Is Garnacho about to be "Cavanied"? | No

I mean his intention must surely be a pure one and he’s commending Onana’s strength of character and bravery. However, surely common sense should prevail that that is a really inept thing to post in this day and age.

The depths of our players’ stupidity simply knows no bounds.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Totally with you.

He doesn’t just not have the weakest , flimsiest skin (ala Sancho and the kind of mob calling for Garnachos head), he’s also prepared to stand up for his team mate and call out the bullsh*t. That’s a player you want in your corner when the going gets tough.

This attack on common sense has to be challanged.
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You can argue it is common sense not to post what Garnacho did.
 
Kellyiom said:
Yeah! Glad you said it because I'm lost for words. These guys really are dumb, their lifestyles must insulate them from the real world so much that it's unreal. After everything that's been happening, you would think...
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I understand why he used a gorilla, it signifies strength and power. I just think regardless of what the meaning was or is, it's just a simple case of knowing how using that particular emoji would be perceived and taken out of context in this instance.
 
I really like that response from Onana. The FA may still ban Garnacho, but they will look really stupid doing it.
 
I'm certain Garnacho meant no harm, it's good Onana made a statement, however it doesn't simply end there. It's not a private conversation between the two players, this happened on social media viewed by millions and we don't get to chose who takes offence or finds it upsetting. A ban is unnecessary, but it does need looking into by the club, more social media training perhaps. You play for this club you have a responsibility to it fans.
 
neon_badger said:
I'm certain Garnacho meant no harm, it's good Onana made a statement, however it doesn't simply end there. It's not a private conversation between the two players, this happened on social media viewed by millions and we don't get to chose who takes offence or finds it upsetting. A ban is unnecessary, but it does need looking into by the club, more social media training perhaps. You play for this club you have a responsibility to it fans.
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Why would this even be a question? They are teammates complimenting eachother. Why would anyone even remotely think Garnacho meant to intentionally harm Onana? :lol:
 
VorZakone said:
Why would this even be a question? They are teammates complimenting eachother. Why would anyone even remotely think Garnacho meant to intentionally harm Onana? :lol:
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Because we live in a post-modern world where logic, common sense, etc are becoming less relevant in the public realm.
 
pascell said:
Didn't Mendy try to defend Silva?
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Yeah, he did. Onana not taking offence is unfortunately irrelevant. There are lots of things friends might say to each other - with no offence taken - that would be completely inappropriate to say on a public forum.

To be clear, I don't think this is one of those things. Just countering the idea that Onana not taking offence means this is a non-issue.
 
VorZakone said:
Why would this even be a question? They are teammates complimenting eachother. Why would anyone even remotely think Garnacho meant to intentionally harm Onana? :lol:
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It's not a question, to clarify i mean to cause harm beyond Onana, that's my point, it's not a conversation between two people, instagram is like this forum, I'm replying to you but I'm well aware others are reading this, in Garnacho's case millions can view what he says, players needs to remember this.
 
laughtersassassin said:
I categorically disagree with that. I'd call Allison a beast of a goalkeeper. I call Haaland a beast. I call Hojlund a beast in terms of his physique. And Onana was a beast to win us that game on Tuesday.

If people want to pretend calling a sport person a beast offensive then I quite frankly think that's ridiculous.
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Yep. I use "beast" word for lots of players. And i will keep doing it because, as you said, it is completely ridiculous to view that as offensive.
 
Jippy said:
The level of abuse Garnacho is getting here is bizarre. He deleted it quick when people flagged it could be misconstrued.
Some cultures aren't as hyper-sensitive about race like the UK and US when no offence is clearly meant.
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Garnacho grew up in Spain. Spanish people know comparing black people to gorillas is something racists have done for a long time. Their fans do it enough to black players in La Liga. It has nothing to do with UK culture being sensitive to this. Everybody around the entire world knows the connotations here.

I don't think Garnacho meant it in a racist way, but he has to know how posting something like that is going to look. Yes, I do think he is dumb for posting this.
 
Taribo's Gap said:
You really don't understand why people have an issue with primates, in particular, being compared to black people?
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man is a primate. Its the pathetic world of social media thats turned a beautiful animal as one thats now deem inferior and so racist per se. If such an emoji is used to insult i get it thats deemed as racist but if used to complement, comparing the strongest primate, the Gorilla to a man,s power how is that then racist. I standby my post, its a crazy stupid, hypersensitive do gooding world.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Well that right there is the big societal issue we should all be addressing. Do you think this is racist? If the answer is no then what actually is the issue?
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There are racist connotations and history regarding the comparison of black people to gorillas and in football cases of players being abused on social media after certain incidents by people posting a gorilla emoji which is intentional racism. Due to those racial connotations, despite Garnacho not meaning or trying to imply an association with the gorilla emoji and Onana's race, it is better to avoid doing so. It's unfortunate that due to these societal and historic issues that people jump to wrong conclusions in these instances but it is present and we have to be cautious due to that.

