Indian Politics

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
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The other thread has run its course and no point keeping a thread title containing words 'elections 2014' running forever.

So, the latest controversy or discussion point. Removal of words 'secular' and 'socialist' from the constitution preamble by Government in an ad for republic day. Not sure whether it was done on purpose or not. I haven't seen the ad but read that the ad used a photo of the original constitution whereas the words secular and socialist were added during 42nd amendment during emergency. Now Shiv Sena is calling for removal of those words from preamble. Lets ignore SS but think and discuss a bit.

According to me, there is no harm with word secular. It has been widely misused, since forever, by political parties in India but given India is perhaps the only Country with so much religious diversity and more so where every religion has full freedom, it is right thing to have it there. It is time and opportunity though to remove 'socialist' from the preamble.

The word socialist was obviously added with political motivation but even if we keep that aside for a moment, a country can't be socialist or communist or capitalist as per constitution preamble and that to me is key. Those are ideologies and Country can have different dominant ideologies in different eras. You can't put an ideology as part of constitution.

We haven't exactly been a socialist country for long time now and long it may continue but the point is, whether a country should put such ideological words in its constitution peramble. The word 'socialist' really looks out of place there:

WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:

JUSTICE, social, economic and political;

LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;

EQUALITY of status and of opportunity;

and to promote among them all

FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation;

IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.
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Thoughts?
 
The Shiv Sena want the word secular to be removed which is a joke. The word secular means that the State is not attached to any religion whereas the likes of RSS, Sena etc clearly believe this to be a Hindu State. So I'm against removing that word of course.

Socialist is a strange one. Why is it even there?
 
Delhi Election results? Incredible. I hope to God that AAP and Kejriwal do not feck up this golden chance.

That said, Kejriwal needs time and support to prove himself (like Modi)
 
Leading in 58 seats? That's just too good. Who would have thought that after last years Lok Sabha elections BJP will come down to this. With all the Modi rallies and his full page front ads, this must be a shock to them. Kiran Bedi's appointment didn't help either.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Delhi Election results? Incredible. I hope to God that AAP and Kejriwal do not feck up this golden chance.

That said, Kejriwal needs time and support to prove himself (like Modi)
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The collaboration with central government becomes more important with Delhi being UT. As long as Kejriwal doesn't himself go on strike every now & then and do the drama of sleeping on streets etc, he has good administrative background to do good work.
 
I think and really really hope he has learnt from his mistake last year. At least that's what he showed in the interviews this time around. Plus, there were a lot of jacks who were jumping around last year, there have been none this time around - which helps AAP. They have done quite a lot of groundwork before these elections and that shows in the results, and hopefully that continues.
 
I didn't pay detailed attention to these elections and prior activities but do Delhites here feel Kiran Bedi was big mistake from BJP? I know there are some funny videos of her going around, but even that aside, bringing a new name in party and directly making her CM candidate, did it had bad effect on local leaders and cadre? Did it reflect on the efforts party workers put in?
 
Yer man Modi was involved big time too. There was a lot of praise for Amit Shah in 'delivering states' to BJP last election. His strategy for Delhi was again Modi as the leader of BJP and Bedi as his right hand. I think a lot of people underestimated just how big the anti incumbency factor was, and in this election, Modi/BJP being the incumbent party as well.

One awesome outcome of this election is Congress drawing a blank. Lol.
 
The Man Himself said:
I didn't pay detailed attention to these elections and prior activities but do Delhites here feel Kiran Bedi was big mistake from BJP? I know there are some funny videos of her going around, but even that aside, bringing a new name in party and directly making her CM candidate, did it had bad effect on local leaders and cadre? Did it reflect on the efforts party workers put in?
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BJP nominated her as the CM candidate only 20 days before the election. The party workers even protested due to this in front of the BJP office if I am not wrong. There was not enough time for her to do anything. The local leaders and the more experienced guys felt neglected IMO and to add to that she was just a rookie as far as political career is concerned.
 
Vote share wise there hasn't been much change for BJP. They are still getting about 33% of the vote share, which, I think, is on par with last assembly election and the general election. It seems that the inept performance from Congress is what has led to this land slide of a victory. Its more that the people who voted for Congress last time round realised that there was no chance of Congress coming to power and decided that its better to vote for AAP then to have a hung assembly like last time.
 
