Iniesta - Is there another? | Announces retirement

His assist stats have improved significantly this season. He managed 17 in his previous three seasons in La Liga , the same amount that Ozil got last season alone.

There is little contest for the player of the two that you would rather in your team.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
His assist stats have improved significantly this season. He managed 17 in his previous three seasons in La Liga , the same amount that Ozil got last season alone.

There is little contest for the player of the two that you would rather in your team.
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Yeah his assists have improved a lot to be fair.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
His assist stats have improved significantly this season. He managed 17 in his previous three seasons in La Liga , the same amount that Ozil got last season alone.

There is little contest for the player of the two that you would rather in your team.
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Overall, Mesut had 20 assists in 2012 - 42 out of their midfield, in total. But in contrast, Leo had 23 assists while the midfield had 42 as well - Iniesta with 10. Barcelona just had more options to produce assists from.

This season, despite being on 13 overall, Iniesta has lots of help from the midfield in terms of assists, as well - 18 with Leo also chipping in 10

His numbers and influence are improved this season mostly down to where he is positioned on the pitch, closer to goal
 
I think there's more to players than just ability. Basically all of the all time greats were the most influential players at their club. You simply can't say the same for Iniesta right now. On ability alone, I think he's up there, without a doubt. Not sure that's enough, at least not for me. Playmaking is more than just assisting in stlye, imo. We don't know what kind of influence Zidane would have had, had he played all his career with maybe the best of all time. That's pure speculation. I rate Xavi's influence in 2008/09-2010/11 way higher than Iniesta's now, for example.

By the way, Zidane faced for sure tougher defensive formations than Iniesta in the league, especially in Italy. Juve scored on average 53.4 goals a season during the 5 years Zidane played in Italy. 14 assists when your team scored about 50 goals sounds pretty great to me, 12 assists when you're playing with the greatest goalscorer of all time, breaking every record imaginable and your team already scoring 72 goals in 22 games isn't as impressive after all, don't you think.

I asked for the last years, not only half a season.
Özil:
2010/11 19 assists in 36 games
2011/12 20 assists in 35 games
2012/13 8 assists in 21 games

Iniesta:
2010/11 4 assists in 34 games
2011/12 11 assists in 28 games
2012/13 12 assists in 16 games

stats from transfermarkt.

Now, I think saying he stands alone is a bit over the top. He had a better season so far than Özil, without a doubt. Probably the way the team is set up now, increases his influence in the final third. I don't think he's a totally different player now than in 2010/11. Oh and I'm pretty sure the german league is missing in your assist table. Müller has 10 assists in 19 games, for example, some have 9 assists with less games than the players in your list.
 
The standing alone wasn't merely in reference to his assists this season but his contributions to winning games and his role as a playmaker which isn't merely about goals - hence the recognition he received last season, individually

Mesut, by comparison, has won less and is the primary assist source in his midfield - that isn't the case for Iniesta...And head to head, the case is easy to be made as to who stands alone


Balu said:
By the way, Zidane faced for sure tougher defensive formations than Iniesta in the league, especially in Italy. Juve scored on average 53.4 goals a season during the 5 years Zidane played in Italy. 14 assists when your team scored about 50 goals sounds pretty great to me, 12 assists when you're playing with the greatest goalscorer of all time, breaking every record imaginable and your team already scoring 72 goals in 22 games isn't as impressive after all, don't you think.
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Except no one else was there to provide assists in that Juve team other than Zidane - he was the focal point of their offense, Iniesta has 13 assists in half a season but the team has also produced another 54 assists - most of which is from players in the attacking third. I agree Zidane's influence was impressive and also agree that it's difficult to distinguish which is perhaps a more incredible feat - sort of potato/potatoe kind of thinking perhaps

I'd also add that that was Zizou's best season and he never really came close to eclipsing that season, just a reference when talking about the influence of the great midfielders. And I don't agree that he operated in less space than Iniesta, Serie A simply plays a different game and is not nearly as offensive minded - especially back in those days, 53 total goals tells you quite a bit. All of the top leagues in Europe have teams with more than that total at the midway point.

Balu said:
Oh and I'm pretty sure the german league is missing in your assist table. Müller has 10 assists in 19 games, for example, some have 9 assists with less games than the players in your list.
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Correct, missed that

Ribéry with 10 in 22 matches, Müller with 9 in 24, Reus with 8
 
FCBarca said:
Also important to point out that Iniesta is not merely dishing out assists in acres of space, he unlike most playmakers (Even Zizou) is facing two lines of 4 in nearly every match. He operates in less space than perhaps any comparable midfielder
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FCBarca said:
Except no one else was there to provide assists in that Juve team other than Zidane - he was the focal point of their offense, Iniesta has 13 assists in half a season but the team has also produced another 54 assists - most of which is from players in the attacking third. I agree Zidane's influence was impressive and also agree that it's difficult to distinguish which is perhaps a more incredible feat - sort of potato/potatoe kind of thinking perhaps.

