Is it sensible to carry on with Bruno as the focal point of our team next season?

Bastian

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I think he's been an absolutely outstanding player for most of his United career. And I like him. Nonetheless, I wondered before Erik took over whether his brand of football would be suitable for a possession oriented team (let's assume that Erik will want more control in games going forward, despite the back and forth messaging from him).

He over-performed in his first few seasons with Ole's counter attacking football, both in terms of goals and assists. Tapered off a little in Erik's first season and hasn't really come back from that. Now of course he's had to contend with the same thing all the other non-injured players have to this season in so far as there hasn't been a settled back four nor a settled midfield and that has obviously affecta our general play (see @BenitoSTARR 's injury thread). However, we have, like we did under Rangnick, squandered so many chances this season and Bruno is definitely doing his part there. He's erratic in and out of possession, though it's mainly with the ball that his tendency to constantly create a goal scoring opportunity at the cost of ball retention and possibly better goal scoring opportunities that I feel let's the collective down, not least in terms of transitioning our style of play.

We have now got an absolutely top class prospect in midfield who is born to play a more progressive style of football and today (against Luton) we saw how far above the rest of our midfielders he is technically, in terms of composure and game intelligence. And he's 18. Next season Bruno will be 30 and he still has a couple of years running on his contract.

For different reasons I would raise tactical suitability in the case of Rashford and Maguire, but Maguire has been transformed into a squad player (likely sold if any takers this summer) while Rashford is worth a conversation in another thread. Erik obviously made Bruno captain and bigs him up at every opportunity, but he also bigged up de Gea throughout last season and now he's without a club. And the captaincy is a tricky thing with a leaderless team (bar Martinez). Bruno might court quite a bit of interest and we could likely break even (not adjusting for inflation) by selling him.

Some might think of this as heresy but I genuinely wonder about how many supporters think for all his individual brilliance collectively we could be a better team without him.
 
I've been thinking how long do we go on with Bruno, not because I think he's a bad player but he is close to 30 and a player that relies on his legs (yeah yeah make a joke)

I wouldn't be surprised if Saudi Arabia comes in with an offer this summer or next and we'd need to really consider taking it.
 
Bastian said:
I think he's been an absolutely outstanding player for most of his United career. And I like him. Nonetheless, I wondered before Erik took over whether his brand of football would be suitable for a possession oriented team (let's assume that Erik will want more control in games going forward, despite the back and forth messaging from him).

He over-performed in his first few seasons with Ole's counter attacking football, both in terms of goals and assists. Tapered off a little in Erik's first season and hasn't really come back from that. Now of course he's had to contend with the same thing all the other non-injured players have to this season in so far as there hasn't been a settled back four nor a settled midfield and that has obviously affecta our general play (see @BenitoSTARR 's injury thread). However, we have, like we did under Rangnick, squandered so many chances this season and Bruno is definitely doing his part there. He's erratic in and out of possession, though it's mainly with the ball that his tendency to constantly create a goal scoring opportunity at the cost of ball retention and possibly better goal scoring opportunities that I feel let's the collective down, not least in terms of transitioning our style of play.

We have now got an absolutely top class prospect in midfield who is born to play a more progressive style of football and today (against Luton) we saw how far above the rest of our midfielders he is technically, in terms of composure and game intelligence. And he's 18. Next season Bruno will be 30 and he still has a couple of years running on his contract.

For different reasons I would raise tactical suitability in the case of Rashford and Maguire, but Maguire has been transformed into a squad player (likely sold if any takers this summer) while Rashford is worth a conversation in another thread. Erik obviously made Bruno captain and bigs him up at every opportunity, but he also bigged up de Gea throughout last season and now he's without a club. And the captaincy is a tricky thing with a leaderless team (bar Martinez). Bruno might court quite a bit of interest and we could likely break even (not adjusting for inflation) by selling him.

Some might think of this as heresy but I genuinely wonder about how many supporters think for all his individual brilliance collectively we could be a better team without him.
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I feel a little ashamed that I have recently been thinking the same.

I do like him a hell of a lot but he costs us so much sometimes. If there is a serious money offer then I would take it.
 
He should be in competition with Mount and maybe one more for his spot. If his form dips, he should be given a rest. I don't think we should be selling him as he still has huge upsides. Just he should be playing about 65%-70% of the time instead of a 100%, and he should be looking over his shoulder to keep his spot.
 
