The same as Mous but better than VG which let's face it isn't an exceptionally high bar.
Is Ole’s football really any better than José & LVG’s?
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2nd place is great, even if the competition is mediocre. Mourinho finished second though, so I'm hesitant to get too excited lest it turn out to be yet another false dawn. Going out of the CL at the group stages (having been in such a strong position) and exiting the FA Cup at the quarters to Leicester needs to be acknowledged. I think he's earned another year and next season is make or break as to whether it's working.
I think there is a case for rose tinted glasses when looking back at fergie's football at Utd it wasnt always great entertaining football. We had teams and cycles that played some great football. We also had some teams especially post ronaldo and "no value in market" which could be quite dull but efficient and grind out results.
We had LVG possession based football which was very dull, but in fairness to LVG had he been given another season or two i think he would have put together a very capable team. But Utd wanted to try Mourinho and his results driven football in attempt to shortcut their way back to the summit. As we all know Mourinhos anti football was not a good fit with utd philosophy.
Ole has come in and has his own view with lighting transitions / counter attacking football. He's also not got all the personnel he needs and is trying to clearup a squad that was full of players of different footballing philosophies. That takes time, a few seasons to achieve. We are definitely struggling when facing a low defensive block and need players able to unlock a low block. Thats either spending alot in the market to bring in the right tools i.e. grealish/sancho etc or being patient and allowing those players to develop (diallo, pellestri, mejbri etc) and fixing other areas of the squad that need work ie. CB/CF/Backup RB etc. As long as Ole is qualifiying for CL every season then I'm happy for him to have the time to fix the issues over the longer term. The football will improve as the squad evolves. It just takes time.
We had LVG possession based football which was very dull, but in fairness to LVG had he been given another season or two i think he would have put together a very capable team. But Utd wanted to try Mourinho and his results driven football in attempt to shortcut their way back to the summit. As we all know Mourinhos anti football was not a good fit with utd philosophy.
Ole has come in and has his own view with lighting transitions / counter attacking football. He's also not got all the personnel he needs and is trying to clearup a squad that was full of players of different footballing philosophies. That takes time, a few seasons to achieve. We are definitely struggling when facing a low defensive block and need players able to unlock a low block. Thats either spending alot in the market to bring in the right tools i.e. grealish/sancho etc or being patient and allowing those players to develop (diallo, pellestri, mejbri etc) and fixing other areas of the squad that need work ie. CB/CF/Backup RB etc. As long as Ole is qualifiying for CL every season then I'm happy for him to have the time to fix the issues over the longer term. The football will improve as the squad evolves. It just takes time.
With the way Ole is trying to build slowly and only spend what we need to and try and build a young team for the next few years vs Jose trying to buy the league getting Pogba Lukaku Matic Zlatan Miki Sanchez Bailly Lindelof Dalot Fred- pretty much a whole new team in a really short period of time. I much prefer the Ole approach. It’s a much more difficult job.
The football isn’t that much better but he’s been stripping away layers of backup that lots of other managers would have kept around just in case. We had to almost go back to zero and start again. Ole has been pretty fearless/stupid? in that regard going into the season with very little backup but building a good spirit for sure. The core of our new team should really be in place by the end of the summer. Hopefully it’s enough to mount a challenge!!
The football isn’t that much better but he’s been stripping away layers of backup that lots of other managers would have kept around just in case. We had to almost go back to zero and start again. Ole has been pretty fearless/stupid? in that regard going into the season with very little backup but building a good spirit for sure. The core of our new team should really be in place by the end of the summer. Hopefully it’s enough to mount a challenge!!
If we can manage to close the gap to City somewhat on the last stretch, that would be encouraging.
Mourinho's United finished 19 points behind City - which is utterly hopeless. So, yeah - 2nd in itself doesn't mean much.
I am saying the same thing. it is always black and white , there is no grey. The Ole -Outters exaggerate victory and defeat to us being bad so the ole-inners refute every everything to it being a process and we are improving. You can be a ole outter but still have a positive reaction to a victory and or be an ole inner and criticize a performance ( the granada game was just an example i gave because it the most recent). There never seems to be a middle ground and that is what i was trying to say.
Agree with that and I like LVG more than Mourinho but the football under him was excruciating especially that period in his 2nd season. We still never played against the top teams as well as we did under him.
Mourinho's football till the Sanchez signing was around the same as Ole's, probably a bit better but it got worse gradually after that till it reached its lowest point in his 3rd season when he was sabotaging the team.
Absolutely. If we can win our games in hand we'll be 8 points behind which would be encouraging. Anything more than 10 and above though and it's largely meaningless as we'll be closer to third than the winners.
