Is our defense too young?

Mad Winger

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At the end of the day, skill is what matters the most. David De Gea is the perfect example of this. But is it not important to have some routine in defense? Assuming we sign Shaw and Rio+Evra leaves/retires, then our defense will look like this next season:

DDG(24)

Rafael(24)
Jones(22)
Smalling(25)
Evans(26)
Büttner(25)
Shaw(19)

Average age = 23.5

______________________________

Is this too young?
Should Evra and Rio stay in order to keep some experience in the defense, or are they both past it?
Should we sign an experienced CB? If yes; who?
 
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Our defence this year has been too old. Immobile, unable it push-up and stop the team having to defend deep. It's hurt the whole team. If anything we need more youth at the back not less.
 
I don't think age has anything to really do with it.
The quality could be questioned right now....So I guess you could say young in the sense that some are not what I consider very good players yet.

Who do we sign? Hummels would be great. Garay or Benatia would be more realistic. As for, should we sign one, I think it is a case of, we need one
 
Perfect ages for our next cycle.
 
I'm happy with that. If you're good enough it doesn't matter what age you are. Age only really comes into it when subtly excusing the performance of an aging player or desperately trying to insist someone shouldn't be criticised because they're young.
 
#07 said:
Our defence this year has been too old. Immobile, unable it push-up and stop the team having to defend deep. It's hurt the whole team. If anything we need more youth at the back not less.
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We have/had 3 old defenders: Vidic, Rio, Evra.

Vidic has already left. Rio barely plays, and will continue to play even less next season(if he stays). And if we sign Shaw, then that's surely the end of Evra.
 
Mad Winger said:
At the end of the day, skill is what matters the most. David De Gea is the perfect example of this. But is it not important to have some routine in defense? Assuming we sign Shaw and Rio+Evra leaves/retires, then our defense will look like this next season:

DDG(24)

Rafael(24)
Jones(22)
Smalling(25)
Evans(26)
Büttner(25)
Shaw(19)

Average age = 23.5

______________________________

Is this too young?
Should Evra and Rio stay in order to keep some routine in the defense, or are they both past it?
Should we sign an experienced CB? If yes; who?
Click to expand...

The first thing is that they are always injured.

If they are always injured at that age... At 30 yo they have to change job
 
As people have said, it's not an issue having young players. My issue is whether they're good enough, I think Shaw will be if we get him and De Gea is but none of the centre backs have fully convinced yet and nor has Rafael.
 
I think Rafael is good enough. The problem is that he's injured all the time. It's actually really sad :(

EDIT:
I also really like Smalling. I think he'll emerge as a world class CB 1-2 years from now, if he plays consistently and stays away from serious injuries.
 
As many have stated, age isn't the issue. It's their fitness that's a big concern. None of our central defenders can stay fit for many matches, and the same goes for Rafael.

This will be a big worry for our next manager, and he has to make sure that he can keep our central defenders and Rafael fit for as much time as possible.
 
Age isn't important, experience is though. In terms of experience I would say we will have some difficulties handling the departure of Vidic and Rio as we have been playing them too much for Evans/Smalling/Jones best.

Evans has the necessary experience so if he remains fit he will hopefully take that role with one of the others. If he gets injured and we play Smalling and Jones then I suspect we will see some inexperience creep out here and there but nothing too serious.
 
Not too young but they need that experienced player next to them. When Rio was in his prime all of the defenders looked great because he was organizing. I think Evans will need to be that player going forward unless we bring someone else in.
 
I think the first thing to form a top defence is they need to be fit all the time, as well as being talented. Rafael, Jones, Evans, Smalling are all good players individually and have potential, but how can they form a good back 4 if they always get injured? Jones is just stupid the way he charges around, always jumping into tackles he has no chance to win and gets injured often as a result. Evans and Rafael seem to always pick up recurring muscle injuries which is never a good sign as those usually don't go away (Rafael at least went injury free last season so there's hope). The age isn't that big of a problem because they're all experienced and have been around for a while, played with Rio and Vidic. The problem is they're all injury prone and so they'll never have a chance to form a good defence.
 
Judging by the responses so far, people seem to be of the opinion that our defense would be good enough if the players weren't so injury prone?

If we get Shaw, then I suppose this is our first defensive line:

-------------- DDG ------------
Rafael - Smalling - Jones - Shaw

If this defensive line manages to stay away from long-term injuries, then I take it that most people are satisfied? We don't need an experienced leader in his prime to take the spot next to Smalling/Jones?
 
