If we don't win anything this season...

[Murt]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>It's just a matter of opinion - who are you to say it's a stupid question?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Its a one in a long line of stupid questions, you never answered my great question.

 

[Murt]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

Mere exaggeration on your part

Should do - you can read them from my previous postings

Will do - buy a couple of defenders, bring in an assistant, buy a striker and perhaps a keeper.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I want numbers, ive heard you mention at least 4 defenders._______4
A new striker_____1
Keeper____________1
Midfielders_______2
Asst manager
coaches___________2

So thats 8 new players and 3 coaches. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

Stick to the Roy of the Rovers magazines <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

 

[barca1999]

lchk ever the eternal optimist.........

It's getting to the stage where I actually think you are willing United to lose so you can slag them off.

Every single post of yours is complaining about the manager, the players, etc. etc. I don't recall you ever saying anything positive about Manchester United Football Club.

Following United isn't as tiersome as you make out. I actually enjoy watching our "shite" players every week, they are a joy to watch most of the time.

If you really think the current side is so bad then I'd love to know what you would have been saying if this message board had been around in the 80s.

Of course, not everything is right at the moment, but more is right than wrong and players who have won us the league more times than we could have dreamed of (plus some pot called the European cup) do not turn bad overnight and deserve more respect than you are giving them.

But then that's just my humble opinion...

 

[Murt]

Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>If you really think the current side is so bad then I'd love to know what you would have been saying if this message board had been around in the 80s.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Even though the majority of our teams in the 80's were about as good as your average Aston Villa team nowadays it was still great being a Utd fan in the 80's.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Its a one in a long line of stupid questions, you never answered my great question.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Stupid to you, not to me. What are the other so-called stupid questions? It's stupid to you because your narrow-minded self just want to shut out FACTS that we have been standing still for some time now.

Unlike you, I don't go around pretending that everything is bright and sunny.

Objectivity does not make one less of a fan than doing lots of chest-thumping and flag-waving stuff
and proclaiming that "we are the greatest"

Results matter - end of story. We are not getting the right results so grow out of this childish rah-rah stuff, will you?

To answer your "great" question, I still feel that Fergie need to ring changes in the team and coaching staff with additions, releases etc regardless of whether we win or not.

We aim to be stronger, not the reverse.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

I want numbers, ive heard you mention at least 4 defenders._______4
A new striker_____1
Keeper____________1
Midfielders_______2
Asst manager
coaches___________2

So thats 8 new players and 3 coaches. <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

Stick to the Roy of the Rovers magazines <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Exaggerated crap - that's your trait, murt.

I only want four new defenders plus MAYBE a new keeper.

A new striker should be bought only after we have sorted out the defence.

I never mentioned anything about midfielders - you put your own words into that.

One assistant manager would be needed and the backroom staff may have to change - I never mentioned numbers on that area.

So are you saying we don't need to make any changes whatsoever?

Anwer this, naive one.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>lchk ever the eternal optimist.........

It's getting to the stage where I actually think you are willing United to lose so you can slag them off.

Every single post of yours is complaining about the manager, the players, etc. etc. I don't recall you ever saying anything positive about Manchester United Football Club.

Following United isn't as tiersome as you make out. I actually enjoy watching our "shite" players every week, they are a joy to watch most of the time.

If you really think the current side is so bad then I'd love to know what you would have been saying if this message board had been around in the 80s.

Of course, not everything is right at the moment, but more is right than wrong and players who have won us the league more times than we could have dreamed of (plus some pot called the European cup) do not turn bad overnight and deserve more respect than you are giving them.

But then that's just my humble opinion...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not being pessimistic but just being realistic

The 80s were agony especially with the dippers winning them all but at that time, I had lower expectations of us

At least you admit that there are some areas we should improve on

But let's not get sentimental about it - footballers are professionals and if they are not doing the job as it should be, out they go. The club is bigger than any individual.

 

[Red down under]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

Fact is, we haven't been consistently good enough this year, and if we do go on to win it, it will be down to a whole lot of luck!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry mate, we either deserve it or we don't over the full season. Luck doesn't come into it either for us or against us. In the heat of the battle we all think we're unlucky at some time but we have to keep going.