I'd also add that that was Zizou's best season and he never really came close to eclipsing that season, just a reference when talking about the influence of the great midfielders. And I don't agree that he operated in less space than Iniesta, Serie A simply plays a different game and is not nearly as offensive minded - especially back in those days, 53 total goals tells you quite a bit. All of the top leagues in Europe have teams with more than that total at the midway point.
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I still don't get these points. Do you really think it's as difficult to create and assist, when everyone upfront is doing it in your team and the focal point of your team's attack is someone else, compared to being the sole focal point in a league with even tougher defenses to score against? And do you really think, Zidane at Juve had more space to work in compared to Iniesta now? That doesn't make sense. You think, the league was less offensive minded but also allowed more space to the most important attacker of the opponent's team? That's not a potato/potatoe kind of thinking, imo. I think that's plain wrong. But let's agree to disagree. Btw. for now it's by far Iniesta's best season as well, it's not like he's assisting these numbers for years.

FCBarca said:
Correct, missed that

Ribéry with 10 in 22 matches, Müller with 9 in 24, Reus with 8
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Where do you get those stats?
Müller has 10 assists and 11 goals in 19 league games or 15 assists and 14 goals in 27 games overall for Bayern this season.
 
Balu said:
I still don't get these points. Do you really think it's as difficult to create and assist, when everyone upfront is doing it in your team and the focal point of your team's attack is someone else, compared to being the sole focal point in a league with even tougher defenses to score against? And do you really think, Zidane at Juve had more space to work in compared to Iniesta now? That doesn't make sense. You think, the league was less offensive minded but also allowed more space to the most important attacker of the opponent's team? That's not a potato/potatoe kind of thinking, imo. I think that's plain wrong. But let's agree to disagree. Btw. for now it's by far Iniesta's best season as well, it's not like he's assisting these numbers for years.



Where do you get those stats?
Müller has 10 assists and 11 goals in 19 league games or 15 assists and 14 goals in 27 games overall for Bayern this season.
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The German system of counting assists includes rebounds and winning penalties, a practice that isn't employed by any other league, so the corresponding numbers for Müller are indeed 8 league assists (don't know overall).

The merits of both systems are debatable, but personally I also prefer the 'standard' one and not the expansive definition (which was introduced at the 1986 World Cup, I believe and could even sometimes include pre-assists like in hockey).
 
Iniesta may be playing more on the side of the attacking trio but he is still very much a playmaker in his game.Zidane used to start on the left for Real Madrid but he played entirely differently to a winger, he was a playmaker who loved to roam on the left side and combine with R.Carlos (just like Iniesta loves to do so with Alba)
 
FCBarca said:
You're talking about a midfielder or a forward?...A playmaker isn't judged by their goals but the ones they create and in that regard, he stands alone

IFFHS World's Best Playmaker - 2012
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award - 2012
UEFA Euro Best Player of Tournament - 2012
UEFA Champions League Best Player - 2011/2012

Not bad for someone who scored only 8 goals in 2012
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That award for him is a joke. Everyone knows that.
 
FCBarca said:
Also important to point out that Iniesta is not merely dishing out assists in acres of space, he unlike most playmakers (Even Zizou) is facing two lines of 4 in nearly every match. He operates in less space than perhaps any comparable midfielder.
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As you say it's difficult to compare between generations, but I'm not sure about that argument. It's the same principle that says it's easier for a midtable striker to score goals than it is for Van Persie because the Dutchman faces packed defences and midfields.

An average-position heatmap of Zidane's time with Juventus would probably have him somewhere around the centre circle, given the increased competition and tighter midfield battle. Iniesta by contrast would likely be 25 yards further up the park. Ultimately there's a minefield of difficulties when comparing across generations through the currency of statistics, much like the Messi/Maradona debates.
 
Gio said:
As you say it's difficult to compare between generations, but I'm not sure about that argument. It's the same principle that says it's easier for a midtable striker to score goals than it is for Van Persie because the Dutchman faces packed defences and midfields.

An average-position heatmap of Zidane's time with Juventus would probably have him somewhere around the centre circle, given the increased competition and tighter midfield battle. Iniesta by contrast would likely be 25 yards further up the park. Ultimately there's a minefield of difficulties when comparing across generations through the currency of statistics, much like the Messi/Maradona debates.
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It's true, there are many variables and it is hard to compare. However, Juve under Ancelotti played a 3-4-1-2 with Pippo & Del Pierro operating as scoring outlets for Zidane who was in front of two holding midfielders. They were a counter attacking side that didn't face 2 blocks of 4 and this was for a team that finished 2nd in Serie A that season and were eliminated in the first round of CL. He played great but he was also the only creative option in that midfield, even if he was further from goal - there was still far more space to operate under. For me, operating in tight spaces with a bevy of defenders is more difficult to score from than further up the pitch and more space
 
:eek: Those 2 passes/assists for th first 2 goals.

