He wasn't that close when he took the shot.
I'm calling it: DDG is the best we've ever had
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
I wouldn't say that is quite true. When he came in his kicking was lauded as one of his strengths, if you look back through the redcafe posts from his early seasons you'll see that fairly obviously, I think, but you're right that he definitely stagnated on that front and then, I would argue, actively regressed. At the same time, we got the emergence of keepers who are ludicrously good with their feet in a way a keeper wasn't expected to be when De Gea was signed, and he is now compared to players like Ederson who, obviously, he doesn't hold a candle to. I would agree with you that it's got worse, but the extent to which he now looks out of place amongst the top keepers is as much a factor of the game changing rapidly in a short space of time as it is his own stagnation and regression.
Ruud only won a league here as well. Not a big deal as he's still considered one of the best strikers ever. Ultimately, history will judge DDG on his performances - and not on the fact that Woodward never gave him a squad that could win more trophies.
What the hell else would I be talking about.
Nope Rashford’s. Martial‘s was an exceptional save. Rashford’s was a good save but if he didn’t save it.... see DDG.
Ruud was a very good striker and was world class in his peak but he was never considered among the best strikers ever. He wasn't even considered the best striker from Holland.
This post made me laugh - I agree a lot with what your saying - just the way you’ve said it is hilarious!
Tricky part about current situation is that we can't really swap him for Henderson even if we wanted. Obviously it's early days for Henderson and we've seen many goalkeepers struggle after initial hype (e.g. Harrt) but if we had been in the same position at the time when Real wanted De Gea, it would have given us much more flexibility. Where we are now we have a heavily paid goalkeeper who probably is not moving anywhere for the next 3-4 years and has been out of form for a while.
With goalkeepers I always prefer certainty over being flashy. I'd much rather have a goalkeeper that I know won't win us many games with spectacular, unexpected saves but will also make very few errors than a goalkeeper who will have a stormer every now and again and will turn a loss into a draw/win but will just as frequently screw up the whole game by not doing the basics right... I fear De Gea is heading into that second group slowly.
With goalkeepers I always prefer certainty over being flashy. I'd much rather have a goalkeeper that I know won't win us many games with spectacular, unexpected saves but will also make very few errors than a goalkeeper who will have a stormer every now and again and will turn a loss into a draw/win but will just as frequently screw up the whole game by not doing the basics right... I fear De Gea is heading into that second group slowly.
Okay thought you meant the Dutch Nation not world wide.
Rashfords shot had very little power on it
it was more the quickness he took it that made it a good reaction save but was nowhere near as powerful as their goal. Go back and watch it again he absolutely leathers it.
Those who were praising him for it were clueless (me included if I did that) and the fact that he never worked and improved on it is ridiculous to me.
Nah, I think you're just genuinely doing him a disservice, and tbf, I'd forgotten the season he had under Van Gaal with Hoek as his coach where it improved again, but as this thread shows it's definitely not people you'd characterise as 'clueless' who were putting the idea forward that his distribution was good:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/de-geas-kicking.402699/
I do think it was below the levels we see from keepers now, however, which makes it look worse in hindsight, but I do wonder how much that has to do with managers like Moyes and Mourinho who just wanted him to lump it whenever he got it.
Same old Redcafe, grass is always greener on other side.
Next you'll be saying to swap him with Ben Foster
Yes he could have done a bit better with the shot but he absolutely pelted it straight at him, by the time he managed to move his arms it already hit him - slow motion always makes it look worse.
Nobody is talking about the great save from Son to keep us in the match though
If it’s a one-off, then we shrug our shoulders. The problem is that his poor play at the end of last season cost us 6 points. He hasn’t been the same since the mistake he made for Spain in the World Cup. I agree that the Caf has a lot of knee jerk reactions (like calling for SAF to get sacked), but DeGea has been so inconsistent over the last 2 years that it objectively makes sense to question his true value to the squad when you factor in wages and potential transfer fees.
The thing that annoys me about daves errors is they always seem to be at crucial times like at 0-0 or 1-0 up and never when you've the game won. Seem to always be when we're the better side in a game too and totally ruins the momentum
Lots of errors over the last 2 years
is it fair to say this isnt 'form' and now a characteristic of his goalkeeping
He's generally had a good season but he has made a few errors and you wouldnt say hes been close to his best
Mistakes of concentration seem to be the issue
is it fair to say this isnt 'form' and now a characteristic of his goalkeeping
He's generally had a good season but he has made a few errors and you wouldnt say hes been close to his best
Mistakes of concentration seem to be the issue
Still think he is a great goalkeeper, but that contract we've given him was one of a very long line of contracts we've handed out over the past few years that are just so far and above the market value and made the players unsellable.
