Give him Yeovil Town FC and see if he can get them all the way to the PL. Only then I'll call him one of the greatest.
Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
Show me a man who leads Aberdeen to glory over Real Madrid…
He's very good, but has displayed a more limited skillset than most of his admirers would have you believe; he's never managed in anything except the most relatively comfortable circumstances with existing 'top' backroom teams/set-ups or ones made spec for him (copying those previous ones,, including DOF setup, new academy etc).
He's never taken a club facing real structural challenges and transformed it. Coaching-wise, he's experimented and shown himself to be clever at minute tweaks (if often second-guessing himself at the bleeding edge of Champ League, in particular, until today, and even then, he was one 'more competent than Lukaku' finisher away from being drawn nto extra time and possible penalty roulette), but he's never done anything more impressive than Bielsa did with turning Leeds from midtable championship sluggers and a couple of promising raw players like Phillips into one of the most fearsome teams, in terms of energy and interplay, to play against in the PL over a couple of seasons, at least for a short-time; I'm sure there are similar examples from other leagues.
He's never taken a club facing real structural challenges and transformed it. Coaching-wise, he's experimented and shown himself to be clever at minute tweaks (if often second-guessing himself at the bleeding edge of Champ League, in particular, until today, and even then, he was one 'more competent than Lukaku' finisher away from being drawn nto extra time and possible penalty roulette), but he's never done anything more impressive than Bielsa did with turning Leeds from midtable championship sluggers and a couple of promising raw players like Phillips into one of the most fearsome teams, in terms of energy and interplay, to play against in the PL over a couple of seasons, at least for a short-time; I'm sure there are similar examples from other leagues.
He’s not got a magic wand but he has a clear system that has proven to be successful not only in his teams but when you see the footprints in teams like Kompany’s Burnley and Arteta’s Arsenal. My guess is that he will need some years to establish his footprints on Yeovil Town similar to how Klopp had to slowly but steadily replaced his squad till he was able to find a core that would implement his ideas on the pitch. Managers are disadvantaged because no matter how brilliant their ideas are someone else will need to carry them out.
Madrid were hardly a good side
I am a huge Pep fan but I think even he will say, his management career has so far been lucky to start with then carefully planned after that.
Fergys achievements before United and what ended up doing at United to me still making him my favourite of all time.
I can only hope that Pep retires before the game moves past him and he becomes a Jose.
Fergys achievements before United and what ended up doing at United to me still making him my favourite of all time.
I can only hope that Pep retires before the game moves past him and he becomes a Jose.
Hard to say this but he is a class act.
I never said that he isn’t a great manager. In fact the first line of my first post you quoted said that he is one of the best of our lifetime. It doesn’t change the fact that he has a very strong squad. Grealish, Stones and Ake who you quoted as not so fancied players were bought for 100,45 and 41 million respectively. Of their 16 most used players this season only Foden is from the academy. Once again Pep has done an incredible job of raising the level of some of the players but you also can’t deny the fact that the squad is very very strong. United are a terrible team to compare to because we all know that we are shockingly run as a club but hardly anyone else can compete with a squad of this sort
Good job
Exactly that's why he stands alone
Nope. I hope that happens so we can put the notion that he is better than Sir Alex to bed.
Enjoy the championship!The tears in this thread.
The truth is in the middle as always. He does need money to be successful and City have been able to get him the players he needs but you're right that he is the one that has made most of the players household names, and spending money doesn't guarantee this sort of sustained success no matter how much you spent. They've spent money but they've also got their recruitment spot on.
Still rate Fergie above him though.
No. He is just a very good cheque book manager. But what SAF achieved with us for so long, or what Mou achieved with Porto, or Zizou’s 3 consecutive CLs, hold more merit for me.
His first treble is tainted because the robbery at Stamford Bridge, UEFAlona should have never played that final.
His second treble is tainted for the FFP rules $hitty have broken.
His first treble is tainted because the robbery at Stamford Bridge, UEFAlona should have never played that final.
His second treble is tainted for the FFP rules $hitty have broken.
Haha..is this a joke? He is not even better than Klopp. I am Man Utd fan but I think Klopp is the better manager.
Pep success was built on unlimited funds, financial doping and best football structure and infrastructure.
Klopp built a real team with limited budget which played brilliant football. He was unlucky to compete with doping City where over 100 points were not enough to win PL.
If both were to built a team from equal resources I have no doubt that Klopp will be better.
Pep success was built on unlimited funds, financial doping and best football structure and infrastructure.
Klopp built a real team with limited budget which played brilliant football. He was unlucky to compete with doping City where over 100 points were not enough to win PL.