I also think we've not played well enough in enough games this season, especially at the back, but there's a few games to go yet. It ain't over by some way.

At the end of the season SAF will have to have the answers. I'd like to see the defence strengthened but I would also be happy to have a defensive coach appointed to get our present lot up to scratch. Wes has not become a lost cause. O'Shea looks promising too, and with Ronnie seeming to be getting back to fitness it could come good with a bit of coaching. Maybe Blanc should be that coach, there's not much wrong with his footballing brain.

Oh, one other thing, if the defence had performed fantastically against 'boro we'd have drawn 0-0 so we'd be one point better off. There's not much to choose between a draw and a loss really. Don't get me wrong, I hate not winning, but I hate not trying more!

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Red down under:
<strong>

Sorry mate, we either deserve it or we don't over the full season. Luck doesn't come into it either for us or against us. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Luck definitely plays a part in football. If we win the title we will deserve it in some ways because it will mean that other teams have cocked up in the same way as us.

But no-one could say that this has been a season when Manchester United have shown superiority over the rest of the league. No-one in his right mind anyways.

 

[Murt]

Originally posted by lchk:

I

only

want

four new defenders plus MAYBE

a new keeper.

A new striker should be bought

One assistant manager would be needed and the backroom staff may have to change - I never mentioned numbers on that area.

So are you saying we don't need to make any changes whatsoever?
Anwer this, naive one.
<hr></blockquote>

4 defenders
1 Keeper
1 striker
1 assistent manager
Some coaches, dont deny that you said that, ill find the topic if i must.

So i wasnt far wrong, just two midfielders out. 6 new players and 2-3 in the backroom, your still in tellytubbyland im afraid.

Well be fine with 1 defender and 1 striker in my opinion and i cant see Fergie going over that. A strike will come if Yorke leaves and id imagine that a few defenders will be shifted before a new defender is taken on, ie May & Irwin. Going out and buying 4 new defenders would be totally <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> It might work for you in CM but Fergie is playing the real thing

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

4 defenders
1 Keeper
1 striker
1 assistent manager
Some coaches, dont deny that you said that, ill find the topic if i must.

So i wasnt far wrong, just two midfielders out. 6 new players and 2-3 in the backroom, your still in tellytubbyland im afraid.

Well be fine with 1 defender and 1 striker in my opinion and i cant see Fergie going over that. A strike will come if Yorke leaves and id imagine that a few defenders will be shifted before a new defender is taken on, ie May & Irwin. Going out and buying 4 new defenders would be totally <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> It might work for you in CM but Fergie is playing the real thing</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are acting rather idiotically here, aren't you? I merely mentioned that all these changes are an IDEAL situation to me and I most certainly believe that it will not happen.

Stop mixing reality and CM - you are the one who is confused here, not me.

And twisting my words on top of that

4 defenders are first priority
Prefarbly a striker as well
MAYBE a keeper (can you comprehend english? I pressume it's your first language since you say that you are Irish or would you prefer gaelic?)
sorry I don't know a word of gaelic.

1 assistant manager
some changes in the backroom - I did not mention numbers but that's not the point.

I challenge your view of things:

1. Do you think we need an assistant manager or just let Fergie go it alone?

2. With the departures of Irwin and Blanc and probably Wallwork, May and Johnsen don't you think we need to purchase more than one defender? Fergie has already mentioned that he will seek replacements for both Irwin and Blanc when they leave. Are you that confident of our defence holding out the opposition next season unless there are changes made? Imagine O'Shea and Brown two young and relatively inexperienced centre-halfs versus the Owens, Henrys, Hasselbainks, Rauls etc. Perish the thought!

 

[Murt]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>
1. Do you think we need an assistant manager or just let Fergie go it alone?

2. With the departures of Irwin and Blanc and probably Wallwork, May and Johnsen don't you think we need to purchase more than one defender? Fergie has already mentioned that he will seek replacements for both Irwin and Blanc when they leave. Are you that confident of our defence holding out the opposition next season unless there are changes made? Imagine O'Shea and Brown two young and relatively inexperienced centre-halfs versus the Owens, Henrys, Hasselbainks, Rauls etc. Perish the thought!</strong><hr></blockquote>

1) He could bring in a new man or perhaps promote either Choccy or Micky P to assistent or maybe continue with Ryan. Either way well not be needing a "whole new back" room like you suggested in your earlier topic.