Now we have Henderson coming through and he is not going to get a chance as we handed out the biggest contact to a goalkeeper of all time.
Now we have Henderson coming through and he is not going to get a chance as we handed out the biggest contact to a goalkeeper of all time.
What I don't like with how we treat DDG is that there never seems to be any chance he will be dropped. There's almost an acceptance about his recent form and him making errors - it's like we've loved him for so long we're refusing to accept the reality which is for the last two seasons he has not been good enough over the course of a season.
Some things in football are so simple and yet not addressed. We have a GK who stays in his area, doesn't particularly like coming for crosses and whose strengths are shot stopping, reactions, handling. Combine that with two CBs who are probably best described as possessing average pace and you create this vacuum of pace in the centre of our defensive unit (add in Matic and this is further compounded although he is still our best DM).
You mitigate this risk if you play high possession football (which DDG did relatively well under LVG) because there are far less opposition attacks to deal with during a game but we don't, Ole likes to play high risk direct football which gives opponents plenty of countering opportunities. We have so many good players now (we must have one of if not the most expensive squad in the league) that we will win games purely on individual brilliance (we picked up points against Spurs thanks exclusively to Pogba) but it masks the fact we're not playing particularly well. our position in the league is fair, that's the level we're at right now and it shouldn't be given the strength of our squad.
Some things in football are so simple and yet not addressed. We have a GK who stays in his area, doesn't particularly like coming for crosses and whose strengths are shot stopping, reactions, handling. Combine that with two CBs who are probably best described as possessing average pace and you create this vacuum of pace in the centre of our defensive unit (add in Matic and this is further compounded although he is still our best DM).
You mitigate this risk if you play high possession football (which DDG did relatively well under LVG) because there are far less opposition attacks to deal with during a game but we don't, Ole likes to play high risk direct football which gives opponents plenty of countering opportunities. We have so many good players now (we must have one of if not the most expensive squad in the league) that we will win games purely on individual brilliance (we picked up points against Spurs thanks exclusively to Pogba) but it masks the fact we're not playing particularly well. our position in the league is fair, that's the level we're at right now and it shouldn't be given the strength of our squad.
Schmeichel gets my vote.
In my opinion De Gea isn't vocal enough and I believe he is actually weak mentally - you only have to see the amount of times his head drops and he always looks down.
I'm not in any way clued up on all aspects of goalkeeping, and I don't claim to be, however the goal he let in against Tottenham was absolutely flawed - when the footage is slowed down you can actually see him clench his fist (creating a smaller surface area in which to stop the ball), as opposed to having an open palm (creating a larger surface area in which to stop the ball).
Lo and behold the ball ricocheted off his clenched fist into the back of the net.
...all of this before we even discuss the ludicrous wages he gets.
In my opinion De Gea isn't vocal enough and I believe he is actually weak mentally - you only have to see the amount of times his head drops and he always looks down.
I'm not in any way clued up on all aspects of goalkeeping, and I don't claim to be, however the goal he let in against Tottenham was absolutely flawed - when the footage is slowed down you can actually see him clench his fist (creating a smaller surface area in which to stop the ball), as opposed to having an open palm (creating a larger surface area in which to stop the ball).
Lo and behold the ball ricocheted off his clenched fist into the back of the net.
...all of this before we even discuss the ludicrous wages he gets.
He's been poor for 18 months now.How long should he be able to live off those three or four seasons when he was excellent?
I think I have had that. Until now, I wasn't really bothered about his form because a lot of the criticism was way over the top compared to someone like Neuer who also regressed. Truth be told though, while not alone and far from the worst, DDG has not been up to standard the last two years. I think it has only been fair to give him the benefit of the doubt up until now, but his place is far from safe and I think we might see Ole giving him a rest or something in the near future. He might still prove himself again with more competition once we bring Henderson back, but if he doesn't then Henderson will surely take his place and that'll be it.
It has to be considered for the plan for next season.
Its like a golfer with the putting yips. As someone once joked - the best place to shoot the ball is straight at him. He makes the spectacular routine, and the routine a wreck.
Its a pretty niche goal keeping style. Combine that with his so so distribution and it presents a weakness in our side. Such is life but moving forwards its hard to consider him one of our key players.
I was among minority who always used to say we shouldn't be awarding De Gea a new contract and should think about selling him asap.
It is a similar situation like we had when Moyes awarded Rooney a 6 years contract in 2013. While Rooney should have been sold in 2012.
Big Pete is far better in organising the defence, and far better in one on one situation l, and ball distribution too.He simply has no weakness. De Gea is better at reflex save though, that’s about it. He is weak at cross and ball distribution, and not good at organising the defence.