I don't think that he's a problem, but he needs to be more accurate. Especially with his shooting.

I have no complaints when it comes to his fitness, workrate, defensive work and overall passing and ball retention. It's his crazy inaccuracy in or around the box when he has a good opportunity to score that makes me pull my hair. It's been especially bad this season. But that also means that he can improve. He used to be good enough in this aspect.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Bruno would be amazing in an actual system.
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He looked better when we had lesser players around him. He might look better, but I generally agree with those that assume that he'd look out of place in a more possession oriented team.

talking robot said:
He should be in competition with Mount and maybe one more for his spot. If his form dips, he should be given a rest. I don't think we should be selling him as he still has huge upsides. Just he should be playing about 65%-70% of the time instead of a 100%, and he should be looking over his shoulder to keep his spot.
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This would be my preference too, as I think he's got so many good qualities, but can he be Maguired?
 
I think we should move him on. As rafiki once said, it is time.
 
Bastian said:
This would be my preference too, as I think he's got so many good qualities, but can he be Maguired?
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Maybe you can bring in someone who may be better and let him prove he still has it. The problem this summer is that would mean prioritising his position over others that may be more urgent when we already have two very good players there in him and Mount. I'd say just let them fight it out and focus transfer attention elsewhere this window.
 
He was woeful today. The amount of spaffed passes and wastefulness in possession. He’s like Steven Gerrard in those last few seasons at Liverpool. We should move him on or at least give Amad a go in his position.
 
In a team that boasts a calamity like Onana, an injury prone Shaw, a CB pairing that changes all the time, a Casemiro who looks ready for retirement and a highly inconsistent and honestly kind of lazy Rashford, all in the starting XI with no serious competition, Bruno is basically a non-factor.

Martinez (26)
Dalot (24)
Mainoo (18)
Garnacho (19)
Højlund (21)

They are the future. We must build around them. But Shaw and Bruno should also stick around. Varane and Rashford can also stay, but ideally I don't want them in the starting XI next season.
 
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The captaincy hasn’t helped him at all. If he had a Roy Keane behind who ate the head off him every time he gave the ball away cheaply he’d be absolutely world class.

As is, he is the example setter in the team and the example he is setting when it comes to doing the basics properly simply isn’t good enough.
 
We need to build a team that is capable of keeping possession of a football.

Anyone who is loose, sloppy in possession and consistently makes bad decisions should be on the chopping block, which to be fair is most of the squad.

You can't build a team that's good in possession with Bruno as your main man, he's a turnover machine.
 
Scandi Red said:
In a team that boasts a calamity like Onana, an injury prone Shaw, a CB pairing that changes all the time, a Casemiro who looks ready for retirement and a highly inconsistent and honestly kind of lazy Rashford, all in the starting XI with no serious competition, Bruno is basically a non-factor.

Martinez (26)
Dalot (24)
Mainoo (18)
Garnacho (19)
Højlund (21)

They are the future. We must build around them. But Shaw and Bruno should also stick around. Varane and Rashford can also stay, but ideally I don't want them in the starting XI next season.
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Can’t sneak Bruno in with Shaw as if they are similar standards for me. Shaw is a miles better player. Bruno needs to go, and was always a player that would need to go the very day we decided we were going to get serious and become a very top side.
 
Rozay said:
Can’t sneak Bruno in with Shaw as if they are similar standards for me. Shaw is a miles better player.
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Well I disagree (and that's even excluding Shaw's injuries), but I sense that this discussion will take us nowhere so I'll leave it at that.
 
He's definitely flawed but he's still one of our better players. I don't see the point in selling him unless it's for a LOT of money and/or we have a good replacement ready. We've bigger problems.
 
He is one of the best players I've ever seen in picking passes on a counter attack, but he has dropped a level since 2-3 years ago and I don't think we'll be a dominant team with him in it. It's a shame that we dropped a load of money on a back-up who is never available.
 
Bastian said:
He looked better when we had lesser players around him. He might look better, but I generally agree with those that assume that he'd look out of place in a more possession oriented team.

This would be my preference too, as I think he's got so many good qualities, but can he be Maguired?
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We have never attempted to be a possession oriented team. The way he's playing right now is 100% tactical and intended by the manager. It's been two years and he'd be mad to continue playing him if he wasn't listening to his instructions.
 
