No we wouldn’t. Not unless complete lunatics.
Have you watched us this season? We have been absolute dog shit, the worst I have seen us in my lifetime. How did you go from that to expecting a comfortable 5/5 wins within a 2 week period?
If we finish 4th, should Ole get the job full time? [Poll added]
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
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No we wouldn’t. Not unless complete lunatics.
Have you watched us this season? We have been absolute dog shit, the worst I have seen us in my lifetime. How did you go from that to expecting a comfortable 5/5 wins within a 2 week period?
The last time if I am correct was 1946
It was our second string. Probably goes to prove who shouldnt be getting games, rather than a bigger picture look. Our starting front 4 didnt play.
Or, they can bring him in as a super sub manager every time it goes awry with the other permanent solutions?
If we make top four by putting in consistently good performances from now to the end of the season Ole should be seriously considered.
If we make top four because Arsenal and Chelsea collapse then no.
If we make top four because Arsenal and Chelsea collapse then no.
4th place is not demanded.
You have the job, Ole.
You have the job, Ole.
But we're going to need them to collapse a bit for us to make it? We don't make top 4 without the teams above us slipping up. You don't get extra points for good performances.
This. Well said.
So far, Ole is definitely a huge breath of fresh air, oozing positivity and definitely reviving back the United identity.
The potential long term problem is he's just too nice, like he's too accepting of our players. That's the impression he's giving so far. Still early days, just 5 games and about a month with this squad. I hope that's just in front, and backstage he can be ruthless.
A permanent United manager need to be ruthless. Not in a way like what the previous manager did throwing players criticising-humiliating them publicly in interviews. But more on to making the ballsy decisions in dropping players especially the deadwood (their reputations irrelevant, so does their past achievements), even the ego star players if necessary, even kick them out of the club if we have to, just like what Ferguson did in his early years (annoyingly too lenient he became at his older years before retiring keeping too much shit players). If the players are not good no more, ruthlessly phase them out of the squad. If the players also creating shit team atmosphere, or having problematic behaviors, be ruthless with these players.
You can be gentle, while being ruthless at the same time.
I think we can see whether Ole have this more and more towards the end of this season, but maybe not enough yet still give some ideas. If Ole did the "right things" ruthlessly, with the players who fail to perform or behave, then I think we should let him continue, hypothetically if he want to continue of course, but on a shorter term 1 to 2 years only. Main reason is more on to the maintenance of the United way, purely his football system so far is right and United.
So far, I just can't see that ruthlessness of him. More matches left, more chances for Ole to show if he have that "assassinate" characteristic of a United manager.
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I see a DOF is getting over and over-rated now.. in a sense there seems to be a huge confidence the new DOF will be excellent in his job.
It's not certain, same thing with prev manager trio -- the club may possibly will hire a shit DOF, who knows shit nothing about the United way and/or may be terrible at the other aspects like so bad at negotiating transfer prices and contract wages.I'm pro giving ole the Job. I think in Phelan and being in contact with Sir Alex to having worked with youth and knowing what it means, I'd give him a years contract rolling. I think what we need now is someone who gets it and don't overcomplicate anything. Are the conditions 100 as they typically would be? Maybe not but you still got to win games. We've seen so much that was lacking from the team and I think IF the board support him properly, he would do a good job actually. Ole has lost as a manager. I don't think he's under any illusions. We may loose to spurs but you know even under Sir Alex we might have lost. Teams will lose even great ones.
What we've seen is someone who has shown faith in the team and the team will and have responded. Playing attacking football. Being fearless. We have a decent foundation but need to replace some who are getting on in years. It's up to the scouts etc tio bring good players to the clubs attention. And like anything you need luck. It would be the same with any other manager.
What we've seen is someone who has shown faith in the team and the team will and have responded. Playing attacking football. Being fearless. We have a decent foundation but need to replace some who are getting on in years. It's up to the scouts etc tio bring good players to the clubs attention. And like anything you need luck. It would be the same with any other manager.
