Impossible Draft QF - Enigma vs Pat

Who will win the draft match?


  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
Voted for Enigma.

I would have voted differently with something like that in terms of profiles

-------------------------------Romario + Leonida
------------------------------------ Rivera
Edgar Davids/Pirès/Matuidi------------------------- Figo
----------------------------------- Edwards
X-------------------------X-----------------------X-------------X-
---------------------------------------X
 
The only real criticism of Batistuta IMO as that his goals sometimes dried up against top opposition, possibly more so than the norm for top strikers.

I recall - or think I recall - Balu calling him a flat track bully once.

Which would be harsh but not entirely without a semblance of reason behind it.

You could probably make a case for him being both overrated and underrated. Generally, though, that's a good sign. Means he was pretty feckin' good all things said.
 
There is a certain segment that simply consider Batistuta immense, no questions asked.

I've always found that slightly problematic if "immense" means Fat Ron territory.

Similar to how certain people think Zidane is easily on par with Cruyff or that calibre of player. The immediate reaction is "hang on now, he was certainly brilliant but let's not get carried away here..."

Batistuta is unclear to me in an all-time setting. He had "immense" qualities, no question about it, but he arguably didn't leave a mark nobody can possibly question.
 
Yea, I know we were down to 10 men but his aerial ability seems amazing. Almost wins all headers with ease, shrugs off players with his sheer physical presence, quickly transitions to an attacking mode with his quick feet and what looks like a bit of wayward passing when he steps out which I guess is okay considering his age. I don't think Keane could ever look so smooth playing that role as Edwards seemed to look.

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I would definitely put him very close to Sammer in terms of style of play.

Sammer's an interesting comparison although I wouldn't play Sammer as a DM either (I did in a Newbie draft but I know better now). For me Sammer plays an attacking CB/libero position or box-to-box CM position
 
Batistuta is unclear to me in an all-time setting. He had "immense" qualities, no question about it, but he arguably didn't leave a mark nobody can possibly question.

I'd probably use the below brackets among few of the modern strikers

1. Ronaldo/Van Basten
2. Batistuta/Henry
3. RvN/Etoo

His career did lack the big club move or a great national team moment of course, but then Henry played alongside illustrious company.

Sammer's an interesting comparison although I wouldn't play Sammer as a DM either (I did in a Newbie draft but I know better now). For me Sammer plays an attacking CB/libero position or box-to-box CM position

I think even Edwards could have been much more than a DM as he grew older. He already was not a limited destroyer alone. He did have aggressive physical attacking instincts which makes me keep him more alongside Sammer and less on the Beckenbauer side. Think with age, he would have been a great libero.

Wanted to pick him in Round 3 itself and it was criminal for him to be available at R4 in this draft. But fecking Stanley Matthews played for England till he was 42 years old and overlapped with Edwards in a few games.
 
There is a certain segment that simply consider Batistuta immense, no questions asked.

I've always found that slightly problematic if "immense" means Fat Ron territory.

Similar to how certain people think Zidane is easily on par with Cruyff or that calibre of player. The immediate reaction is "hang on now, he was certainly brilliant but let's not get carried away here..."

Batistuta is unclear to me in an all-time setting. He had "immense" qualities, no question about it, but he arguably didn't leave a mark nobody can possibly question.

He did leave a mark in Serie A at its heyday that's for sure. As I've mentioned I'd put him in the bracket below the absolute best - Eusebio, Fenomeno, Muller, van Basten, Romario which on it's own it's a pretty good resume.

No doubt he's top 10 for me or thereabouts, if we exclude of course players like Pele and Cristiano who weren't CF's at their peak.

If only he took a career step he could perhaps even surpassed Romario in all time sense considering the rather short European career of the latter.

But with that competition at the time and his goalscoring record he was indeed immense, not quite Fenomeno territory, but then who is?
 
There is a certain segment that simply consider Batistuta immense, no questions asked.

I've always found that slightly problematic if "immense" means Fat Ron territory.

Similar to how certain people think Zidane is easily on par with Cruyff or that calibre of player. The immediate reaction is "hang on now, he was certainly brilliant but let's not get carried away here..."

Batistuta is unclear to me in an all-time setting. He had "immense" qualities, no question about it, but he arguably didn't leave a mark nobody can possibly question.

Aye, he's quite tough to assess really, in terms of skill set as well as CV. With his fearsome long-range shooting he was obviously capable of scoring from pretty much anywhere, and he racked up highly impressive goal tallies even when he was playing in shite teams. However you wouldn't quite class him in that rarefied category with the likes of Luis Ronaldo and Eusebio who are liable to destroy elite defences pretty much by themselves on a regular basis. Partly due to his roving style, and partly due to his inconsistent touch*, he wasn't really a classic line leader either.

