I acknowledged that but added the point that they were also superior players even given your original point( which I don't disagree with).
Is it time to burst “Rashy’s” bubble?
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I acknowledged that but added the point that they were also superior players even given your original point( which I don't disagree with).
No I did not. Read back on my post. I said I was worried his development would be hampered by a lack of guidance.
I never mentioned his form, nor did I mention his performances.
Stop it with your strawman argument.
It's not a strawman argument, there's no need to be so aggressive. His development isn't suffering, he's playing week in week out at a top club against domestic and European teams.
The "old heads failing to perform for close to 5 years" are who exactly - Martial and Lingard who burst onto the team with him? Lukaku who just joined last year? Pogba who joined 2 seasons ago?
It's just a wank excuse to put a blanket over him, sorry. Stunted development my arse. He's playing lots of games for his age at top level, more than he deserves.
Story in papers that he is demanding 300K a week, Is he really that worth ?
Does that question really need asking?
Who would you play ahead of him if he's starting more than he deserves?
Which United forward players are performing more consistently or with more quality than him?
This is such a weird thread. Whatever the problem with our squad is, it definitely isn't Rashford.
It's bizarre of all players, to create a thread to slag off Rashford.
Rashford and Pogba both have flaws, both can do your head in sometimes.
But they've both carried us for months.
Rashford and Pogba both have flaws, both can do your head in sometimes.
But they've both carried us for months.
I wouldn't put Rashford into the same category as Pogba when it comes to carrying this team. It's easy to forget he's lost this team points as well with his dumb decision-making or terrible finishing in the past. Rashford's carried the team this season about as much as Martial carried it once Mourinho brought him back in the starting XI, neither of them are on the level of importance to this club as Pogba.
No one is saying Rashford is the key reason for a holes in the squad. But he's just a very overrated player which is part of the problem (we have overrated the actual quality of our attack).
Rashford comes into the starting XI by default of lack of choice, but that doesn't mean he should be starting for a top club. I don't think he'd start week in and week out at City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs. I don't think Lingard or Martial would either and yet, we always have 2 or 3 of these players featuring week in week out for us.
In my opinion Martial and Rashford have lots of potential but are certainly categorically not ready to carry a side week in week out. Lingard serves as a squad option or as a good balance option to join midfield and attack, like how Arsenal use Iwobi. That's about it.
A big problem at the club (and with some fans) is that they have placed too high value on players that are not yet top players. It's all too presumptious.
We should be going in for one or two attackers that would be more established and consistent. Rashford is far from ready to be a main man yet.
Is he the only player to miss a chance or make a bad decision in our team? Because if not this is a really stupid reason to single him out and pick on him.
It's also ironic that the thread is going on about "bursting Rashford's bubble"...a player who has not shown even a hint of an ego or attitude problem and who works harder than all of our other forwards, and who actually seems to thrive on confidence.
Meanwhile you're on about Pogba, who's ego (like him or loathe him) has already helped cost us a manager this season, regularly has a negative effect on his performances, and currently has him flirting around with Real Madrid.
Part of the problem here is the group of fans we have who will slag off players like Rashford for next to nothing, yet other players can take a big steaming dump on their face and they'll defend them for it.
We only have one player who's performed consistently to a higher level than the rest of the squad, and that's De Gea. Trying to elevate any other player above the rest of the squad is just blind favouritism really.
But he's not being singled out, look at the Martial, Lukaku, Pogba threads....it's incredible to think Rashford is the one singled out.
Also, if Pogba's ego cost you Mourinho (and btw, it didn't....Jose did that well on his own), you should be grateful.
I don't think he's a top player yet and he has some improving to do in order to get there. What I don't get is how on earth this is a reason to single him out and slag him off.
If he had an attitude problem or didn't work hard enough it'd be different, but he's precisely the opposite of that. What good is bursting his bubble going to do exactly? Do people want ole to come out saying he is shite every week?
Again, people on here are completely bonkers
This is a thread singling out Rashford. Are you disputing that?
Pogbas ego most definitely contributed to Mourinho losing his job. Remember the Spurs gane last year where he had to be taken off because he was refusing to follow mourinhos instructions? Claiming pogba's ego was mot a problem for Jose is juat plain lying at this point.
I don't think there is a situation where fans should be "grateful" that a player is too far up their own arse to listen to the manager.
Didn't catch the full match today but from the highlights it looked like a much improved performance from Rashford, hopefully he can keep it up and we'll all be happy.