If both were to built a team from equal resources I have no doubt that Klopp will be better.
He's a great tactician yes but his legacy will always be hindered by the amount of money spent at his clubs and also that at Barcelona he already had magical puzzle pieces in place like Messi, Iniesta to name a couple.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/49822761
https://m.independent.ie/sport/socc...ople-might-not-like-the-answers/36943284.html
The blood doping, it was all delayed, covered up and the evidence all destroyed. Fuentes admitted and other said too that many top level players and clubs were his clients, including Barcelona. Who also reportedly used growth hormones and not just on Messi and had some nice friendly cycling doctors like Luis Garcia Del Moral on the pay roll too.
the greatest who cheated, like Lance Armstrong
Lance Armstrong was better. At the very least he hide his cheating well. No one knows about it until he was caught many years later.
But City cheating are so blatant and obvious. Everyone knows about it but they can keep cheating in the broad daylight and no one can touch them. They are above cheating and the law.
Their revenues now surpassed even Man Utd, RM and the likes.
But City cheating are so blatant and obvious. Everyone knows about it but they can keep cheating in the broad daylight and no one can touch them. They are above cheating and the law.
Their revenues now surpassed even Man Utd, RM and the likes.
Send that to the media wanking over him
Would love to know who is actually responsible for him not ending up replacing Fergie. Pisses me off beyond belief that we weren't the club getting the Barca backroom staff in place for him
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It was Fergie and the Scottish same cloth. It's on him.
Pep might or might not join us but it was always Moyes on his mind. No way he's listing Jose and Pep as priority then shift to David fooking Moyes
Yeah will never understand the Moyes decision,what on earth was Gill doing let him pick his own successor
What Fergie has done is more admirable, first he took a top 4 Aberdeen side to 3 Scottish league titles and 2 European trophies (their only league titles and European trophies ever won throughout their 120 years history), and won overall 11 trophies there.
Then he also took top 4 Man Utd side, a club with 20 years without winning any league title, into a dominance force in England, winning 13 league titles and 2 CL trophies, became treble winner, with overall 38 trophies won in over 2 decades of domination.
He has done all that with a rather manageable budget, and he has proven himself at more levels of adversity from being the underdogs.
I don't think there is any other manager who could match these 2 achievements.
As for Pep, his legacy would remain to be the manager of 2 of the most dominating club side ever - Barca (08-12, tiki taka football, treble winner, 2x CL), and City (17-23+, treble winner, 5 league titles in his 7 years reign). The only manager who has achieved double treble, and has received the most success in relatively the shortest period (35 trophies in 15 years).
But he has done all that with the best resources available to him, he is basically a comfort zone manager who hasn't been proven under more adverse situation as underdogs. And his achievements would always comes with asterisk of doubts from Barca corruption allegations, and City's 115 charges of breaching FFP.
Then he also took top 4 Man Utd side, a club with 20 years without winning any league title, into a dominance force in England, winning 13 league titles and 2 CL trophies, became treble winner, with overall 38 trophies won in over 2 decades of domination.
He has done all that with a rather manageable budget, and he has proven himself at more levels of adversity from being the underdogs.
I don't think there is any other manager who could match these 2 achievements.
As for Pep, his legacy would remain to be the manager of 2 of the most dominating club side ever - Barca (08-12, tiki taka football, treble winner, 2x CL), and City (17-23+, treble winner, 5 league titles in his 7 years reign). The only manager who has achieved double treble, and has received the most success in relatively the shortest period (35 trophies in 15 years).
But he has done all that with the best resources available to him, he is basically a comfort zone manager who hasn't been proven under more adverse situation as underdogs. And his achievements would always comes with asterisk of doubts from Barca corruption allegations, and City's 115 charges of breaching FFP.
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He has revolutionised football, completely changed it, they are extraordinary. 3 champions league now, regardless of money he is the GOAT.
In terms of Budget, Fergie's financial clout could be argued to be bigger than City's. We were almost a monopoly in the league for circa 20 years.
Not sure about the greatest but easily one of the most innovative for sure
He did something with City most did not think was possible with two attacking midfielders.
This achievement is greater than his achievement with Barcelona, City have been frankly extraordinary and they have played a beautiful game. GOAT.
This isn’t correct. Fergie stated in his autobiography that he asked Pep to be the next United manager long before he made the decision to retire. He didn’t want to manage the club. Nobody wanted to take the reigns after Fergie retired because they knew it was a disaster waiting to happen. United contacted Mouinho, Kloop and Ancelotti and for various reasons they turned it down. Moyes was right down the list of options. You are correct that Fergie should of had nothing to do with the next appointment. Would it happen in any other industry?