2) Wallwork, May & Irwin will more than likely depart this season but how many games have they played, Wallwork played 2 or so, May the same and Irwin has hardly figured since Christmas. Which means that one player could easily replace the three of them. Push some of the reserves a bit higher up in the pecking order to replace them three and all we need is one defender who can seriously challenge for a starting place.
To bring in 4 new defenders like you would have it would be totally <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> . Id be very confident of our defence improving if we took on one decent defender. Look at our record since Christmas since the "whole team" has improved and look at our goals against in Europe.

3) No question 3 but ill continue, Goalkeepers: Who would you have to replace Barthez, the man who has a WC, EC, CL, French title/cup & English title under his belt? Would you like someone like Dudek? Did you see him in the Roma game? He couldnt handle the pressure and dropped a couple of easy crosses. Man Utd need a personality like Barthez in the goal who can handle the big games. You wont get better than Barthez.

4) A striker will only arrive if we can flog Yorke, theirs no way Fergie or the board will pass that nr of strikers.

the problem with your ideas is that you would like 6 new players in our starting 11 next season. That would be a disaster, financially and on the field.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>


4) A striker will only arrive if we can flog Yorke, </strong><hr></blockquote>


I'm sure Jordan will oblige.

 

[Murt]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>
I'm sure Jordan will oblige.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I read somewhere that hes begging her to take him back! Suddenly realised that he has to sort out his life or something.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

1) He could bring in a new man or perhaps promote either Choccy or Micky P to assistent or maybe continue with Ryan. Either way well not be needing a "whole new back" room like you suggested in your earlier topic.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you agree with hiring a new assistant manager, do you not? So why did you slam me on that point earlier?

And I NEVER said anything about a whole new backroom - only some changes or additions to be made. Exaggeration is your middle name, isn't it? Do you know the meaning of the word "precise" and "objective"? Guess not.

<strong>

2) Wallwork, May & Irwin will more than likely depart this season but how many games have they played, Wallwork played 2 or so, May the same and Irwin has hardly figured since Christmas. Which means that one player could easily replace the three of them. Push some of the reserves a bit higher up in the pecking order to replace them three and all we need is one defender who can seriously challenge for a starting place.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

And who are these reserves who can replace Wallwork etc? Are they better than what wallwork, irwin and may are? We are building a squad here, not just a first team. Take the full-back positions for instance. Who in the reserves can step up to replace Irwin? No-one adeqaute enough to do the job is the answer. We are talking about squad players who can challenge the first-teamers for positions, not just raw youngsters to warm the bench.

<strong>

To bring in 4 new defenders like you would have it would be totally <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> . Id be very confident of our defence improving if we took on one decent defender. Look at our record since Christmas since the "whole team" has improved and look at our goals against in Europe.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

And we still conceded goals against the likes of West Ham and Boro not to mention looking shaky on numerous occasions. Why don't you look at the whole season instead of bits and pieces?

I pressume the "decent defender" that you mentioned would be a centre-half. How about the full-back positions? Don't you think those need strengthening? And who would be the other centre-half alongside the new fellow?

<strong>

3) No question 3 but ill continue, Goalkeepers: Who would you have to replace Barthez, the man who has a WC, EC, CL, French title/cup & English title under his belt? Would you like someone like Dudek? Did you see him in the Roma game? He couldnt handle the pressure and dropped a couple of easy crosses. Man Utd need a personality like Barthez in the goal who can handle the big games. You wont get better than Barthez.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am not too concerned about Barthez which is why the keeper position is not on my priority list. But I wouldn't mind a new keeper coming in to challenge barthez for the first-team slot.

Yes, I would prefer Dudek - he is very solid and unflustered even though he plays for the dippers. Unlike you, I can acknowledge the fact that our rivals do have better players than us for certain positions.

Handle the big games? Barthez has dropped clangers in those eg Arsenal 1-3 and Deportivo so what are you talking about?

But that's not often and he certainly is of much less concern than the defence.

