Il Fenomeno Draft - R1 - DVG7 vs. Šjor Bepo

With players at their career peak, who would win?

  • DVG7

    Votes: 7 46.7%

  • Šjor Bepo

    Votes: 8 53.3%
  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
DVG7 said:
@Šjor Bepo just took a break to educate myself on chislenko and thought I should share.




Seems like you’ve painted Chislenko as doing a little bit of everything in your set up when in reality that’s not going to get the best out him.
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Id be honest, i had no clue about Chislenko before this draft but after reading a bit and watching him one full game + few short clips you can find on the caf from previous draft it looked like a perfect player for my setup.
Here you have him against peak Facchetti, dont think many players destroyed him as much as this:

Here you having just ghosting away from Bobby Moore:


and if you want to use @harms as source we can always use this:
Harms said:
Igor Chislenko – the best right winger in Soviet history, who was one of the most important players in that 1964 USSR side. In the qualifiers he humiliated Facchetti and he continued with his form in the final stages of the tournament, providing incisive runs and assisting Voronin in the semis. In the final he should’ve had a match-winning penalty after he left for dead 3 Spanish defenders, but he was unlucky. He was an incredibly hardworking player, who dropped back in midfield when he was asked to or cut inside in the centre forward role. Another one that missed 1968 tournament due to injury, which he had just a few days prior the semi-final against Italy – which is a shame, because he already scored another one past Facchetti in 1966 and surely he was looking forward to it, being in the form of his life.
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and few more clips as well:
GOAL - WC 1962 - USSR - Columbia - Starting and closing point



GOAL - WC 1962 USSR - Chile - Starting and closing point


GOAL - WC 1966 - USSR - Hungary





GOAL - WC 1966 - USSR - Italy



Others




 
Šjor Bepo said:
Id be honest, i had no clue about Chislenko before this draft but after reading a bit and watching him one full game + few short clips you can find on the caf from previous draft it looked like a perfect player for my setup.
Here you have him against peak Facchetti, dont think many players destroyed him as much as this:

Here you having just ghosting away from Bobby Moore:


and if you want to use @harms as source we can always use this:


and few more clips as well:
GOAL - WC 1962 - USSR - Columbia - Starting and closing point



GOAL - WC 1962 USSR - Chile - Starting and closing point


GOAL - WC 1966 - USSR - Hungary





GOAL - WC 1966 - USSR - Italy



Others




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He’s fine as a RW in a 433. My midfield is the two best central midfielders of all time plus Mario Coluna, you need as much help as you can get and chislenko is not providing it.
 
DVG7 said:
@Šjor Bepo how come belodidici didn’t get any votes in the caf greatest player by position lists?
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Because some players are just underrated and unknown to majority? Not many people watch games of Zvezda, Steaua and Romania....
feck i watched that Zvezda run probably 4 times in my life and only in last i started paying attention to Belodedici as i was either just enjoying the game and casually watching or was focusing more on more hyped players of that team like Prosinecki and Savicevic.
 
DVG7 said:
Seems like you’ve painted Chislenko as doing a little bit of everything in your set up when in reality that’s not going to get the best out him.
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It was a comment about using him as a right winger in zona mista. He's perfectly placed in Sjor's set up here.
 
DVG7 said:
He’s fine as a RW in a 433. My midfield is the two best central midfielders of all time plus Mario Coluna, you need as much help as you can get and chislenko is not providing it.
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Except he played in 442 for majority of his game against Italy and his workrate was top notch, but hey keep going if you throw much more shit some will stick....tried with Spencer first, then Lahm, some sticked to poor Andres and now this poor asian fella is the next victim.
Rest of this crap you posted i wont even bother to respond.
 
harms said:
It was a comment about using him as a right winger in zona mista. He's perfectly placed in Sjor's set up here.
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According to a Russian. He offers little defensively if we Assume his peak years.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Except he played in 442 for majority of his game against Italy and his workrate was top notch, but hey keep going if you throw much more shit some will stick....tried with Spencer first, then Lahm, some sticked to poor Andres and now this poor asian fella is the next victim.
Rest of this crap you posted i wont even bother to respond.
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You think your midfield won’t get steamrolled?
 
@Edgar Allan Pillow just so you know for your game jimmy Johnstone could do everything. He took the longest throw ins, Rabona corners and defended like zanetti, Baresi, Rijkaard and a missile defence system combined.