I don't think they're too young but do feel the fact that Jones and Smalling have spent a lot of games at right back, and in the case of Jones, in midfield, has hurt their development at cb.
 
tbh, we have a very injury prone defence. From that list, everyone barred Shaw and buttner seemed to enjoy the treatment table all season long
 
Annahnomoss said:
...In terms of experience I would say we will have some difficulties handling the departure of Vidic and Rio as we have been playing them too much for Evans/Smalling/Jones best...
Click to expand...

I think injuries have played a major role in the lack of appearances of Smalling, Jones, and Evans in the centre of defence.

When Rafael was injured and Fabio was unavailable (due to injury/on loan/not preferred), we had no other proper right back to play, there. As a result, we'd play Smalling and Jones, there, just because they have some pace and stamina to go back and forth. Plus, their crossing is also decent though not at the level required for a good right back. These two traits of Jones and Smalling is the reason why they played at right back more often than they should have.

Then, if Rafael was available, then, more often than not, we'd have Smalling, Jones, and Evans out injured for many matches. I remember, during the 2011/12 season, Smalling suffered injuries that prevented him from playing at his best for much of the season. In the 2012/13 season, Jones was the one suffering many injuries along with Smalling. Of course, we know of Evans' troubles with (forgot the body part he had trouble with) so much so that he needed surgery yet didn't have it for 1.5-2 years.

Even after all of these troubles, I think that Smalling, Evans, and Jones have an adequate amount of experience in central defence (Evans being the most experienced and the most like a leader out of the 3). Sure, they will make some naive mistakes (Jones with his over-enthusiasm; Smalling with his few, but possibly dangerous, errors in his positioning in the box), but I feel like they will be fine as long as they play regularly in central defence as a part of a stable back line.
 
Evans is fine. He was very good last season and put in some consistent performances.
Apart from him they're not too young. They're too inexperienced. If players like Smalling and Jones were played in their proper position instead of using them as utility players they would have made it in the first XI. 'Never too late' though. I hope the next managers realises that gives them a proper run in their best positions. Because they could be core of the team for years to come.
 
Mad Winger said:
Judging by the responses so far, people seem to be of the opinion that our defense would be good enough if the players weren't so injury prone?

If we get Shaw, then I suppose this is our first defensive line:

-------------- DDG ------------
Rafael - Smalling - Jones - Shaw

If this defensive line manages to stay away from long-term injuries, then I take it that most people are satisfied? We don't need an experienced leader in his prime to take the spot next to Smalling/Jones?
Click to expand...

Did Hummels and Subotic need an experienced leader in his prime alongside them when both were a part of a title-challenging Borussia Dortmund team for the past few years? Ultimately, given enough experience, both can do well, together (though I prefer Smalling and Evans as Evans is more composed than Jones as a defender).

However, I do think we'll need to buy one central defender who can always be available for selection. I'd prefer someone like O'Shea, but if that defender will be someone in his prime, I wouldn't mind so long as we are able to field a stable defence in the next season.
 
I was thinking this exact same thing today about the whole squad and whom will be important for us next year. I do think we may take a year or two to really push for the title, as we will have a fairly young side out there. Again, could change based on whom we bring in but may need a year or two to gel and adjust then come good.
 
mazhar13 said:
I think injuries have played a major role in the lack of appearances of Smalling, Jones, and Evans in the centre of defence.

When Rafael was injured and Fabio was unavailable (due to injury/on loan/not preferred), we had no other proper right back to play, there. As a result, we'd play Smalling and Jones, there, just because they have some pace and stamina to go back and forth. Plus, their crossing is also decent though not at the level required for a good right back. These two traits of Jones and Smalling is the reason why they played at right back more often than they should have.

Then, if Rafael was available, then, more often than not, we'd have Smalling, Jones, and Evans out injured for many matches. I remember, during the 2011/12 season, Smalling suffered injuries that prevented him from playing at his best for much of the season. In the 2012/13 season, Jones was the one suffering many injuries along with Smalling. Of course, we know of Evans' troubles with (forgot the body part he had trouble with) so much so that he needed surgery yet didn't have it for 1.5-2 years.

Even after all of these troubles, I think that Smalling, Evans, and Jones have an adequate amount of experience in central defence (Evans being the most experienced and the most like a leader out of the 3). Sure, they will make some naive mistakes (Jones with his over-enthusiasm; Smalling with his few, but possibly dangerous, errors in his positioning in the box), but I feel like they will be fine as long as they play regularly in central defence as a part of a stable back line.
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You explain the reasons to slightly lacking experience really well. But I think we underrate the amount of minutes that makes a defender experienced. How many matches has Jones/Smalling had as CB's in comparison to if they had stayed at some lower level club until they were ready to become first team starters.