<strong>

4) A striker will only arrive if we can flog Yorke, theirs no way Fergie or the board will pass that nr of strikers.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then sell Yorke unless you want to witness a repeat scenario of what happened on Sat against Boro.

<strong>

the problem with your ideas is that you would like 6 new players in our starting 11 next season. That would be a disaster, financially and on the field.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's only a wish list, why are you nitpicky about it? I know it's not going to happen and I did mention that if Fergie bought two defenders for a start, I would be happy. A striker and a keeper would be bonuses. And he has stated recently that he will do just that.

So what's your problem? Can't stand the fact that I want 4 new defenders coming in even though I have repeatedtly stated that this is only MY WISH and it is NOT REALITY. Hope you comprehend this sentence well because I don't like to repeat myself, especially after I have made a clear statement on where I stand on an issue.

 

[Bury Red]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

It's only a wish list, why are you nitpicky about it? I know it's not going to happen and I did mention that if Fergie bought two defenders for a start, I would be happy. A striker and a keeper would be bonuses. And he has stated recently that he will do just that.

So what's your problem? Can't stand the fact that I want 4 new defenders coming in even though I have repeatedtly stated that this is only MY WISH and it is NOT REALITY. Hope you comprehend this sentence well because I don't like to repeat myself, especially after I have made a clear statement on where I stand on an issue.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh shit, I promised myself I wouldn't respond to any more of your drivel but I just have to state the obvious about your comments. So "You know it's not going to happen", tou know it's "NOT REALITY" and these are only your "WISH"es.

If it ain't feckin' real why keep treating us to your vision over and over again, I for one am sick of opening another thread to find it has been populated by the same whining gits as all the other threads stating their wishes and begging for our objectivity for their "unreal" analyses of a given situation. For someone who "Doesn't like to repeat himself" you sure do a feckin' lot of it, if someone doesn't agree with your viepoint the first time restating it over and over is hardly likely to endear you to them, get a new tune or confine it to one thread we can all ignore Ichk, you've become a real bore.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Bury Red:
<strong>

Oh shit, I promised myself I wouldn't respond to any more of your drivel but I just have to state the obvious about your comments. So "You know it's not going to happen", tou know it's "NOT REALITY" and these are only your "WISH"es.

If it ain't feckin' real why keep treating us to your vision over and over again, I for one am sick of opening another thread to find it has been populated by the same whining gits as all the other threads stating their wishes and begging for our objectivity for their "unreal" analyses of a given situation. For someone who "Doesn't like to repeat himself" you sure do a feckin' lot of it, if someone doesn't agree with your viepoint the first time restating it over and over is hardly likely to endear you to them, get a new tune or confine it to one thread we can all ignore Ichk, you've become a real bore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am only responding to murt's posting about my saying that we need 4 new defenders, I never repeated or initiated it again.

Follow the thread before you falsely accuse me again, okay?

 

[Bury Red]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

I am only responding to murt's posting about my saying that we need 4 new defenders, I never repeated or initiated it again.

Follow the thread before you falsely accuse me again, okay?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just because I didn't deign to respond to your drivel previously doesn't mean I failed to follow the thread. Murt doesn't need me to fight his battles for him, I merely chose to point out the hypocrisy of your last post since all you have done for the last few months is repeat the same hackneyed crap. Yes you instigated this post with a pitiful attempt to get like minded whingers to agree with your viewpoint on restructuring the club, but I fail to believe on your recent record that any debate with you would have taken a different route than the inevitable "Itchy's grand transfer plan".

Murt disagreed with this, as I do, stating that whilst we are likely to see replacements for the obvious departures opting for the total reorganisation of staff you and your ilk desire would be utter madness. I for one have attempted to point out the need for a less reactionary approach to our management through reasoned debate, but debate with you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

A trophy free season is not the end of the world, we've come through them unscathed many times before and I for one would prefer not to see the idiocy that overcomes some clubs infect United. The revolving door on the managers office/dressing room and the fans protesting for x out, y in, y out, z in and a new board for afters may be a way of life for some teams but not for us.