Courtesy of a Scottish guy, Talking about a Scottish player.
 
harms said:
Can you point me to a quote that says that?
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I’m referencing the match footage I’ve watched. He’s a bloody great right winger, but when you’re up against my midfield some sacrifices have to be made and he simply isn’t capable from what I’ve seen of making any tangible difference against Rijkaard, Coluna, matthaus, nedved and a deep lying at times Dalglish.
 
Chislenko wasn't non-defending. Maybe a bit earlier than some other countries, Soviet football started to become embroiled in lots of tactical debates about universality in playing style by the mid-60s and one of the main reasons Chislenko on the right and Khusainov on the left-wing began to be picked over the two earlier established Georgians Metreveli and Meskhi was because they did defend and were perceived as being a more modern new style of winger and versatile (both played also seasons in the inside right/left positions with a lot of linking up with midfield two involved) where the other two were in the classic '50s winger or Garrincha/Jinky style and 90% about dribbling and attacking.

He isn't in his main position here, but in a similar way as Nedved was not ideally a 4-3-3 player.
 
DVG7 said:
I don’t drink but I’ll raise a glass of orange juice to a time where midfields used to matter in deciding the outcome of a game.
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agreed, not sure why they even play 11v11 it should just be a 5aside game of midfield against midfield.
 
DVG7 said:
I’m referencing the match footage I’ve watched. He’s a bloody great right winger, but when you’re up against my midfield some sacrifices have to be made and he simply isn’t capable from what I’ve seen of making any tangible difference against Rijkaard, Coluna, matthaus, nedved and a deep lying at times Dalglish.
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And which game was that?
 
DVG7 said:
Na everyone knows you need a stopper and a poacher in any 5aside lineup
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will your stopper recover from his 8 game season? Might be too much for him.....
 
Šjor Bepo said:
will your stopper recover from his 8 game season? Might be too much for him.....
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Will your best player ever score a Club goal without an asterisk next to it because it may Or may not have been a friendly?
 
@Šjor Bepo it would have been nice to be able to tag some of your voters to show them that you really had no idea who one of your picks was before the draft.
 
@harms who is chislenkos competition for best RW for the soviets? Would like to learn more about some of these players.
 
this is sad mane, you wonna advance to the next round? id gladly give you the win
 
@Šjor Bepo How good was Gemmell going forward? Looking at your setup it I would prefer a more attacking LB here to allow Iniesta more freedom - it could be a souped up version of Cole, Pires and Henry.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Šjor Bepo How good was Gemmell going forward? Looking at your setup it I would prefer a more attacking LB here to allow Iniesta more freedom - it could be a souped up version of Cole, Pires and Henry.
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he was a offensive fullback so was pretty good, not really a dribbling one but overlapped often enough and even more importantly had great use of the ball which should suit Iniesta
 
Good luck in the next round @Šjor Bepo. You obviously drafted hoping to get through and you are primed for reinforcements (I bet you have your eye on two of my players) so I can see you going very far.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Šjor Bepo How good was Gemmell going forward? Looking at your setup it I would prefer a more attacking LB here to allow Iniesta more freedom - it could be a souped up version of Cole, Pires and Henry.
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Excellent, he’s not too dissimilar to Andy Robertson, the only difference being where robbo would be looking to cross gemmell would want to shoot. I didn’t mention gemmell the whole game because he’s perfect for sjors team.
 
DVG7 said:
Good luck in the next round @Šjor Bepo. You obviously drafted hoping to get through and you are primed for reinforcements (I bet you have your eye on two of my players) so I can see you going very far.
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cheers and not really but we will see what happens
 
Physiocrat said:
@Šjor Bepo How good was Gemmell going forward? Looking at your setup it I would prefer a more attacking LB here to allow Iniesta more freedom - it could be a souped up version of Cole, Pires and Henry.
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He reminded me of a budget version of Facchetti. His performances in the European Cup finals or a game that we've seen for the Dead Drafters thingy were pretty mint.
 
harms said:
He reminded me of a budget version of Facchetti. His performances in the European Cup finals or a game that we've seen for the Dead Drafters thingy were pretty mint.
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Cool. In that case it is a really well constructed team although it might make more sense for Belololo to be RCB if Gemmel is more attacking than Lahm.
 