Don't be such a cry baby about people criticising Rashford. He's been absolutely terrible in recent games and deserved a lot of criticism. Next time he's abject for a run of games i'm sure people will point it out. It's fair enough at a top level club. Doesn't mean you have to take down your Rashford shrine or anything.
Who is slagging him off? I'm just saying he's not at the level expected of a first team United player.
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."
Nowhere did I mention his performances. Nor did I "imply" his performances are suffering due to a lack of guidance.
Good post.
You did imply. Thanks for explaining the definition of strawman. It has feck all to do with this thread or our sub discussion. Good work.
I didn't. You might fancy yourself a mind reader but you're not.
I watched most of the game yesterday, so I find this thread (in relation to the game yesterday....) a little strange. Rashford did not even start the match! When he came on, he had more of an impact on the game that the rest of our 'forwards' put together. And who ends up playing as a left midfielder? Marcus Rashford.
We have Lukaku, Mata, Martial, Lindgard, and Marcus Rashford as our attacking options. That's our reality. Me, personally,would take just one from that five, and that's Rashford. The rest simply do not show that they are up for the consistent level of performance required, or / and they simply do not have the talent and ability we require.
Not saying you get rid of all straight away, but looking ahead, I can't see that front line firing us to Prem glory. CL is a little different, with the 'one-off' nature of some games (note PSG..), but I still cannot see us really making an impact in CL, unless we have a lot of luck.. (which I would most certainly welcome by the way...!)
Rashford is a super talent and a super player. Not the finished article yet of course, but anyone expecting that is a little misguided. He needs coaching, and focus. He should have scored that header yesterday... you cannot be a No 9, at any big club if you cannot score with your head ffs. None , and I mean none , of our forwards convince me with their heading for goal. We carry little aerial threat at all.
Pogba (surprise, surprise..) is the only one I have seen, make a run into the box and attack the ball with his head. Antonio nearly won the game for West Ham yesterday by attacking the ball with his head.
We have Lukaku, Mata, Martial, Lindgard, and Marcus Rashford as our attacking options. That's our reality. Me, personally,would take just one from that five, and that's Rashford. The rest simply do not show that they are up for the consistent level of performance required, or / and they simply do not have the talent and ability we require.
Not saying you get rid of all straight away, but looking ahead, I can't see that front line firing us to Prem glory. CL is a little different, with the 'one-off' nature of some games (note PSG..), but I still cannot see us really making an impact in CL, unless we have a lot of luck.. (which I would most certainly welcome by the way...!)
Rashford is a super talent and a super player. Not the finished article yet of course, but anyone expecting that is a little misguided. He needs coaching, and focus. He should have scored that header yesterday... you cannot be a No 9, at any big club if you cannot score with your head ffs. None , and I mean none , of our forwards convince me with their heading for goal. We carry little aerial threat at all.
Pogba (surprise, surprise..) is the only one I have seen, make a run into the box and attack the ball with his head. Antonio nearly won the game for West Ham yesterday by attacking the ball with his head.
I'd take him of course. even though he wouldn't get in the starting xi, he'd be as good as you'd want from a backup player and in time probably good enough to be first choice as well.
This whole building the team around him thing you've got going is a bit mad though. I see him as an Andy Cole level player in the future. A player good enough to be a starter at a top club who is nonetheless always going to be in danger of losing his place to a better player as there are a fair few of those around.
If he were put up for sale and the hype wasn't a factor, I'd peg him as a 50m player.
I don't need to read any minds. You say you're worried about his development because of older heads that haven't been achieving for 5 years and "Ole has only been here for 2 mins"..and then you claim you didn't imply his performance is lacking due to lack of guidance.
Let's just discuss Rashford instead of talking rubbish, hey?
Utter bonkers this thread. Could say the same nonsense for every single forward in this team, except it's the youngest one being judged of course. Rashford has infact been our best forward this season and that's no small thing. Even when he doesn't have a great game he's always pressing and putting in a shift. The likes of Lingard, Mata, Martial, Lukaku have been so hot and cold it's ridiculous.
People can criticise who they want. I'm just trying to understand the logic of this thread. He doesn't have any attitude problem. He doesn't play with too much arrogance. The one thing he does is try too hard, and starts snatching at or trying to force things.