Modi and Amit Shah won the state elections last year largely due to Congress' anti incumbency and no other alternative for the people to vote for. But in Delhi people had AAP even after last year's resignation of Kejriwal.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Yer man Modi was involved big time too. There was a lot of praise for Amit Shah in 'delivering states' to BJP last election. His strategy for Delhi was again Modi as the leader of BJP and Bedi as his right hand. I think a lot of people underestimated just how big the anti incumbency factor was, and in this election, Modi/BJP being the incumbent party as well.

One awesome outcome of this election is Congress drawing a blank. Lol.
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How anti-incumbency affected BJP? BJP has not been in power in Delhi since 1998!
btw, Amit Shah is a v. good tactician. Of course it won't mean he will take BJP to win every time.

RedMachine03 said:
BJP nominated her as the CM candidate only 20 days before the election. The party workers even protested due to this in front of the BJP office if I am not wrong. There was not enough time for her to do anything. The local leaders and the more experienced guys felt neglected IMO and to add to that she was just a rookie as far as political career is concerned.
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Ya that was really weird move. Modi-Shah are way smarter than that to not understand that risk. I can't help but feel there is bigger politics behind it. BJP-AAP joining hands behind the scenes to finish Congress? Whatever it is, as long as it helps Delhi state, it should be fine.
 
RedMachine03 said:
Modi and Amit Shah won the state elections last year largely due to Congress' anti incumbency and no other alternative for the people to vote for. But in Delhi people had AAP even after last year's resignation of Kejriwal.
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Yeah, In a way, the anti incumbency votes were misconstrued as a mark of approval for Modi. It was a combination of people wanting a change from Congress and Modi's track record of efficient governance in Gujarat.
 
The Man Himself said:
How anti-incumbency affected BJP? BJP has not been in power in Delhi since 1998!
btw, Amit Shah is a v. good tactician. Of course it won't mean he will take BJP to win every time.



Ya that was really weird move. Modi-Shah are way smarter than that to not understand that risk. I can't help but feel there is bigger politics behind it. BJP-AAP joining hands behind the scenes to finish Congress? Whatever it is, as long as it helps Delhi state, it should be fine.
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Well if you look at it closely, BJP more or less put Modi on election again in Delhi, hoping to ride the Modi wave.

And for the rest of your post, lol TMH, that's some Antohan level WW shit right there
 
This Bjp spokesman is talking some utter shit. Says that this election was a leader centric election and Kejriwal won it, not AAP. Yet when asked who lost, it's BJP that lost, not Modi/Bedi :lol:
 
fishfingers15 said:
Well if you look at it closely, BJP more or less put Modi on election again in Delhi, hoping to ride the Modi wave.

And for the rest of your post, lol TMH, that's some Antohan level WW shit right there
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BJP will of course put Modi everywhere. He is their best bet.

What shit? If you are talking about 'bigger politics' point, things are never as they look in politics, my friend. There is chance that some party is just dumb or totally miscalculates the equation, but these parties and politicians are around for too long to not know better. I don't believe that neither of BJP or Congress had some behind the scene agreement with Kejri. We will find out eventually.
 
Poor Sonia and Rahul's job nowadays is only limited to congratulating opposition party after election results. They should go back to Italy and live comfortable life now imo :p
 
harshad said:
Vote share wise there hasn't been much change for BJP. They are still getting about 33% of the vote share, which, I think, is on par with last assembly election and the general election. It seems that the inept performance from Congress is what has led to this land slide of a victory. Its more that the people who voted for Congress last time round realised that there was no chance of Congress coming to power and decided that its better to vote for AAP then to have a hung assembly like last time.
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Strange way of justifying it. The actual truth is that this was always going to be a straight two party shootout, which renders vote shares largely irrelevant.
 
On one hand there were huge ads on the front page of every newspaper here saying vote for Modi on the basis of work done in 9 months after the Lok sabha elections. But every BJP spokesperon says that this result is not a referendum of the Modi government.
 
The Man Himself said:
Poor Sonia and Rahul's job nowadays is only limited to congratulating opposition party after election results. They should go back to Italy and live comfortable life now imo :p
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You should have seen NDTV in the morning. There was some guy ripping Congress to shreds. "Your party has a mid 40 year old still trying to organise youth Congress. What do you really expect to achieve?" :lol: :lol:
 
RedMachine03 said:
On one hand there were huge ads on the front page of every newspaper here saying vote for Modi on the basis of work done in 9 months after the Lok sabha elections. But every BJP spokesperon says that this result is not a referendum of the Modi government.
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This was always on the cards. Win because of Modi; lose and it's not a referendum of Modi.