I think posters are knee jerking.

he played poorly today we can all see that. But it was uncharacteristically bad, in a hostile, tiny pitched hell hole.

However He’s had a number of really mature performances recently where he has been comfortable and restrained in possession.

and no matter what, he always remains productive.

his fitness record and work rate also go in his favour. Clearly not perfect and gives away possession to easily , but its unfair to judge him on a day like today where’s he’s played his worst.

There are other holes in the squad that need filling first.
 
Probably not. On today's showing the same is also true of Casemiro and Rashford.
 
Type of player that can score a winner in a final so nah
 
I 100% get all the issues with Bruno but the thought of not having him in the team is scary. Other than him we have no ideas at all. We'd be boring to watch unless he was replaced with a similar player that's better at keeping the ball. But Mount or somebody of that ilk? No chance.

As bad as Bruno is he has masked weak tactics for years now for us.
 
Bruno is a quality player, gives absolutely everything for us and deserves to stay long enough to actually win something notable here.

He also plays wherever the manager tells him to play and I'm sure he'd be willing to fight for his place if it were ever in serious competition.

All that said, I was seething earlier when he gave the ball back in the 93rd minute... I was just waiting for them to score off the back of that stupid mistake.
 
I'm not in a rush to replace him outright, but I think that there's a strong argument for resting him more often or at least rotating him to keep him fresh. According to wiki (not the best of links, I know), he played 59 games last season, 46 the year before, and 58 the year before that. This season, he's already on 33. That's a large volume of games. He's been incredible at keeping fit and available, so that side of his game is not an issue. But, with the sheer number of matches he plays, I think you can still be mentally and physically tired from that, and that will therefore hinder him from playing at his optimal performance level.

As a club, we've not done an amazing job at providing challenges for him in his position, neither have we rotated him with the players that can also play in his position. There has to be a smarter way of doing it. It's not viable to play the same 11 every week for every competition and keep performing at a high level, with the amount of games that takes place over a season and with the number of competitions available. We have to rotate and we have to do it better. Scott McTominay coming on towards the end of games when we're chasing a win has proven to be a smart decision, as has the likes of Jonny Evans coming in to toughen up the defence. But we can't seem to provide the same level of cover further up the pitch.
 
He was really poor today but he is still one of our best players by a mile.

My issue with getting rid of him would be that I can't think of someone we would be likely to get in that would bring all the positives of Bruno with better care of the ball.

I worry we'd be in another Onana situation where we ended up replacing Bruno with a player that brought what he lacked, but ended up being nowhere near as good overall.
 
Yes. Because we dont have someone else for the role.

We can remedy that in the future but right now hes the best we have in the link between midfield and attack whilst setting up chances and getting some goals.

McTominay could play there and score more than Bruno is at the moment but he'd be less involved and we'd be worse on counter attacks because Bruno sets us going a lot. Without him we'd lack ideas and our midfield would have less passing options. Amad? Firstly he needs to get back to his championship form after injury, then raise it to premier league level and almost all of his time on loan was on the wing. So he would have a lot to prove. I think it would be smart for him to bring him on for Bruno at around 75 mins each game so he can learn the position a bit and Bruno isnt the best at retaining the ball.

Mount looks like he was plan B but he cant seem to stay fit and when he did play he was barely any better than Van De Beek in the AM role so... Not holding my breath for him to return this season and do better than Bruno as an AM. We could also give Sam Mather some minutes in the middle to see how he does there but he'd have even more to prove than Amad and its far more likely he'd get his minutes coming on for Rashford.

But yes come the summer I would like us to take a good look at the situation and have a better solution for next season as our alternative to Bruno through the middle. Whether its Amad, a young player or a new arrival. I think signing someone who would outright replace him in the team as plan A would require astronomical money and we probably wouldnt be the choice those players choose if they are available. Wirtz for example, sure that would be great... Now how do you convince him to join the team thats 6th in the premier league? Teams top 3 in their league will be after him. And im sure that goes for the next guy you think of too.
 
To be honest, what should be our 3 best players, seem to be holding us back in the ETH system. Whether or not you agree with ETH style, Varane, Casemiro & Bruno struggle in this system.