If all of our players were guilty of trying too hard we wouldn't be in 6th place, so to be honest singling him out is somewhat bizarre. If we're talking about his quality then he still isn't really the place to start. He's been better than Mata, Sanchez, Martial, Lingard and for the most part Lukaku this season. That's literally all of our other attacking players. He is the youngest of the lot of them yet also already the most reliable, despite being inconsistent and showing inexperience in his game. THis probably tells you more about our other players than about him, but here we are criticisin Rashford for not being good enough to carry the rest of them.
It is not crybabying. This always happens on here. People will start to pick on the best performing of our forward players as soon as we start not winning games, based onsome pre-conceived idea or hunch they had about them from 2 years ago or something. It happened with Lukaku last season even though he had 28 goals and was responsible for about half the games we won. Last season he was criticised for, I dunno, not being Harry Kane? Now Rashford is being criticised for not being Messi or Ronaldo (quite literally in some posts)
I mostly agree with your post, except for that price. In this market it's just too low. His potential alone would ensure that, but he is also an established England and Man Utd first teamer at a low age.
Fair post. Agree with all that.
Great OP. Been saying this for a while now, is attitude stinks. If the first thing doesn't go for him in a game, he strops his way through the rest of play like a petulant kid.
His ability is unquestionable, but his attitude needs a boot up the reset button.
He's believing the hype.
His ability is unquestionable, but his attitude needs a boot up the reset button.
He's believing the hype.
I've no problem with people having misgivings about Rashford being a 'top player' (however you define that) or a debate around whether we think he'll be a long-term starter for us, a squad player or a starter elsewhere. A discussion of that sort is worth having as we've seen enough of Rashford to see the player he is and the player he could be.
However packaged in a new thread talking about 'bursting his bubble' as if he's some Flash Harry is strange; he works his balls off whenever he's asked to pull on a shirt, sometimes with good results sometimes not. That could be indicative of him being young player, perhaps him actually being an inconsistent player, but not him being an arrogant player in need of a reality check in my view.
I don't know for example where this assessment comes from:
I don't see that at all. He's been one of our better performers this season, though still inconsistent like just about everything at this club since Fergie left. This thread reminds me of a tabloid news story where the body copy has no relation to the ridiculous 'gotcha' headline.
However packaged in a new thread talking about 'bursting his bubble' as if he's some Flash Harry is strange; he works his balls off whenever he's asked to pull on a shirt, sometimes with good results sometimes not. That could be indicative of him being young player, perhaps him actually being an inconsistent player, but not him being an arrogant player in need of a reality check in my view.
I don't know for example where this assessment comes from:
I don't see that at all. He's been one of our better performers this season, though still inconsistent like just about everything at this club since Fergie left. This thread reminds me of a tabloid news story where the body copy has no relation to the ridiculous 'gotcha' headline.
Rashford has definitely shown some signs of petulance and had some games under Jose where his attitude and decision making were embarrassing.
Saying that, I don't think it has been anywhere near that bad under Ole. There have been a number of times when I've questioned Ole leaving him on the pitch while withdrawing better performing teammates.
But it's obvious that Ole leaves him on because he trusts him to make a difference. Ole generally seems to trust academy players more than the other players in the squad and values the mentality they developed coming through the academy.
Saying that, I don't think it has been anywhere near that bad under Ole. There have been a number of times when I've questioned Ole leaving him on the pitch while withdrawing better performing teammates.
But it's obvious that Ole leaves him on because he trusts him to make a difference. Ole generally seems to trust academy players more than the other players in the squad and values the mentality they developed coming through the academy.
I agree, Rashford is still not a prolific 30 goal a season forward, that every top team needs. I think he would fair better with another big CF to feed off. It is the tap ins and being a fox in the box that he still has to learn and polish up on.
Still think he hasn't gotten over that nasty ankle injury. Hasn't looked himself at all. First touch was poor in west ham game and has been lacking service. Any that have come to him he has snatched or rushed at it.
Burst it 
He has been utterly ineffective recently, and his free kicks and corners are beyond awful.
Money money money, they get a few good results, and performances , they want double there wages.
I honestly think if Barca want him sell him, even if they offer £65 -75 million. Just get rid of theses types of players who just want more when they don't deserve it.
I honestly think if Barca want him sell him, even if they offer £65 -75 million. Just get rid of theses types of players who just want more when they don't deserve it.
Feck his free kick efforts. Hure up there with Luiz in terms of uselessness on them
He might burst it himself with one of his shots .
TBH this thread can be applied to the lot of em after that effort. Just annoys me that because he is English, he'll probably survive the media criticism re:attititude.
Play mason in his place.
Let's see how rash responds
Let's see how rash responds
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