EDIT - As others have pointed out, the reference of the emoji to Maguire also shows that Garnacho did not imply any racial intention to the post either.

Does that mean Garnacho should be banned or is racist? Nah, but perhaps education in terms of social media and these connotations and why they may be better avoided in future.

In regards to racism always being about intention? Not true. Racial biases exist and while as a society we may not mean to apply them, due to history and how society still is to this day they do exist. There was a study a few years ago about punditry and how white players were given more plaudits for technicality and non-white players for more physical attributes and the racial biases existing in these respects despite players being the opposite of their descriptions (footballing wise). Not intentional but can still be racist.
 
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Honestly, this "offended on behalf-of" circle-jerk is so toxic, and not helpful AT ALL to address the issues of institutional racism and discrimination.

For reference if you google "gorilla emoji meaning" you consistently get hits like this:
https://www.wikihow.com/What-Does-the-Gorilla-Emoji-Mean#:~:text=A emoji symbolizes strength and power.&text=It can also describe a,little rough around the edges.

A Gorilla emoji symbolizes strength and power.

We're just sooo primed for these racism issues in football that everything is interpreted in that context. Real action is needed, not banning young idiots who mean no harm.
 
It could be a racist act, but that doesn't mean that Garnacho is a racist person. The act should be addressed and he should be made informed of the inappropriateness of likening a black man to a gorilla, even if intended as a compliment. Personally I don't think a punishment would be fair or helpful.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
You could argue that’s because of the stupid society we live in. Racism is all about intent and always has been.
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Insane
Rainy nights in Stoke said:
Honestly, this "offended on behalf-of" circle-jerk is so toxic, and not helpful AT ALL to address the issues of institutional racism and discrimination.

For reference if you google "gorilla emoji meaning" you consistently get hits like this:
https://www.wikihow.com/What-Does-the-Gorilla-Emoji-Mean#:~:text=A emoji symbolizes strength and power.&text=It can also describe a,little rough around the edges.

A Gorilla emoji symbolizes strength and power.

We're just sooo primed for these racism issues in football that everything is interpreted in that context. Real action is needed, not banning young idiots who mean no harm.
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This is the text from the bottom of the link you posted.....
"Warning
Images of gorillas, apes, or monkeys are historically racist when they’re used to disparage or insult Black and African people. Be cautious when you use the (gorilla) emoji to avoid unintentionally offending someone."
 
neon_badger said:
This is text taken from the bottom of the link you provided.....
"Warning
Images of gorillas, apes, or monkeys are historically racist when they’re used to disparage or insult Black and African people. Be cautious when you use the (gorilla) emoji to avoid unintentionally offending someone."
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Bit in bold is important, no?
 
Plot twist: Maguire is the one taking offence being portrayed as a gorilla securing Garnacho a 6 games ban.

Racism is for the most parts a constructed problem based on someone told to be offended by the amount of melanin pigments in their skin. The very fact that someone from another race is implying someone should take offence for being compared to a gorilla (or whatever other animal) because of that is in it self the core of the problem. It's so fecking stupid and it's only good for creating an inferiority complex to the party affected that shouldn't be there in the first place. And the feeling of being offended is tought by society, obviously.

The ironic part is that the ones that are smart enough to ignore race is the one that have the greatest chance of being portrayed as racists first in todays society.
Instead of focusing on the real problem, the structural racism (racial prejudice and discrimination), that for the most part is created by wealth distribution in geographical areas together with the instinctual fear for someone that's not similar to itself, the feelings-police decide to focus on Cavanis and Garnachos. It just doesn't make sense.
 
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neon_badger said:
This is text taken from the bottom of the link you provided.....
"Warning
Images of gorillas, apes, or monkeys are historically racist when they’re used to disparage or insult Black and African people. Be cautious when you use the (gorilla) emoji to avoid unintentionally offending someone."
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Fair enough - I didn't even bother to read that far.. more fool me.

The intention of my post remains though, I don't see how mock outrage is helpful. Does it change the culture? So far evidence would suggest it just contributes to dividing society. Systemic racism is a problem, and it isn't being sufficiently adressed in real, tangible ways.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Two humans. One white and one black. Magure and Onana. This needs to be repeated, as it's getting ignored.
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Exactly. Two match winners were given the same accolade: strong, determined, powerful winners on a tough night.

Ignoring Maguire’s inclusion in the image shows the hyper-focus some have on race. Maguire is being complimented here too. Saying one emoji is racist and the other emoji is a compliment is illogical.
 
I think Jay from Stretford Paddock has a very good point. He is a teenager. They do dumb stuff and dont think things through. But given he is also a United player he has a huge social media following. united should be much better at helping these young lads with social media training.
 