United under Fergie have maintained a steady progress and have an even keel and good balance through long serving players, management etc no amount of wind will rock our boat and you're just a little fart. If you have nowt new to say, say nowt.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Bury Red:
<strong>

Just because I didn't deign to respond to your drivel previously doesn't mean I failed to follow the thread. Murt doesn't need me to fight his battles for him, I merely chose to point out the hypocrisy of your last post since all you have done for the last few months is repeat the same hackneyed crap. Yes you instigated this post with a pitiful attempt to get like minded whingers to agree with your viewpoint on restructuring the club, but I fail to believe on your recent record that any debate with you would have taken a different route than the inevitable "Itchy's grand transfer plan".

Murt disagreed with this, as I do, stating that whilst we are likely to see replacements for the obvious departures opting for the total reorganisation of staff you and your ilk desire would be utter madness. I for one have attempted to point out the need for a less reactionary approach to our management through reasoned debate, but debate with you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

A trophy free season is not the end of the world, we've come through them unscathed many times before and I for one would prefer not to see the idiocy that overcomes some clubs infect United. The revolving door on the managers office/dressing room and the fans protesting for x out, y in, y out, z in and a new board for afters may be a way of life for some teams but not for us.

United under Fergie have maintained a steady progress and have an even keel and good balance through long serving players, management etc no amount of wind will rock our boat and you're just a little fart. If you have nowt new to say, say nowt.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Your point of argument was the fact that I kept repeating the "4 defenders" argument, is it not? I replied by stating that I was merely replying to murt who was constantly nitpicking on it.

Facts remain facts, we have problems and we need to solve them. Even you ackowledge that.

I believe changes have to be made and you disagree with me. That's fine but saying that I am a twat, fart etc just shows that you can't stand contrary opinions.

If you want to insult and curse, go ahead if it makes you feel better. Just that arguing objectively is a much better alternative to take.

 

[Bury Red]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

Your point of argument was the fact that I kept repeating the "4 defenders" argument, is it not? I replied by stating that I was merely replying to murt who was constantly nitpicking on it.

Facts remain facts, we have problems and we need to solve them. Even you ackowledge that.

I believe changes have to be made and you disagree with me. That's fine but saying that I am a twat, fart etc just shows that you can't stand contrary opinions.

If you want to insult and curse, go ahead if it makes you feel better. Just that arguing objectively is a much better alternative to take.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not just the 4 defenders thing, the whole tone of your "Oh the sky is falling" posts is depressing in the extreme. My point in discussion with you previusly is that you continually state we have problems we need to do something to which I have pointed out your problem with tenses; we "had" problems and for the most part have performed bloody well in getting over them. You and others choose to perceive current major problems where in reality there are few (that is nit picking btw), I have attempted to discuss this with you and others in the past and always back up my points with incontravertable facts and you have simply restated your original point.

This is not debate, there can be no objective to it when one side is as intransigent as you are. I have attempted to keep my insults low key and good humoured at all times and had better call a halt to this present "debate" before I lose my humour.

To repeat myself for the first and last time, "if you have nowt new to say, say nowt".

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by Bury Red:
<strong>

Not just the 4 defenders thing, the whole tone of your "Oh the sky is falling" posts is depressing in the extreme. My point in discussion with you previusly is that you continually state we have problems we need to do something to which I have pointed out your problem with tenses; we "had" problems and for the most part have performed bloody well in getting over them. You and others choose to perceive current major problems where in reality there are few (that is nit picking btw), I have attempted to discuss this with you and others in the past and always back up my points with incontravertable facts and you have simply restated your original point.

This is not debate, there can be no objective to it when one side is as intransigent as you are. I have attempted to keep my insults low key and good humoured at all times and had better call a halt to this present "debate" before I lose my humour.

To repeat myself for the first and last time, "if you have nowt new to say, say nowt".</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you looked at the beginning of this thread, I asked for the opinion of red cafe members of what they think fergie would do if we finished with nothing this season. When was I bleating about doom and gloom scenarios?

The difference in your opinion and mine is the way we perceive the size of the problem. That's fine and I accept that so what gives you the right to ask people to shut up just because he or she wrote something you didn't like to read or agree with?

Yes, I have stopped mentioning about us needing to buy new defenders and am only replying to posters like murt who bring up the subject. I hope you have seen me take that stance.

Don't lose your temper over this, it's not worth it.

 

[scoreboardpaddock]

bury red= a legend