I'm thinking if you are cutting costs and sticking with the manager, these 3 probably need to be replaced somehow.
 
Bastian said:
I think he's been an absolutely outstanding player for most of his United career. And I like him. Nonetheless, I wondered before Erik took over whether his brand of football would be suitable for a possession oriented team (let's assume that Erik will want more control in games going forward, despite the back and forth messaging from him).

He over-performed in his first few seasons with Ole's counter attacking football, both in terms of goals and assists. Tapered off a little in Erik's first season and hasn't really come back from that. Now of course he's had to contend with the same thing all the other non-injured players have to this season in so far as there hasn't been a settled back four nor a settled midfield and that has obviously affecta our general play (see @BenitoSTARR 's injury thread). However, we have, like we did under Rangnick, squandered so many chances this season and Bruno is definitely doing his part there. He's erratic in and out of possession, though it's mainly with the ball that his tendency to constantly create a goal scoring opportunity at the cost of ball retention and possibly better goal scoring opportunities that I feel let's the collective down, not least in terms of transitioning our style of play.

We have now got an absolutely top class prospect in midfield who is born to play a more progressive style of football and today (against Luton) we saw how far above the rest of our midfielders he is technically, in terms of composure and game intelligence. And he's 18. Next season Bruno will be 30 and he still has a couple of years running on his contract.

For different reasons I would raise tactical suitability in the case of Rashford and Maguire, but Maguire has been transformed into a squad player (likely sold if any takers this summer) while Rashford is worth a conversation in another thread. Erik obviously made Bruno captain and bigs him up at every opportunity, but he also bigged up de Gea throughout last season and now he's without a club. And the captaincy is a tricky thing with a leaderless team (bar Martinez). Bruno might court quite a bit of interest and we could likely break even (not adjusting for inflation) by selling him.

Some might think of this as heresy but I genuinely wonder about how many supporters think for all his individual brilliance collectively we could be a better team without him.
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I do tend to agree with your assessment from an overall perspective moving forward, however I would challenge the assumption that EtH wants to play a posession-based system and how EtH utilises him.

EtH said that he wants United to be the "best transition team in the world", so I'm starting to wonder what has gone wrong here. Hypothetically, with players like Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho and Hojlund, we already have the tools up front to do that. The worry for me is that on paper we have the perfect attack "on paper" to achieve what EtH has stated, but we're nowhere near it.

I know many of us expected EtH to "do an Ajax" with United, but was all of that EtH or more like a cultural Ajax thing? There are clubs, like Ajax and Barcelona, who will produce players no matter who the manager is, to play a certain way. Are we giving EtH too much credit for a "total football" output at Ajax, when in fact he has shown no real desire to replicate that thus far?

Just throwing it out there for debate. I'm more concerned as to why we can't execute the style EtH has stated he wants to perfect with the profile of players we have, and not really what our style will be in the future and whether the players here will be suited to that.
 
No he should be moved on. I can’t even see the benefit of him anymore in that advanced role. In his first couple of years, he scored enough to compensate for the lack of control now he just has a decent goal record.

We would be far better off playing 3 CMs that operate as a unit rather than having him go rogue off the ball and hero ball in possession.

Liverpool went years without a proper CAM after selling Coutinho and it didn’t affect them at all.
 
When we had zero hope, bruno came and instantly made impact. I will forever remember him for that. We are a different side from that 2020 Ole team, moving forward he needs replacing. But not a second before shipping rashford, mcguire, onana and sancho.
Bruno is still functional 5-10 games a season.
 
No it's not sensible, I really believe that Mount was meant to replace Bruno and EtH was going to phase him out this year.
 
You are always going to have risk takers in possession, and Bruno is absolutely one of those.

One of the reasons why some fans ended up booing Giggs was because he gave the ball away a lot, but that was generally through taking risks in possession in order to create chances. It doesn't excuse booing a player as brilliant as Giggs, which was pathetic given his contribution to the club, but it explains why the likes of Bruno take a lot of flak when they go through a rough patch: it seems like they are constantly stuffing things up even though they are just trying to make something happen.

Despite only having three assists this seasson, he's apparently created more chances in the league this season than, well, anybody.

Just give him time and he will be back. He's a creative player and when creative players go through lapses in form, it's more exaggerated because they are not there to play percentage passes.
 
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