I mean Europe already has by far the most places. But that’s clearly not enough for some people…….
Internationals November (World Cup Qualifiers)
- Thread starter Samid
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I mean Europe already has by far the most places. But that’s clearly not enough for some people…….
Tbf Portugal and Italy should both be topping their respective groups if they have what is perceived as a divine right to be at the tournament.
They both know the rules going into qualification. I feel you’re taking away a massive sense of pride that smaller ‘shit’ sides have making it and getting to play the big boys. I certainly feel proud Scotland have managed to make a make a major tournament again in my lifetime and given themselves a shot at this one.
You always have to play what’s in front of you. Can’t just rely on being “a big football nation” all the time. Just makes it pointless for the rest of us.
I don't know, would a top footballing nation be pipped to the WC by Switzerland or Serbia (no disrespect to those two nations)?
UEFA gets 13/32 places in the current world cup format. That is 40% of slots, for 1 continent. If you have a fix for more European football than that, then wait for the Euros? Or follow CAF's lead and have the Euros every 2 years?
There's no way Europe should have any more than 13 places for a 32 team world cup - that's almost half the teams from one continent as it is.
No other continent has more than 5, and one (Oceania) isn't even guaranteed one spot for the World Cup.
The whole point of qualifiers is that it's a battle to make it there and some teams might miss it. With 13 spots hardly any of the 'strong' European teams should miss out, but it keeps the possibility open and adds a touch of jeopardy to the year or two of qualifiers. Extending it to 16 or more from Europe, and therefore denying even more non-European nations the chance to qualify, just to guarantee no big European nations ever fail to qualify really shouldn't happen.
Switzerland is 11th in the elo rating and Serbia 18th. Europe should have couple places more. But it is mainly bad luck that one of Italy or Portugal won't make it. They had some of the hardest 2nd teams in their group, both of them actually outplayed their opponents and now have to play against each other. Obviously there should have been seedings in the draw, and that is on UEFA.
And South America should have 2 more also.
Italy would have topped their group but for stoppage-time penalty miss against Switzerland. Portugal trying to play for a draw against Serbia backfired.
I'd fancy Italy to reach the world cup and Portugal to miss out, that will be especially disappointing for Ronaldo in what is likely his last opportunity to play in the World Cup.
I'd fancy Italy to reach the world cup and Portugal to miss out, that will be especially disappointing for Ronaldo in what is likely his last opportunity to play in the World Cup.
Less than 50% of the European teams made the second round in 2010 and 2014 (6/13 each time). That's pretty bad. 2018 was much better but the tournament was on European soil. That seems to make a lot of difference.
Having said that, in the later stages the UEFA teams don't disappoint with 4 European WC winners in a row. I think 13 on 32 is just about right.
Having said that, in the later stages the UEFA teams don't disappoint with 4 European WC winners in a row. I think 13 on 32 is just about right.
Some sh*tty ad … some sh*tty tune … some sh*tty interview … big announcement : “Aaaaand… welcome to WC2026, the first tournament with 48 teams in, because we care about diversity and participation. Enjoy!” … some sh*tty interview … some sh*tty tune … some sh*tty ad. Problem solved.
So Europe is actually over 50% in last 3 WCs (55%). CAF 3/16, AFC 3/13. And as said Conmebol deserves extra spots even more than Europe.
What do you guys think about inter continental qualifying perhaps based on an improved seeding system?
Could be interesting and actually really improve Asia and Africa in terms of football quality where instead of waiting 4 years to maybe have a life and death scenario to play against better quality teams they could do it in a rather more conducive environment
For example Italy to be seeded with Egypt and algeria
Germany with iran or qatar
Etc etc
Could be interesting and actually really improve Asia and Africa in terms of football quality where instead of waiting 4 years to maybe have a life and death scenario to play against better quality teams they could do it in a rather more conducive environment
For example Italy to be seeded with Egypt and algeria
Germany with iran or qatar
Etc etc
Portugal didn't outplay their opponents, they did draw against Ireland away, and were about to lose at home if it wasn't for Cristiano scoring 2 goals in the last 5 minutes, plus they got outplayed by Serbia at home in the last game.
Italy situation it's a combination of bad luck (Jorginho missing last minute penalty against Switzerland to win the game and secure the first place), and the lack of top strikers to secure goals (Belotti and Immobile missing sitters against Bulgaria at home and Switzerland away, cause they are far from being top strikers).