I remember this thread but I remember disagreeing with it
Youtube has recommended a lot of old United videos, and there's an endless number of goals against Schmeichel where I keep thinking DDG would either do better or would be slaughtered if he let it in. It's not just people chipping him after he comes charging, it's also random shots not far from him that go right through.
Where he had the very clear edge is one-on-ones, DDG is just OK at them but he was frighteningly quick and big, distibution with his throws, and of course dealing with corners.
In my mind VDS was always the ultra-reliable unspectacular one but even from him these highlights have questionable moments.
It would be interesting - and very time consuming - to see all the goal they've conceded and see how many are howlers/questionable. From his arrival till 2018, DDG would probably win that. 2019 onwards is a different thing, I wonder if the world cup or Jose's last season broke him.
Where he had the very clear edge is one-on-ones, DDG is just OK at them but he was frighteningly quick and big, distibution with his throws, and of course dealing with corners.
In my mind VDS was always the ultra-reliable unspectacular one but even from him these highlights have questionable moments.
It would be interesting - and very time consuming - to see all the goal they've conceded and see how many are howlers/questionable. From his arrival till 2018, DDG would probably win that. 2019 onwards is a different thing, I wonder if the world cup or Jose's last season broke him.
Agreed. Under LvG and Joses first couple of seasons he would deliver match winning performances on the regular, but it seems these days hes just as likely to make a howler as he is to make one of his trademark saves. The one vs Spurs was not the worst, but honestly its something you expect any PL keeper to save. I've seen some statistics floating around and on xG/saves DDG is actually pretty far down the table this season compared to other keepers
His problems are in his head. Keep in mind that his time playing for Spain has not exactly been kind to him. And ALL the problems he has had only started after he had his debut for Spain. I don't think it has anything to do with transfers, him wanting to leave or bla bla. He has always been incredibly proffesional in that regard. Have his back, and lets see if he can turn this around before next season, whenever the hell that will start. He has stilled saved us A LOT more often than he has let us down.
Schmikes
vds
Stepney
ddg a long way behind
vds
Stepney
ddg a long way behind
You can see a mistake coming in every game now unfortunately. I hoped the 3 month break would help him, but it hasn't. It's a case of when not if now with flogging him. Keep him another season, lose another 5-10 goals due to mistakes? Or get some decent money for him and put our trust into Hendo. I know what I'd do.
I stand by my original post. Schmeichel is the best goalkeeper of my lifetime.
He literally had everything you’d want from a keeper and more. He could scare opposition strikers. Imagine the thoughts going through your head in a 1 to 1 with him? Probably why he won many of those duels.
He was also a handy lad to have for penalties or
grabbing a goal.
DDG is a level below for me. He ticks a lot of boxes but not as many, and isn’t strong enough in some areas like distribution or command of his entire 18 yard box.
I didn’t see Stepney so I’d have from my lifetime:
Schmeichel
VDS
DeGea
Honorary mention for Gary Bailey
He literally had everything you’d want from a keeper and more. He could scare opposition strikers. Imagine the thoughts going through your head in a 1 to 1 with him? Probably why he won many of those duels.
He was also a handy lad to have for penalties or
grabbing a goal.
DDG is a level below for me. He ticks a lot of boxes but not as many, and isn’t strong enough in some areas like distribution or command of his entire 18 yard box.
I didn’t see Stepney so I’d have from my lifetime:
Schmeichel
VDS
DeGea
Honorary mention for Gary Bailey
Anyone found it a bit strange he opted to save with his hands against Bergwijn?
Normally we've seen him in the past save these types of shots that are low and powerful.
I just found it strange that on this occasion he went with his hands and not his feet, as he usually would.
Normally we've seen him in the past save these types of shots that are low and powerful.
I just found it strange that on this occasion he went with his hands and not his feet, as he usually would.
I think that’s what the problem was he made his feet wide and kept his arms close to his body instead of making himself big like a starfish, too reliant on his feet at times.
As much the managers fault as anyone's.
Woodward is still there now and we are hopefully going to finish the season strong with top 4 finish and 2 cups still to see out.
At this moment in time de gea reminds me of barthez, can pull of a brilliant save one minute and then make an obvious error the next minute.
Imagine actually believing this guy is the best United keeper ever.
Silly Nick being silly.
Imagine being dumb enough to think bad form now cancels out what happened before.
Not fit to fasten Edwin's gloves, never mind Big Pete's.
Bad form? This has been happening for 4 season's on and off, at this point his good seasons look like the anomaly
quick, delete the thread before anyone see it and be an embarrassment.