Ah, so you could have won 3 CL titles too. Gotcha.
I’m sorry I called you irrational. You’re not. You’re a lunatic.
No.... Probably 4 CL
You could make the reverse arguments here as well.
Ole came in when morale was really low and people wanted to leave ... Why would they bother for a shit interim manager unless the manager was good enough to motivate them. If expectations are low, it's quite remarkable that he has players putting in 120% when they could just skate by
Ole has done very well but the big test starts next week against Tottenham away. I am really looking forward to see how he manages the side in this one.
1. Does he still go gungho and attack.
2. How does he set up to play a more defensive/cum counter attacking game, against the top sides.
3. His management skills will be brought to the task against a manager who is favourite to take his place.
1. Does he still go gungho and attack.
2. How does he set up to play a more defensive/cum counter attacking game, against the top sides.
3. His management skills will be brought to the task against a manager who is favourite to take his place.
I’m not advocating for Ole to be our manager just yet. But let’s forward wind to May and IF he manages to get us top 4, a good showing in the CL and against the top 5 PL teams and an FA cup trophy - this compared to Spurs who get too top 4 only. Will you still say that Poch is better than Ole?
Remember everyone claims that Spurs has a better team and squad than us right now. So if Ole manages to match Poch with a top 4 finish and trump him one with a trophy with an inferior squad of players who were all in the pits of decline when Jose was sacked, who would be the better choice then?
Remember everyone claims that Spurs has a better team and squad than us right now. So if Ole manages to match Poch with a top 4 finish and trump him one with a trophy with an inferior squad of players who were all in the pits of decline when Jose was sacked, who would be the better choice then?
still early days
when things go bad can Ole keep this team believing in themselves and playing well...that will be the test
the great thing is that Ole or our next manager will see what potential our players have - under Jose we had 25 underperforming players
when things go bad can Ole keep this team believing in themselves and playing well...that will be the test
the great thing is that Ole or our next manager will see what potential our players have - under Jose we had 25 underperforming players
In the NeXT match against Spurs we will probably lose because of blunders in our own defense, so it will be even more obvious where the weak links are.
Nothing Ole can do about that yet, the owners will need some incentives before they go out shopping. But with reinforcements in place it will be time for having a team in place that could beat any of the top 4.
Then he will have a real chance at showing the world he is worthy of the job.
Nothing Ole can do about that yet, the owners will need some incentives before they go out shopping. But with reinforcements in place it will be time for having a team in place that could beat any of the top 4.
Then he will have a real chance at showing the world he is worthy of the job.
Actually SAF was very very hands on when he first took over at United.He was known to be excellent at putting together challenging and innovative training sessions.Infact he was so hands on that Archie Knox(his first assistant)frequently used to complain about not having any work to do!!
SAF started backing off a bit from 1997 onwards,and Ofcourse from 2003 he had established such a strong grip over the club that he could afford to not be completely involved in planning every training session.SAF could afford to delegate so much to his coaches because of his experience and because of the authority that he commanded in that dressing room.
Ole or any manager can’t afford to conduct training sessions the way SAF used to conduct them.Ole or any other manager has to be very very hands on in challenging the players tactically,mentally and physically every single day.Remember these guys are already top top players....Improving them by putting on innovative training sessions is an enormous challenge.Thats why there are only a handful of world class managers around....
Great post mate, agree with it all.
Reading my post back I think I was originally trying to point out that it’s not just the training and there’s other stuff to consider, I just went too far the one way.
I agree with all your post actually
A common theme on this thread was we didn’t know how he would do when he played anybody decent. Whilst we’ve still not played Chelsea (think we’ll win that one handily), Liverpool or City and that top 3 is now within touching distance, have anybody’s thoughts changed?
I'd give it to him now, and also make sure the whole coaching team remains in place.