There's sufficient gaps in his overall CV that you'd have to conclude that he falls short of that tier of player who you would back as being highly likely to score against any level of opposition most of the time. But then you look at that grouping of players and so many of them enjoyed vastly more favourable circumstances than Batistuta. The likes of Gerd Muller, Eusebio, Pele and Messi spent their entire peak at a single, exceptionally strong club, in all but Messi's case in their native country. Muller and Pele played in some of the strongest national team squads ever, and along with Eusebio played with several of their most prominent club teammates for the national team. We've seen how Messi's goalscoring tails off at the business end of tournaments in less familiar, less favourable setups for Argentina. Puskas played for one of the most overwhelmingly strong national teams ever and in arguably the first ever globalised, Galactico team for Real Madrid. C. Ronaldo played for arguably Utd's greatest ever team and an exceptional Real team, both built around him and increasingly in the era of absurd concentration of talent in the top cluster of clubs.

Luis Ronaldo and Romario are arguably more atypical of the undisputed great goalscorers in that they moved club more frequently, often playing for less dominant teams, and still look top notch in an all-time sense.

Batistuta bears some similarites with van Nistelrooy imo, in that he was unfortunate to play in some relatively lacklustre teams at his peak, generally turned in a superb level of performance anyway, and then ratcheted up a few levels and played a pivotal role in winning trophies when he had a decent platform (Batistuta winning the Scudetto with Roma and the Copa America with Argentina, and Ruud winning the PL in the strong Utd team when he first joined, and then getting back to winning major honours after moving to Real Madrid).

You'd objectively have to rank him below the undisputed top dogs, but it's very tough to decide how close to that grouping he gets as his circumstances were quite different. A lot of it comes down to the eye test and one's perceptions having lived through the era rather than just poring over their records on Wiki, and he scores highly in that regard for me.

* Raees phrased it nicely in an old draft match:

The only thing I dislike about Batistuta was he was inconsistent in a technical sense, one minute he can look so technically accomplished and another moment he looks like Andy Carroll.. but it sort of added to his mystique and unpredictability, defenders never felt comfortable around him.
 
Spot on summary @Pat_Mustard. Reminds me of the Brian Laudrup quote on Bati from their days at Fiorentina together:

I was watching him in training for the first couple of days and he was one of the worst trainers I’d ever seen – his technique was lousy, his shots were going wide. But then he scored ten goals in the first five or six games and I realised what a player he was.
 
Voted for Enigma.

I would have voted differently with something like that in terms of profiles

-------------------------------Romario + Leonida
------------------------------------ Rivera
Edgar Davids/Pirès/Matuidi------------------------- Figo
----------------------------------- Edwards
X-------------------------X-----------------------X-------------X-
---------------------------------------X

Cheers for the comment mate. I see the logic in favor of Edwards as the DM, as ideally you'd want a top-notch defensive presence in direct opposition to Zico. Davids is obviously a top option even in an all-time pool as the left midfielder in a diamond. I really like Matuidi in that role too. Very underrated player whose current World Cup will hopefully elevate his standing. On the other hand, Figo was good in that RCM role but I preferred him as a more orthodox wide player, and I don't think Pires brings enough quite offensive quality to that LCM role to offset how weak that diamond would be defensively, particularly in the wide areas.

I'd personally view

Rivera
Edwards Bonhof
Bozsik
as a superior diamond midfield in most circumstances than

Rivera
Pires Figo
Edwards
The same group of players as the latter option could make for a nice 4-2-3-1 though, with Bozsik coming back into the team instead of Leonidas:

Romario
Pires Rivera Figo
Edwards Bozsik​
 
Surprised you didn't get Blokhin Pat. Obviously Djalma's a shit-hot RB, but could have allowed you to pull in Edwards to match up more to Zico - visually at least on the teamsheet - alongside Bozsik.
 
Spot on summary @Pat_Mustard. Reminds me of the Brian Laudrup quote on Bati from their days at Fiorentina together:

Cheers mate.

Surprised you didn't get Blokhin Pat. Obviously Djalma's a shit-hot RB, but could have allowed you to pull in Edwards to match up more to Zico - visually at least on the teamsheet - alongside Bozsik.

Aye, I was probably too tunnel-visioned about sticking with the diamond, whereas switching to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 would have freed up a 50s spot for Blokhin for an upgrade in star quality and attacking oomph. I could have switched Leonidas for someone who peaked as a right winger with my second pick, with Julinho being an obvious example. To be honest I seem to have developed some sort of morbid fixation with Romario as part of a striker pairing despite his crystal-clear credentials in other formations.