Yeah, it’s not.
Far better than both, short memories here.
Do we park the bus? No.
Do we pass sideways for 90 minutes? No.
Do we usually create a tonne of chances and have we been top scorers in the league until very recently? Yes.
Second place is good for sure, but like under Jose, it's a distant second with no title challenge. In saying that, I certainly didn't expect a title challenge this season whatsoever. I expected a comfortable top four finish, and that looks all but achieved. I also wanted/expected a good cup run and an improvement in our playing style - so again, job done there. I would love to win the EL, as I feel it would be a big milestone for Ole and the team getting a trophy under their belts.
There are/have been negatives this season and with Ole in general - and some make way too many excuses for him. However, I've seen progress and I'm happy enough to go into next season with him at the helm. As-per, some of the praise/criticism is bordering on insanity but it's best ignored. Most are fairly realistic about Ole and where we're at.
Yes.
LVG Ball was basically threading passes round and round for hours and hoping for a slip-up. It was absolute tumescent to watch.
Mourinho Ball went way downhill after we lost Zlatan and at the end it was just lumping balls up to Fellaini. We rarely ever controlled games and kept slipping up with our results. The teams morale was in the drain and you could tell that they lacked confidence.
LVG Ball was basically threading passes round and round for hours and hoping for a slip-up. It was absolute tumescent to watch.
Mourinho Ball went way downhill after we lost Zlatan and at the end it was just lumping balls up to Fellaini. We rarely ever controlled games and kept slipping up with our results. The teams morale was in the drain and you could tell that they lacked confidence.
I agree with the majority of what you've said there. More than happy to go into next season with Ole. I want to see an uptick in the football we play (first half vs. Everton being the standard I'd like to see), as well as improve results in games where it matters (vs. domestic rivals and in the Champions League and FA Cup - that Leicester defeat really fecking hurt), but in general I'd say it has been satisfactory. Most teams around us appear to be in transition so it's a good time to kick on now. No excuses.
My biggest problem with the current way we are playing is the shocking lack of basics. We havnt played well for 90 mins in a very long time. Probably since the Southampton game which we faced against 10 men. Although the performance against city was decent. Giving the ball away quickly after a thrown on, simple lazy giveaways in midfield to the opposition, lack of composure in tight situations, no urgency from our central defenders to get the ball out wide or central, and a lack of one twos, overlaps etc. Its baffling to see such talented players not impose thier qualities against mostly inferior opposition.
I'm very concerned because eventually poor performances will lead a levelling up of luck and come the crunch times like semis, this will lead to us getting knocked out or losing a huge game because we have looked so disjointed for a long time. We simply need to create more chances than we're doing and once the crowds return, any lost will look terribly amplified the way we playing
I'm very concerned because eventually poor performances will lead a levelling up of luck and come the crunch times like semis, this will lead to us getting knocked out or losing a huge game because we have looked so disjointed for a long time. We simply need to create more chances than we're doing and once the crowds return, any lost will look terribly amplified the way we playing
Anyone saying that should be forced to watch any of the following games:
Liverpool - United 3-1 - the last game before Mourinho was fired
65-35 possession - we had 66% passing accuracy and shots were 36-6 for Liverpool
Any game in december 2015 - when we scored 2 goals in 5 matches and hardly created anything
Those were the lowest points for those managers, and soon after they were sacked.
At Ole's lowest point(s) the football was just as dire, the only difference is we didn't fire him.
Difference is he pulled a big result put his arse at the lowest point
Well eventually he would, simply because we refused to sack him and thus gave him ample opportunity to do so.
But regardless, I see little difference between the lows we sank to with other managers vs with Ole.
We didn't sack Jose and Van Gaal when they hit lows first time. Van Gaal was sacked after 2 seasons even he finished 5th, Jose was sacked in 3rd season when we were 6th and he fell out with everyone possible.
If managers were sacked when they hit lows then Van Gaal wouldn't have survived first 10 games, Jose wouldn't have survived first season December.
True. People meme about CL, but it does seem like at the end of the day that is the main requirement for staying in the job at Utd. In Ole's case, it would have been quite awkward sacking him so soon after giving him a permanent contract, so we let him carry on.
In any case, the low points of all of those managers (re the football played) were not vastly different.
Ole got squad depth this past summer. Now he needs upgrades on the starting 11 or we won't do any better than we are right now.
Recent history has been:
New manager. Provide him with a war chest. He qualifies for Champions League. Don't back manager in the market. He fails to qualify for CL. Sack manager. Repeat process.