DVG7 said:
Won’t be commenting much today, grandmother passed away from Covid this morning so have a few calls to make. @Šjor Bepo not sure which way things will go but cheers for the game xxx
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Sorry to hear this. Best wishes mate
 
Gio said:
Think he works great as an all-round line-leader. For me Dalglish could play everywhere from #8 through to #9 and did that various points in his career. His back to goal game is amongst the best of all time. Defenders could not get round that big fat arse of his and he had eyes in the back of his head, knowing where the incoming centre-half was going and reading where his strike partner was going to go. You'd want that burst of acceleration elsewhere in the front line to mimic the synergy of his partnership with Rush. Therefore you can see him working well with Lato in particular in that channel between the left-back and centre-half. Same with Matthaus who would relish a striker who can hold the ball in for him to burst forward, in much the same way Terry McDermott did, helping him along to 20 goals a season in his pomp.
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Jim Beam said:
So, like Suarez?
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Such was Dalglish's skill at holding on to the ball that, years later, the former Arsenal and Republic of Ireland defender David O'Leary would describe trying to rob him of possession as "impossible."

"He crouches over the ball, legs spread and elbows poking out," said O'Leary. "Whatever angle you come in from, you're liable to find his backside in your face."
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Keegan and Dalglish by Richard T Kelly said:
Dalglish had a particular issue on which he wanted to work: how to deal with a defender harrying him from behind as the ball came to him with his back to goal. As McGrain put it, Dalglish was most fastidious about 'what kind of pass he wanted if some defender was up his backside'.

Dalglish's backside was proving to be no small thing in his development as a player. His low center of gravity contributed to the quality of balance that he had, coupled with the strength in his hips and thighs, helping him to crouch possesively over the ball, shielding it, legs wide, elbows apart, destabilizing his marker. If his back was to goal, what next? Try to turn with the ball at pace or play it off to precisely to a teammate? One thing that became clear to him on the blaes pitch, with its sharp-etched summer shadows, was how to use the sun in his decision making. Dalglish realised he could study the shadows on the ground to judge which side he would be tackled from. And if he spun away in the opposite direction, that notable backside of his made a barrier to help him leave his marker behind him in the dust.
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Šjor Bepo said:
I dont know why he has so little games internationally, maybe @antohan knows if he is even around this days.....
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Basic stuff back then: foreign-based players rarely (if ever) played for their NT. In fact, the norm was you played for your adopted country (e.g. ADS playing for Spain) but, despite featuring in a couple of friendlies, Spencer consistently turned down the approaches to be a regular for the Uruguayan NT. Joya likewise.

1966 could have turned out very different.

Even in the early 80s we had regular citizens (inc. Nacional fans) raising funds to purchase Morena from Valencia and back to Peñarol hoping to add goals to our NTs attack. As it turns out, they raised enough to meet the asking price but it was too late for WC82 qualification to be mathematically possible. Peñarol won the Libertadores that year though, with Morena scoring in the final.
 
antohan said:
Basic stuff back then: foreign-based players rarely (if ever) played for their NT. In fact, the norm was you played for your adopted country (e.g. ADS playing for Spain) but, despite featuring in a couple of friendlies, Spencer consistently turned down the approaches to be a regular for the Uruguayan NT. Joya likewise.

1966 could have turned out very different.

Even in the early 80s we had regular citizens (inc. Nacional fans) raising funds to purchase Morena from Valencia and back to Peñarol hoping to add goals to our NTs attack. As it turns out, they raised enough to meet the asking price but it was too late for WC82 qualification to be mathematically possible. Peñarol won the Libertadores that year though, with Morena scoring in the final.
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cheers, though why didnt he play more for Ecuador?
 
Šjor Bepo said:
cheers, though why didnt he play more for Ecuador?
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Because he spent the bulk of his career playing abroad. Again, foreign-based players rarely got call ups, there wasn't enough money in football to be flying people back and forth for games on an individual basis.

Home? Play home players. Away? Stick them all on a single plane.
 
antohan said:
Because he spent the bulk of his career playing abroad. Again, foreign-based players rarely got call ups, there wasn't enough money in football to be flying people back and forth for games on an individual basis.

Home? Play home players. Away? Stick them all on a single plane.
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guess it makes sense, you never really think about that part of the game.
 
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