Also, as far as Kiran Bedi goes - very easy scapegoat. Very easy.
 
coolredwine said:
You should have seen NDTV in the morning. There was some guy ripping Congress to shreds. "Your party has a mid 40 year old still trying to organise youth Congress. What do you really expect to achieve?" :lol: :lol:
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Arnab on times now to congress woman: We don't yet have a congress mukt but we now have a congress mukt Delhi. :lol:
 
MDFC Manager said:
Strange way of justifying it. The actual truth is that this was always going to be a straight two party shootout, which renders vote shares largely irrelevant.
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Not justifying. The polling data shows that the people who voted for BJP last time more or less still voted for BJP. The people who voted for Congress last time didn't vote for Congress this time and voted for a viable alternative to both Congress and BJP. Probably the BJP also had realised it hence they got in someone like Kiran Bedi to attract more voters.
 
The only down side to this result is that there wont be any opposition in the assembly. AAP can pass any policy without much debate aside from the news channels ones.
 
The Man Himself said:
BJP will of course put Modi everywhere. He is their best bet.

What shit? If you are talking about 'bigger politics' point, things are never as they look in politics, my friend. There is chance that some party is just dumb or totally miscalculates the equation, but these parties and politicians are around for too long to not know better. I don't believe that neither of BJP or Congress had some behind the scene agreement with Kejri. We will find out eventually.
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Come on man, don't go all crazy conspiracy theorist on me. It's like 'Can a loss be a win' post. AAP won the ballot, let's see what they do with it. People who preach patience with Modi, will face an interesting test now. Do they do the same with AAP too?
 
fishfingers15 said:
Come on man, don't go all crazy conspiracy theorist on me. It's like 'Can a loss be a win' post. AAP won the ballot, let's see what they do with it. People who preach patience with Modi, will face an interesting test now. Do they do the same with AAP too?
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There is nothing 'loss can be a win' in that post. It is not so much of conspiracy theory but what actually happens in politics. If you are going to be naive about it, your choice. I already said that whatever it is, as long as it works for people in Delhi in the end, they won't complaint what happened behind the scenes.
 
The Man Himself said:
There is nothing 'loss can be a win' in that post. It is not so much of conspiracy theory but what actually happens in politics. If you are going to be naive about it, your choice. I already said that whatever it is, as long as it works for people in Delhi in the end, they won't complaint what happened behind the scenes.
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What you are suggesting is, BJP (4 out of 70) or Congress (0 out of 70) made an underhand deal with an upstart party contesting elections for the second time in the nation's capital for some long term goal of taking another party out, at the considerable risk of becoming a national laughing stock? I'm telling you, that's more paranoid than any of the Antohan theories in Werewolf.
 
Kiran Bedi loses too :lol: Hopefully that's the last we see of her on the politics stage.
 
fishfingers15 said:
What you are suggesting is, BJP (4 out of 70) or Congress (0 out of 70) made an underhand deal with an upstart party contesting elections for the second time in the nation's capital for some long term goal of taking another party out, at the considerable risk of becoming a national laughing stock? I'm telling you, that's more paranoid than any of the Antohan theories in Werewolf.
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As if politicians care about things like becoming laughing stock etc. Not just this election, but politicians and parties otherwise also try to get best deals for themselves in any scenario. Why else do you think politicians dont get trialed when not in power too? You don't understand politics at all, do you? :D
 
The Man Himself said:
There is nothing 'loss can be a win' in that post. It is not so much of conspiracy theory but what actually happens in politics. If you are going to be naive about it, your choice. I already said that whatever it is, as long as it works for people in Delhi in the end, they won't complaint what happened behind the scenes.
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Far more likely than your theory is Bedi was brought in because Shah knew they were in trouble and needed someone to take the heat off Modi. When the result is this one sided, it's quite likely BJP could tell things weren't right on the ground.
 
kps88 said:
Far more likely than your theory is Bedi was brought in because Shah knew they were in trouble and needed someone to take the heat off Modi. When the result is this one sided, it's quite likely BJP could tell things weren't right on the ground.
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Maybe. That is a possibility too. My only point is, things are not always straightforward in politics. NCP is prime example in Maharashtra. If they can get in power in coalition with Congress, they will. Otherwise, they will be on 'friendly' terms with BJP-SS. Reason being, NCP big shots have lots of business stakes in the state, particularly in Western Maharashtra.
 
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