Absolutely brilliant player.
 
Amazing weight, timing and direction for those 2 through balls for the first 2 goals. His general play is also obscene - I believe Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi are better players by a distance, but as a result of the big moments they so regularly produce over a season, week in week out. With Iniesta, every time he receives the ball, he impresses you in one way or another, something Ronaldo and Messi do not do, even if he isn't as much of a match-winner. This is the similarity he shares with Zidane, for me. Poise, elegance, he has it all - more so than any player currently playing.
 
Better than Zidane so says the pundits on Revista
 
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Balu said:
I think there's more to players than just ability. Basically all of the all time greats were the most influential players at their club. You simply can't say the same for Iniesta right now. On ability alone, I think he's up there, without a doubt. Not sure that's enough, at least not for me. Playmaking is more than just assisting in stlye, imo. We don't know what kind of influence Zidane would have had, had he played all his career with maybe the best of all time. That's pure speculation. I rate Xavi's influence in 2008/09-2010/11 way higher than Iniesta's now, for example.
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Apologies for quoting discussion from a week back. I agree influence is a hugely important thing but unless I've misunderstood what you meant, 'most influential', at the club surely has little to do with individual quality & everything to do with wider circumstances? Iniesta's ability means he can play make from deep sitting in front of the defence, but it's the context at Barca that means his role isn't as influential as Xavi in terms of dictating play, or as central to Barca's play in the final third as one of the greatest of all-time.

But Iniesta is obviously hugely influential for Barca & Spain. When teams get so many bodies behind the ball it seems to be his responsibility more than anyone's to find a way through. His success at that is what makes him so great.

If you believe in 'most influential' in the team as a criterion, do you think it favours Zidane in this discussion, anyway? After his first season at Juve both Bokšić & Jugović left & it became a very functional side built around him, like FCBarca said. At Madrid, I think Ronaldo was the more important figure. It's kind of been discussed above, but would you not say that Iniesta is the key player for Spain, where Xavi's duties are shared more with Alonso? Iniesta has been central to almost every significant moment of Spain's recent success. I don't think that could be dismissively described as assisting in style, that's being the difference maker at the highest level on a consistent basis.
 
I can't say if the current Iniesta is better than Zidane but I strongly believe that by the end of his career there will be no doubt (for me) about it.
 
You think Iniesta will get much better? I'm not sure about that. He's no better now than 2 years ago.
 
I think Iniesta is better now to be honest and that the difference between him and Ronaldo is absolutely marginal. He's been in top class form recently, and it's not inconceivable that he'll gradually assume more and more responsibility whilst increasing his productivity and further dominating games in the coming seasons.
 
Iniesta was also top class two years ago. He was also more productive than now. Well, it's similar. Assists now instead of goals but that's because Messi is the only one scoring them.

He might well get better. I'm not saying he won't. I'm just saying that if he doesn't and just, "just", keeps on playing like he does now it's still world class and arguably the 2nd best player in the world. I don't see anyone taking that 3rd place spot from him at least.

That being said, it was weird seeing him shoot in the final seconds against Granada. Messi was wide open for a tap in and a hat trick but he took the shot instead. Unlike him.
 
Jiggs'Hamstring said:
I was at the game on Sunday. I was just in awe for 90 minutes, it was definitely the most remarkable individual performance I've seen in the flesh. Just amazing.

It was a good day.
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So was I. The guy who was marking him was never more than a few yards away from him, yet never got a sniff all game. In the second half, when he ran down the left wing, two Getafe players had him pinned against the touchline and he made them look like amateurs. One did a lunging slide tackle and he just switched the ball from his right to his left foot and skipped past him, the second guy was blown away by Iniesta's pace. He is deceptively quick :lol:

The best piece of skill, though, was when the keeper overhit his goal kick and it was flying over Iniesta's head. The wee man just stood there, watched it go over his head, then stuck his leg out behind himself and brought the ball down with his heel like it was the most natural thing in the world :drool:

fecking genius.
 
While Messi and Ronaldo's numbers speak for themselves, I hope Iniesta wins a Ballon D'or someday as a triumph of beauty and art over hard numbers because you can't quantify what he does but damn is it beautiful to watch.
 
thats the only gripe I have with Iniesta. For years he's gotten all this praise and people proclaiming him MOTM for a few great touches but ultimately no end product.

Thats the main change this year, less arsing around and more killer passes.
 
Snake Plissken said:
thats the only gripe I have with Iniesta. For years he's gotten all this praise and people proclaiming him MOTM for a few great touches but ultimately no end product.

Thats the main change this year, less arsing around and more killer passes.
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Yes. Totally agree. It was a bandwagon.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
Bah, rubbish. Fwank circa 2005 would eat him for breakfast.
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Quite literally.

Anyway for all the Messi is getting for yesterday, I thought he and Busquets were also brilliant.
 
It's a pity he didn't maintain his mid-season form otherwise he'd have been jostling for the Ballon D'Or this year.
 
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