In the league/CL - Jones has had 15 matches this year as a CB and Smalling just 12. So even if Smalling is 24, someone could gain the three years match-time experience as a CB in just one season if they played 36 games.

It is a huge amount of difference, so Smalling and Jones don't really have the necessary experience as first-choice CB's against the top teams in Europe - it will be a big step up and will involved risk.

I don't think we should be expecting miracles from them next season, we need to give them at least a season or two as constant first team starters before that.
 
When you're in a title race, or a Final of a Cup game, experience plays its hand and probably gives that extra edges (being calm when chasing a goal, not being anxious in a big match, not being bothered by underdog status etc)

But over a game of 38 games, most games are won by skills and competency alone. You don't need much experience going against the bottom leagues, you just need a clear head and actually playing good football.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I don't think we should be expecting miracles from them next season, we need to give them at least a season or two as constant first team starters before that.
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I'm not expecting them to be perfect. They will have errors that will surface up here and there due to their lack of experience. However, it seems to me as if some people believe that those errors may become too frequent. I don't think so because I feel that they've demonstrated their good defensive abilities frequently whenever they've played at central defence. Sure, there will be a few errors, but as long as Smalling and Jones play regularly, those errors won't surface frequently, IMO.

We'll just have to see whether Smalling and Jones are still naive, defensively, or if they're good enough to form a formidable partnership. Even with their injuries, both Smalling and Jones have improved, defensively, IMO, and Evans has made himself more composed and one of the "experienced men" in our defence. As a result, assuming that they aren't injury-prone, I wouldn't mind going into next season with those 3 + Michael Keane.

My biggest concern is their injury-proneness, and that is where I feel we'll need a new central defender who'll always be available.
 
If anything..they seem to be at the right age to play their best football...
Injuries has not been helping to be honest...
 
Jones is just too rash in his decisions to become the kind of quality we need out of a centre-back. How many times did people say in the forums that Jones needs to stop playing like a Neanderthal?

Smalling... none of my mates (esp. British friends) rate him. Speaks volumes IMHO.
 
RORY65 said:
As people have said, it's not an issue having young players. My issue is whether they're good enough, I think Shaw will be if we get him and De Gea is but none of the centre backs have fully convinced yet and nor has Rafael.
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Agreed
 
I'd have liked to reach this point with Jones and Smalling having had a lot more games as CB's. Right now Smalling is too quiet, Jones is too rash and I'm not sure Evans is a leader. I don't see us spending a lot on a CB but I think Van Gaal will bring an older CB with leadership qualities in to partner one of the other 3 next season.
 
I would be genuinely worried going into next season with that defence. I wouldn't necessarily question the age, I would more question the quality and injury records of some of those players.
 
Mad Winger said:
Judging by the responses so far, people seem to be of the opinion that our defense would be good enough if the players weren't so injury prone?

If we get Shaw, then I suppose this is our first defensive line:

-------------- DDG ------------
Rafael - Smalling - Jones - Shaw

If this defensive line manages to stay away from long-term injuries, then I take it that most people are satisfied? We don't need an experienced leader in his prime to take the spot next to Smalling/Jones?
Click to expand...

Jones and Rafael will continue to be prone to injuries, i think.
It's not a defense that is good enough to be a top side right now, but it has the potential to develop into a great one.
 
Mad Winger said:
At the end of the day, skill is what matters the most. David De Gea is the perfect example of this. But is it not important to have some routine in defense? Assuming we sign Shaw and Rio+Evra leaves/retires, then our defense will look like this next season:

DDG(24)

Rafael(24)
Jones(22)
Smalling(25)
Evans(26)
Büttner(25)
Shaw(19)

Average age = 23.5

______________________________

Is this too young?
Should Evra and Rio stay in order to keep some routine in the defense, or are they both past it?
Should we sign an experienced CB? If yes; who?
Click to expand...

I think you mean experience, "routine" would be a tad Norwenglish ;)

I don't think that our defence is too young really, but it could do with some strengthening in terms of quality.
 
Perfect age for rebuilding the team in my opinion. I assumme Rio or Evra need to stay for experience.
 
I think so. Would like to have someone in their prime (Evans) who is world class and can carry this defense. Not many about this summer and if they are then City and Barca will be sniffing about.
 
I don't think the age is a problem, but given the injury history of those players, signing one CB would be really helpful.
 
::sonny:: said:
2 CB, 1 RB, 1 LB
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I doubt our defenders are that injury prone that we need 2 new central defenders, even with Ferdinand leaving. 1 new central defender and Michael Keane is enough for us, next season.
 
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