Ole may well break that mould. Or likely postpone it a year
Recent history has been:
New manager. Provide him with a war chest. He qualifies for Champions League. Don't back manager in the market. He fails to qualify for CL. Sack manager. Repeat process.
Ole may well break that mould. Or likely postpone it a year
Everyone thought LVG was a banker for the sack the Christmas before he was sacked, and Jose lasted longer in the end than most expected.
I did feel Ole was in real danger of the sack circa October to December 2019, and I had totally lost faith by that stage. He then went on a remarkable run in 2020 and finished third. Without that run and CL football, I think he would have been sacked at the end of the season. Happy he's stayed in hindsight, as he's done a great job in many ways. My fear is he won't be able to take us to the next level, but here's to hoping he proves me wrong. His man management and the feel good factor he seems to have brought is fantastic. Either way, when he departs, he will leave us in a far better situation than Jose or LVG did.
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Tomorrow’s our 50th game of the season and our season will be 204 days old, so we’re playing a game every 4 days. Our last uninterrupted season (18/19) took us 257 days to reach 50 games. Or a game every 5 days.
If anyone expects the quality of football to be anything other than laboured they need a reality check.
I don’t really see anybody else playing an amazing brand of football in the prem either. You could argue City but this isn’t a vintage side. Look at what happened to them today even though they’ve got the best squad in Europe.
Let‘s assess the quality of football when we can play down 2 flanks instead of one and hopefully have a regular striker to aim for.
If anyone expects the quality of football to be anything other than laboured they need a reality check.
I don’t really see anybody else playing an amazing brand of football in the prem either. You could argue City but this isn’t a vintage side. Look at what happened to them today even though they’ve got the best squad in Europe.
Let‘s assess the quality of football when we can play down 2 flanks instead of one and hopefully have a regular striker to aim for.
The quality in all teams play has generally gone to utter shite since the turn of the year, especially teams involved in European competitions.
We will likely have to grind out results until the end of the season, with not very inspiring football. Some won't like it, but once we're getting the results, that's all that matters. Our players looked knackered.
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Agreed.
Yeah I thought Van Gaal will be sacked in the December, also thought Ole will be sacked for sure by December when we were very poor. Then he did really well to finish 3rd.
I agree with what you said and I said same thing few times. He has done good job but i don't think he is capable of taking us to next level, to win leagues and CLs.
There is a reason that "zombie passing" thread was popular.
I'm behind Ole, I think what's important to me is he's not turning the club into something unrecognisable from the one I grew up loving. There was a period of time in Van Gaal's time where the players he brought in and the players he sold, the football he played etc didn't feel like Manchester United. Selling Danny Welbeck and bringing in Falcao was something you'd see in Football Manager games where you go, hang on that's not realistic.
Mourinho's first two seasons with his us against the world mentality didn't feel too strange considering we had that back in Fergie's day. Then he decided Jose gonna Jose and began disputing with players publicly through his contacts in the media.
We play okay at times,but our style of play is extremely ponderous,sterile and lacking in imagination.I have always been of the view that unless we sort out some of the structural problems within this squad,we won’t be able to improve beyond a point.No manager in the world can get this team to play swashbuckling football week in,week out.
We need to sign 3 new players this summer-1)A speedy,ball playing CB who can enable us to play a higher line and who’s comfortable defending 1 v 1.2)A deep lying playmaker who can control/set the tempo of the game.3)A world class talent at RW...
Unless we invest heavily in the squad this summer,unfortunately nothing much will change next season.I admire the tenacity,resilience and the never say die spirit that Ole has instilled into this squad.But if we want to take the next step forward,then we need more quality in this squad.
Not doing the basics right i would say is 100% on the players, and not the coaches, but in this case i'd say they are excused.
Covid football have been brutal on the players, and its not just us, but pretty much all the big clubs around Europe has looked relatively poor. Current Serie A leaders Inter ended last in their CL group while Juventus got eliminated by Porto. In La Liga which is close this year, all the top teams are on course to finish with 83 points which is very low in a league where the winner regularly has 90+ and the runner up is close to that
Just in the EPL, pretty much all the top teams besides City have fluctuated between average and shite and even they are just averaging 2,3 PPG, which would but them at 87 points if they keep up the same form for the renaming games
I predict the quality in the Euros is going to dreadful and honestly they should just cancel the whole thing. Having a summer tournament after the grueling season this has been is going to cause a lot of injures across Europe
Yeah it really is. We've played about 50 games this season and I'd say out of those games we've maybe put in about 10 really good performances with the other 40 being between average to absolute meh. You only have to go onto the post match thread after most games to see most of the comments reading something like bad performance but 3 points are all that matters over and over again. Yes so many games could be used as an excuse but that doesn't take away from the fact that normally we don't play good football.