Yes, I believe Phelan is crucial
Hasn’t he said he’s gojng to return to the team he was helping out, that he was in regular contact with advice? Maybe he might not want to stay.
Yeah he had a job in Australia so might be enjoying the sunshine. It’ll be interesting to see if he would commit to a longer spell if Ole stays. I have a horrible feeling that they’ve already decided that ole won’t be the long term option
I want him in but lets let another month or two pass by.
I still think we have one test remaining: what happens after we lose? Will Ole be able to instill the comeback mentality in the boys or will it be another downward spiral
I still think we have one test remaining: what happens after we lose? Will Ole be able to instill the comeback mentality in the boys or will it be another downward spiral
And if we do and don't win another game all season the decision would look mightily daft wouldn't it
I'm not sure why so many are in a rush to get it done now but it does raise a question if Ole doesn't get top 4 what then? If we were to only miss out narrowly it can obviously be blamed for our poor start under the previous regime however the point will remain the same - no UCL next season so do we stick or twist?
All that is clear at this point is that if Ole does get top 4 he probably does get the job and only time will tell if that's a good thing
No-one can guarantee result.
Ole has provided us with framework to attack and platform to win football matches. We saw this in the 8 tests we had. The rest you cannot guarantee. Decisions shouldn't be swayed by one game.
The dilemma for any club is to decide to buy an outsider or stick with homegrown talents. The Scousers employed home grown managers successfully and then it failed from which they have struggled to recover for decades. Fergie was clever bringing outside assistant managers to refresh the backroom. Then Moyes canned that structure in a mammoth mistake and since then we’ve had a mix of charlatans and cast offs. What we have now is a cobbled together solution, partly based on the Fergie model, partly hangovers and partly fresh ideas but together it’s a modern management team. In this regard I would give credit to both Ole and Phelan, but also the other three for building a team so quickly.
If we were relying solely on Fergie tactics I don’t think we’d have done too well. What we have is modern tactics, modern management and modern coaching with Fergie’s style of squad management. Our tactics have been perfect although we had wobbly moments against Spurs and Arsenal. These have come from the management team with Ole responsible for the outcome. The transformation from dystopia to euphoria is massive, most of us seem incapable of recalling a parallel in our history. Ole has gone from a high impact sub to a high impact manager.
If this continues to the end of the season with 4th and having good cup runs, I can’t see anyone replacing Ole. But if Ole leaves I think a new manager would have the horrendous task of not only providing good football but ensuring the positive atmosphere remains. We’re in a strange place - Ole feels like the answer but his success raises a number of issues (transfers especially) with deep ramifications for the club’s future.
If we were relying solely on Fergie tactics I don’t think we’d have done too well. What we have is modern tactics, modern management and modern coaching with Fergie’s style of squad management. Our tactics have been perfect although we had wobbly moments against Spurs and Arsenal. These have come from the management team with Ole responsible for the outcome. The transformation from dystopia to euphoria is massive, most of us seem incapable of recalling a parallel in our history. Ole has gone from a high impact sub to a high impact manager.
If this continues to the end of the season with 4th and having good cup runs, I can’t see anyone replacing Ole. But if Ole leaves I think a new manager would have the horrendous task of not only providing good football but ensuring the positive atmosphere remains. We’re in a strange place - Ole feels like the answer but his success raises a number of issues (transfers especially) with deep ramifications for the club’s future.
I would give him the job no matter what will happen in the rest of the season.
Not by one game. Like I said, when and if we lose shouldn't matter but it's how we react to that. You are right in usual situations you can't get a full answer but we have the luxury of having our manager on trial for a few months so why not take advantage of it to make sure there are no red flags.
A possible red flag, we lose one game and the team just starts spiraling into defeat after defeat (highly, highly unlikely! Just giving an example).
On the other hand, say we lose to PSG but the next game we come back strong. To me that would make the decision even easier that we're not riding an incredible wave of confidence right now but truly are building something special.