He's not the greatest ever as I wrote in an earlier post in this thread [he might very well go down as the greatest ever in the eyes of many, though].
While being a minority opinion, I agree with what @el3mel argues-
Pep has a very special ability to take some players who're borderline world-class or already are, and elevate them to an even further level.
Especially (maybe only) midfielders with offensive mindsets/tasks.
he's not going to make Haaland better than he is or will be elsewhere. Ditto Grealish, Mahrez, Sterling, or Sane in the past.
His football will more often than not allow them to present their best of abilities, but I don't think he transforms them.
but if you take KdB as the latest example- Everyone who saw him enough times at Wolfsburg could see that he was special and could become of the best in his role one day.
But I do think that Pep- after cheating, spending insane amounts and whatnot- has created the template for him to be talked about as one of the greatest offensive midfielders the Prem has ever seen (if not THE best). The triangles, the overloads, the way they strangle teams... it doesn't come out of thin air. And makes for a perfect setting for his playmaker/nr 8/free-roaming whatever you would call someone like KdB.
I tend to also think that Pep has something to do with Xavi and Iniesta belonging in GOAT (in their respective roles) discussions, rather than a tiny tier below that. And yes, I know that they were brilliant before him and were key figures in Spain's 2008 Euro win. still doesn't contradict what I argue
But at the end of the day, who knows, really...
While being a minority opinion, I agree with what @el3mel argues-
Pep has a very special ability to take some players who're borderline world-class or already are, and elevate them to an even further level.
Especially (maybe only) midfielders with offensive mindsets/tasks.
he's not going to make Haaland better than he is or will be elsewhere. Ditto Grealish, Mahrez, Sterling, or Sane in the past.
His football will more often than not allow them to present their best of abilities, but I don't think he transforms them.
but if you take KdB as the latest example- Everyone who saw him enough times at Wolfsburg could see that he was special and could become of the best in his role one day.
But I do think that Pep- after cheating, spending insane amounts and whatnot- has created the template for him to be talked about as one of the greatest offensive midfielders the Prem has ever seen (if not THE best). The triangles, the overloads, the way they strangle teams... it doesn't come out of thin air. And makes for a perfect setting for his playmaker/nr 8/free-roaming whatever you would call someone like KdB.
I tend to also think that Pep has something to do with Xavi and Iniesta belonging in GOAT (in their respective roles) discussions, rather than a tiny tier below that. And yes, I know that they were brilliant before him and were key figures in Spain's 2008 Euro win. still doesn't contradict what I argue
But at the end of the day, who knows, really...
Well we kinda self generated our income based on our success build from Fergie's era. Sure we have some money to spend prior Fergie taking over, but basically Fergie doesn't have the same advantage in hand prior to joining us (unlimited or best resources available), he is actually biggest part of reason turning us into huge success on and off the fields, and our financial strength is the outcome of that.
Pure fantasy. United weren’t the highest spenders during the 90s and rarely spent more than league rivals year on year. English clubs could not match many Europeans sides for wages and transfer fees either. In Europe in particular United were underdogs for most of the 90s. With English club banned from Europe in the late 80s as well it took years for United to get to the right level in the Champions League. That is why there is romance to his and United’s achievements, alongside the pool of youth players. To proclaim that Sir Alex had the financial advantage that Pep has with City is complete nonsense. He even had to ask for his salary to match George Graham, that’s how tight Martin Edwards was as an owner.
Thought it was more that he had already given Bayern his word when Fergie asked. There is also that story which said he couldn't understand the Scottish accent
I have no idea who those "most", winning the CL was a matter of time
Basically every pundit thinks he has revolutionised football all over the world, hard to disagree.
Cannot stomach we let him end up there
His career choices will have you believe he's after the best chances to win trophies.
United, post Fergie, wasn't the safest bet.
It's not like it was in our hands (as in, he desperately wanted to come here) and we blew it.
That's one thing we didn't "Woodward".
Just doesn't feel like we reacted quickly enough
I don't trust my memory enough to be sure,
but aside from that story (made up or not) that Pep didn't understand Fergie's English when the latter asked him to replace him-
wasn't it documented that Pep made it clear that for him to come over, the entire footballing side of the club had to be restructured, or something like that?
Glazers would never have sanctioned it / recruited apt personnel for it.
So it's not only about how quickly you react.
Also about what you're willing to do to accommodate someone into your organization.
I mean, if he has an unlimited budget to try and try until he gets it right, then its pretty effective football.
I still think Klopp does it better under similar conditions (getting signings right).