No, you judge a manager from day one, you take everything into account whether these things are positive or negative, also if you don't take the caretaking period into account then Ole is one of worst managers in Europe. And there are no reasonable reasons to not take the care taking period into account, from a day to day pov it's the same job, some of you need to remember that being a football managers is mainly about day to day stuff like coaching players individually and collectively, what Ole did the day he arrived at United in December 2018 didn't magically disappear the minute he was named permanent manager, that distinction makes sense for the press when they try to write headlines but for Ole or anyone actually judging his work it makes no sense at all, it's not even fair for him.
An other thing managers are never judged based on whether they have had a summer or a preseason, that's an other nonsensical topic that people use on football forums, pubs or TV studios. And the reason for that is that most managers have little influence on what happens transfer wise, most clubs don't give that responsibility to their head coach and summer is mainly about getting fit for the entirety of the season, tactical and technical drills on top of recuperation are what you focus on during the rest of the season because these things are based on repetition, you don't stop it and don't put a particular emphasis on it during summer at the exception of when a new manager arrives that same summer which doesn't apply to Ole, who coached 90% of these players for 7 months before summer 2019.
The way some of you are talking you would think that Ole arrived this september, that he didn't coach the team for more than a year.
I'm aware how long he has been here however I don't underestimate the importance of a pre-season, it's a fresh start, a break from the carousel that is the league campaign, once your on you can't get off until it's ended. Then you have the best chance to reset mindsets and implement changes.
Like you said, taking away Ole's caretaker period only makes for worse reading when looking at his time here. However this is what I mean, we need a fair way to compare apples for apples.
If you don't have a rough framework of requirements, and importantly over a set period of time, before reviewing a manager then everything is open to interpretation.
At what point of the season the manager took over
Relative strength of the squad
League position when taking over
How many transfer windows they've had to implement their changes
The fact is that if people are looking at Klopp as the example then we will come up short because he is perhaps the best coach in the world at the moment and very effective at getting teams to play his style quickly, he can do this with what I would class as 'lesser players' and turn them into world beaters. Closest thing I've seen to Fergie in that sense though it feckin' pains me to say it.
At the end of the day if we are going to continue to be a club with a high manager turnover we are going to need a system of appraisal to compare each manager like for like of that set period. This is what the club has tried to do with the top four benchmark. What that does however is burden every new manager with pressure to correct 6 years of mismanagement in a single transfer window.
Out of curiosity do you agree with our current merry go round of managers? I think it's highly detrimental especially with what seems to be our dwindling funds/transfer net spend, meaning with each appointment it will become harder to improve as much as we would like.
With each appointment there requires a clear out and restart. This is what I feel most Ole supporters are trying to avoid, people put a spin on it that we are thick and look at Ole with rose tinted glasses because of his past, in reality I feel most are hoping we break the cycle and the wins against big teams as well as decent recruitment has been enough for us to see this season through at least.
For your knowledge Klopp finished 4th in his first full half season.