Anyway, if we had to make a decision right now, think I'd go for Ole myself. It definitely is a difficult decision because I think people underrate how good Pochetinio is as well.
There is no urgancy. Lets wait till end of season
I disagree, for me he has done enough both on and off the pitch already - he knows the DNA of the club and has shown he can have significant impact on the pitch, but behind the scenes too, restoring our spirit. I'd prefer him taking over now than taking another risk with another coach, be it Pochettino, Zidane or anyone else.
You disagree with what? I didn't give any opinion
If we get past PSG and he gets the FA Cup then yes.
If just 4th? No.
We are not Arsenal. 4th is not a trophy.
If just 4th? No.
We are not Arsenal. 4th is not a trophy.
I believe Ole already got the job based upon everyone's renewing and signing their contracts. Even those who did not want to do it under Jose!
No, fourth isn't a trophy, the achievement wouldn't be in the fact he got fourth, it would be in the fact he got fourth when we were so far behind at the point he took over.
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"And if we do and don't win another game all season the decision would look mightily daft wouldn't it"
The fact that we would look 'mightily daft' if we gave the job to Ole and then didn't win a game all season. But this is now discussing linguistic semantics.
I feel as if Phelan's influence here is being underplayed. As well as Carrick and Mckenna. In my opinion Mckenna has been influential in setting us up against the minnows, when he coached the youth team he set the team up in a similar way. That counter attacking performance against Arsenal has Phelan written all over it. While Carrick would have been essential is getting Ole up to speed with the squad since he has worked with many of these, I think the Matic-Herrera-Pogba midfield was Carrick's recommendation. I believe the biggest influence from Ole is getting a tune out of our forward line, all of them have stepped up and Ole has probably been coaching them to improve their forward play.
Fully agree. It is more about the team of coaches and the manager working together than only the manager being brilliant in his own way(Pep G). And similar to how the modern leadership/management model is more flat and democratic with everyone encouraged to say and give their opinion and being treated well, the same can be said about our current management/coach structure. Since OGS is not the extremely authoritative and "i need to get my way regardless" type(JM), this works well assuming that the supporting roles are competent and their competencies complement each other. If OGS/Phelan/Carrick/McKenna together can simulate some approximation to the "ideal" manager then this can be much more efficient than one single person making decisions, close to regardless of how brilliant this person is. And this is one of the basis elements in modern professional team building theories.
Personally i am happy with OGS as manager for next season IF the coaching staff remains more or less the same. I would not complain about getting Pochettino in, but this would cause major changes with the coaches and set up. And i'm more unsure about what is happening with the "promised" DoF. Will we appoint one, if so should we not get one soon so the planning can begin? Will he be a lap dog for the Glazers/Woodward? Will he want his own guy as manager?
We're seeing the best football since SAF was at the helm and I hope he does get the job. People were saying "what if we lose 10 in a row" when he was named interim manager. But it looks like we're gonna win 10 in a row with Ole instead.. Ole might just be the perfect candidate that has been gifted to us and I hope Ed and the board see it the same way. I personally have been quite impressed with how he's set us up tactically against Spurs and Arsenal. With a DoF and hopefully a HoR in place, I feel Ole will do very well as Manchester United Head Coach..
To paraphrase a certain Denethor, son of Ecthelion... that will depend on the manner of our finishing fourth.
I still think the choice of DoF is more important, if anything. Get the guy who will survive managerial changes and who can therefore give us direction through those changes. That way if Solskjaer continues to get these great results and is kept on, then suffers the all-too-common crash in form as permanent manager, it won't be yet another total false start that takes us back to square one.
I still think the choice of DoF is more important, if anything. Get the guy who will survive managerial changes and who can therefore give us direction through those changes. That way if Solskjaer continues to get these great results and is kept on, then suffers the all-too-common crash in form as permanent manager, it won't be yet another total false start that takes us back to square one.