Italy did outplay their opponents, Portugal didn't.
But Football was never about justice or not, it's about scoring goals wether you play better than your opponent or have better players.
Anyways, Italy is favorite to qualify, the only chance Portugal have it's if Belotti and Immobile miss a lot (which wouldn't be surprising at all) and Portugal score in one of the few chances they get (which wouldn't be surprising considering how lucky is Fernando Santos).
So first of all, the Elo rating system is highly flawed, and can't be taken as a definitive method of ranking one team above another in all situations. Especially given that intercontinental contests are very infrequent.
Second, assuming it was this perfect ranking system, that's not the point of the World Cup. It's not a tournament of the objectively best 32 teams in world football. Let's say the best 32 nations in the world were all European. Should Europe be allocated all the slots for the WC? Of course not, that's what the Euros are for.
Why would that magically improve the quality of those teams? Playing stronger competition in a vacuum doesn't make you better (word to San Marino). Better players, better youth football, better coaching, better FAs... That is what will bridge the gap eventually.
Plus, do you think club football fans would be for the idea of having the likes of England and Germany fly across the world to South Africa or Australia for qualifiers? The likes of Klopp and co hate non-European international football as is
Finally, you'd have to come up with a fair seeding system. The ELO ranking system is too flawed.
I'm not one of those "if it's not broke don't fix it" guys. I just don't see your idea as improving anything.
I think Italy are going to miss out again. Not too bothered really and I agree that if they're good enough they should have topped their group.
Or if he misses this one he won't retire until the next. I'm not sure what type of form he'll be in but age has definitely not been a limiting factor for him.
Switzerland is definitely a very good team, plus they are very well coached.
From the last 10 international tournaments (Euro and WC), they have qualified to 9, only missed one in 2012... that's a helluva of a record for a non-big team.
It's perfectly possible for Switzerland to be considered top 15 in the world, yeah i know they aren't winning a tournament anytime soon cause they lack the quality to, but neither will Costa Rica,Panama,Egypt,USA,Japan,Ivory Coast,etc... and Switzerland is definitely better than those teams.
"We're staying at home!" scream that down the cameras Bonucci bitch.
My post wasnt meant to denigrate the Swiss (apologies if it came across that way)... I actually enjoy watching them play. They've been a consistent dark horse in recent years.
Italy will get through I reckon.
As for Ronaldo - I think he'll stick around and play in the 2026 WC.
There should have been seed/rankings for the draw. Ridiculous one of those nations will miss the World Cup.
As for Ronaldo - I think he'll stick around and play in the 2026 WC.
There should have been seed/rankings for the draw. Ridiculous one of those nations will miss the World Cup.
Portugal also finished 3rd in 2014 behind USA
.The arrogance of some people knows no bounds, I would love it if Turkey's the one that go throughOnly two starters in Serbia match started in that drawn match against Ireland in Dublin so in the terms of team selection they took the Serbia game a lot more serious. Two late goals in the home match against Ireland though they did outplay them with near 30 shots on goal and over 70% possession.
I watched Portugal 1 Serbia 2 game live , the longer the game went on the more Portugal was happy to play out a 1-1 draw. I also watched Serbia at home to Portugal and from what I recall it was a even contest with a draw a fair result.
I think Portugal will lose to Italy because even when they try to defend/close up shop they aren't very good at it.
While I do concede that my ide is bonkers I do feel it might work so to address several of your pointsWhy would that magically improve the quality of those teams? Playing stronger competition in a vacuum doesn't make you better (word to San Marino). Better players, better youth football, better coaching, better FAs... That is what will bridge the gap eventually.
Plus, do you think club football fans would be for the idea of having the likes of England and Germany fly across the world to South Africa or Australia for qualifiers? The likes of Klopp and co hate non-European international football as is
Finally, you'd have to come up with a fair seeding system. The ELO ranking system is too flawed.
I'm not one of those "if it's not broke don't fix it" guys. I just don't see your idea as improving anything.