Do we Park the bus? No, you're right. We normally don't but our transitional play from midfield to attack is still painful to watch.
Do we pass sideways for 90 minutes? That's very debatable. A lot of our possession comes from our back 4 playing your ball, my ball if they aren't being put under pressure. Maquire normally averages 66 passes in a game. Bruno who is our play maker normally averages 56 passes per game. Our other talisman this season, Rashford manages around 30 passes per game which shows where most of our possession is during a game.
We may have been top scorers until recently but that was due to a complete anomaly in the Southampton game. Even if we had of won that game 2 or 3 that would of put us around Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester levels. One crazy game really can skew stats.
Sorry totally disagree. The match day threads are an embarrassment of idiotic comments, always has been and always will be.
We don’t pass for passing sake, we are very direct, perhaps too direct. What I would say is our movement off the ball needs a lot of work, as it has for around a decade.
People can dislike the style but it’s provided the most goals in the league until around mid March, that fact tells a story. Especially when you factor in that our forwards have been way out of form compared to last season (apart from Marcus.)
Which means goals are being spread, which means chances are being created, which means there is a pattern to our play, which means we are attacking in our approach, which is totally different to the two previous Dinosaur managers.
I'm not talking about the match day thread which I agree is a vicious place but about the post match thread. Being honest with yourself how many times have you seen written, wasn't pretty, 3 points, we move on? And that's from people who think Ole is the one to take us back to the top. It's been a pattern ever since Ole signed as manager a lot more often than seeing great game, well deserved 3 points. For every one of those there's 3 of the others. Soon after people forget about the performances and concentrate on the result which is where I think is the biggest difference is between the Ole in/out crowd. Some see us second and don't care how we got there while others see us second and think how the hell did we get there with a lot of the performances we've been seeing? Because that isn't sustainable.
When you say our movement off the ball needs a lot of work do you mean coaching wise or because our players are lazy/not good enough? It may be an issue affecting us for the last decade but shouldn't a manager after 2 1/2 years in charge have sorted this out? Considering how fast (less Cavani) all of our forwards are wouldn't it be a huge advantage having those runs become second nature?
I don't agree with us scoring goals all over the pitch as something concrete as an improvement. Our back 4 have scored 6 between them which isn't fantastic. Fred and Matic 0 goals between them, which is pretty normal for their positions. VDB 1 goal which is normal considering the minutes he's played so basically it is the players expected to score, scoring. The only surprise I would say is McT who's scored 4 which is hardly balon d'or numbers but still. I think you'll find many other teams scoring throughout the team so I don't think it's something conclusive to say we're improving as much as you think.
Can you not watch today's game and see what a personality shift there is from being an Ole team instead of a Jose team?
Utter stupid post.
Utter stupid post.
Again, yes it is.
Expected half time bumps .
But yeah guys stop pretending like we normally play like this
But yes That second half is exactly how we’re supposed to play. Just do that every time, every game every half.
Pogba free role, wing backs bombing forward.
One, two touches on the ball, running at people. Even Fred and Mctominay pushing forward.
We barely conceded any chances doing it so just do it from the start!
That whole half proves we don’t have to play as we normally do. It proves the players are capable of those type of performances.
But yeah guys stop pretending like we normally play like this
But yes That second half is exactly how we’re supposed to play. Just do that every time, every game every half.
Pogba free role, wing backs bombing forward.
One, two touches on the ball, running at people. Even Fred and Mctominay pushing forward.
We barely conceded any chances doing it so just do it from the start!
That whole half proves we don’t have to play as we normally do. It proves the players are capable of those type of performances.
Expected half time bumps .
But yeah guys stop pretending like we normally play like this
But yes That second half is exactly how we’re supposed to play. Just do that every time, every game every half.
Pogba free role, wing backs bombing forward.
One, two touches on the ball, running at people. Even Fred and Mctominay pushing forward.
We barely conceded any chances doing it so just do it from the start!
That whole half proves we don’t have to play as we normally do. It proves the players are capable of those type of performances.
I’ve said yes prior to this. This team is comfortably better going forward than the Van Gaal/Mourinho teams. A completely different mindset, often let down by lack of depth and quality which the club has to rectify in the summer.
He got it spot on today. The football for Fred’s goal was the best I can remember in god knows how long.
Leagues better than both Jose and LVG.
We are so much better nowadays. Spirit, fight, teamwork, nice passages of play when we can stretch play. The players are happier and it’s shining through.
Close this thread, bloody stupid