CloneMC16 said:
Garnacho grew up in Spain. Spanish people know comparing black people to gorillas is something racists have done for a long time. Their fans do it enough to black players in La Liga. It has nothing to do with UK culture being sensitive to this. Everybody around the entire world knows the connotations here.

I don't think Garnacho meant it in a racist way, but he has to know how posting something like that is going to look. Yes, I do think he is dumb for posting this.
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If he knew how it was going to look he wouldn’t have posted it. He deleted it immediately which also proves this. It’s a totally innocent mistake, this is such a fuss over nothing.
 
The Cavani one was a shocking decision by the FA but I can’t get too interested in defending a player who posts a picture of a black teammate with gorilla images. He obviously meant no offence but just take the hit on this one (probably a three match ban) and move on.
 
Doracle said:
The Cavani one was a shocking decision by the FA but I can’t get too interested in defending a player who posts a picture of a black teammate with gorilla images. He obviously meant no offence but just take the hit on this one (probably a three match ban) and move on.
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He posted a photo of 4 teammates, one of which was black. If you think that's racist, then I suspect that's your own subconscious speaking.
 
El Zoido said:
But then again, he is only 19. Most people are dumb at that age.
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Society has traditionally allowed young men in their teens to get away with many stupid things, it was usually dismissed as being... 'a jack the lad' escapade , or "he will grow out of it", or "he will settle down when he has some responsibility" etc.
These days with social media etc. this sort of thing has repercussions now and will follow him for the rest of his life! Imagine if thirty years or so in the future, he's in line for a top job and this comes up... ?
 
CloneMC16 said:
Garnacho grew up in Spain. Spanish people know comparing black people to gorillas is something racists have done for a long time. Their fans do it enough to black players in La Liga. It has nothing to do with UK culture being sensitive to this. Everybody around the entire world knows the connotations here.

I don't think Garnacho meant it in a racist way, but he has to know how posting something like that is going to look. Yes, I do think he is dumb for posting this.
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Yeah I'm obviously well aware of monkey chants at matches and other lowlife acts.
Who knows, maybe he is a casual racist without realising it, even if he likes Onana. Spain does have a terrible record for racism and I've seen racist charicatures at Las Fallas which no-one seemed to bat an eyelid at.

Personally I've more thought of and heard gorilla being used for someone big and hairy, rather than black. Saying that, it's not an emoji or term I'd ever use when addressing a black person because you can see the potential for offence.
Hopefully he'll learn from it, as will others, and it will all be a storm in a teacup in the great scheme of things.
 
SilentWitness said:
You can argue it is common sense not to post what Garnacho did.
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Not really. You need to consider that Garnacho is not native to the UK. The imagery of a gorilla is hardly commonplace in relation to racism and he's clearly not been exposed to it. To an outsider, its a completely benign symbol.

We all understand it, but if you've grown up in Spain or Argentina, you may associate a gorilla with something else entirely, like strength or power.

Racism exists all over the world but it isn't necessarily conveyed in the same way. And, given the context of the post, his innocence is clear. There was no racism intended and anyone feigning offence needs to grow up.
 
Since when has gorilla been a racist gesture in any wester country? I grew up in Canada, lived in both UK and Australia for long periods of time....Monkey or Chimp is commonly used as a derogatory racist animal reference. People are becoming way too sensitive and want to censor everything. Its ridiculous.

Im also a visible minority. Have asian heritage. Latinos/Hispanics/South Americans get away with slanting their eyes in pics and say this is an endearing thing to do. Now that is more directly racest then comparing someone to something mighty and strong like a gorilla/beast of a creature.

I call any athlete who is dominant or has a good game a beast regardless of their race. A gorilla emoji is a reference to beast u sensitive people!

Stop with this cancel culture BS. This is way too extreme.

Ironically Garnacho should have just left it on his social media but his crazy United PR team probably told him to take it down not because he felt guilty about it.
 
AnotherLondonManc said:
Not really. You need to consider that Garnacho is not native to the UK. The imagery of a gorilla is hardly commonplace in relation to racism and he's clearly not been exposed to it. To an outsider, its a completely benign symbol.

We all understand it, but if you've grown up in Spain or Argentina, you may associate a gorilla with something else entirely, like strength or power.

Racism exists all over the world but it isn't necessarily conveyed in the same way. And, given the context of the post, his innocence is clear. There was no racism intended and anyone feigning offence needs to grow up.
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Don't really agree. Despite the spanish language having words and phrases that could be considered racist overseas yet not in their own language, it's worldwide common knowledge that reference to any ape in regards to black people is just a no go. Someone posted a few pages back where Spanish and Argentinian fans had sent gorilla emojis to players to racially abuse them. They're aware and exposed to this connotation.

In the UK people also associate gorillas with strength and power. It's only due to the history and connotations that this can be perceived as a problem and it's better to avoid it.

That's why I also don't think there should be any ban and rather just education on how these things can be percieved.
 
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