1 : I don't think san Marino is the best example out there its basically an island of several thousand people while the countries i did mention outnumber many if not all ( in case of Egypt ) European countries and generally having a very strong footballing culture and certainly they do have the talent pool to draw from for example Egypt again has salah one of the best in the world. These countries for whatever reason whether it be bad management or just being economically weak have been rather backward in footballing terms compared to Europe and by the virtue of association could perhaps learn a thing or two and improve (see how their players who gone abroad improved)
(Also another apt example would perhaps be how European cups helped to modernize the English game and club structure in the 90s after the fall-out of well that tragedy)
2 : that's the most demanding part traveling across large distances which will cause fatigue but there is a caveat as many of those none European countries make those travels anyway due to the size of their continent and the technology has improved so that long distance travel isn't as demanding say 60 years ago so still possible (also consider that many of those none European players playing in Europe already make those distances)
3 : elo can and should be fixed there are already better formulas floating on the internet that are better then that mess and the fact that fifa is insisting to keep using it is a travesty
In the end yes none of the European countries will like it and almost certainly all club football fans will hate it and the likes of our dear Jurgen might as well have a heart attack though i wager most non European countries will really like the idea by the virtue of being able to see their favorite super stars playing in their stadium
Dumb idea ? Yes but so is having world cup every other year so who knows
This is absolute atrocity. What is a Word Cup without big teams and super stars. The play offs should have held according to seeding. As a neutral who wants to see the likes of Russia, Poland, Ukraine or Scotland.
Qualifying groups are already seeded. How many layers of protection do the "big teams and super stars" need to not feck it up?
It's the world cup, not a super League thank god.
I agree. Denigrating countries that have made it through the qualifiers is silly. Whoever fails to make it from Portugal and Italy deserves doesn't deserve to. And will have only itself to blame.
The world cup is just a glorified Euros anyways. Everybody knows that!
Portugal finished second in a group behind Serbia, if they wanted to make sure they went through they shouldn’t have lost to Serbia. What you’re suggesting is basically guaranteed places in the tournament, feck that. I would also like to see all those teams over Portugal if they qualified legitimately.
Qatar's already a desert so we'll just peace out
Italy following up their 2006 World Cup win, with a disastrous group stage exit in 2010 (the easiest group I can think of that a 'major' footballing nation has been eliminated from), another group stage exit in 2014, a failed qualifying campaign for 2018 and then potentially a second successive failed qualifying campaign for 2022, would be quite something.
Then again I'd happily take a scenario in which England won the Euros finally celebrating some silverware, and then failed to qualify for the subsequent World Cup. Given me that over back to back semi-final / final defeats. I know several Chilean fans who while incredibly disappointed by their failure to qualify for 2018 with their golden generation, understandably wouldn't trade in either of their Copa America wins in 2015 or 2016 for a place in Russia.
Then again I'd happily take a scenario in which England won the Euros finally celebrating some silverware, and then failed to qualify for the subsequent World Cup. Given me that over back to back semi-final / final defeats. I know several Chilean fans who while incredibly disappointed by their failure to qualify for 2018 with their golden generation, understandably wouldn't trade in either of their Copa America wins in 2015 or 2016 for a place in Russia.
In terms of international football, the widening gulf between Europe and the rest of the world is a big shame.
The clear decline of South American football is also a pity but is not that surprising. It was always going to impossible to keep pace with Europe / UEFA in the long run, which of course has such a huge advantage when it comes to money, organisation, infrastructure, logistics etc.
The clear decline of South American football is also a pity but is not that surprising. It was always going to impossible to keep pace with Europe / UEFA in the long run, which of course has such a huge advantage when it comes to money, organisation, infrastructure, logistics etc.
The level of English schadenfreude if Italy don’t make it will be epic.
Some sh*tty ad … some sh*tty tune … some sh*tty interview … big announcement : “Aaaaand… welcome to WC2026, the first tournament with 48 teams in, because we care about diversity and participation. Enjoy!” … some sh*tty interview … some sh*tty tune … some sh*tty ad. Problem solved.
This was probably funnier in your head.
I don't see why Italy is unlucky, the most likely scenario will have them play Turkey.
BTW I was able to get access to Santos' tactics for the playoffs
In Italy there is a big fear
Why? Unless England win it, it can't be argued that they are better off. I'm willing to bet if given the option between winning the euros and not qualifying for the world cup or qualifying/getting to latter rounds of both, but not winning either, most will choose the former.
I don't disagree with you, but you are basically counting on football fans to be fully rational and not at all petty.
Serbia have quite a talented team and played good football in these qualifiers. Stojkovic seems to have given them a confidence and consistency they've often lacked in the recent past. They genuinely played equal, or at times better football in the qualifiers than portugal from what i saw, and then outplayed them in the deciding game. What more can you ask for from underdog teams?