’s say seeing Garnacho and Mainoo these last season gives me more desire to watch Man Utd, both because they come from the youth ranks and from Manchester respectively, and because of the way they play, and because of the promise of the potential into the future.
Seeing the two scoring the goals to sink City in the FA Cup final is for me such a great feeling that I had when Norman Whiteside at 20 decided the FA Cup final vs league winners Everton in 1985. Those are moments I remember for a decade, two decades, five decades.