If not Skinner - then who?

jojojo

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At the suggestion of @AmarilloMike

Last season, the cafe voted 90% in favour of getting rid of Marc Skinner. I'm not sure he's picked up many new votes of confidence since then. However it is worth us taking a look at whether there's anyone out there who might do a better job.

Your thoughts and theories please.
 
Can we persuade Casey to come back under the new management? Or has that ship passed? What is she even up to these days?
 
Blzbud said:
Can we persuade Casey to come back under the new management? Or has that ship passed? What is she even up to these days?
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She's not under contract to anyone at the moment. I keep seeing rumours linking her to Arsenal but I think that's inevitable based on her history as a player and the fact that she is available. I don't think they're driven by more than speculation though.

In terms of what she'd bring to us - defensive solidity (particularly key against big teams) and team/squad spirit. Players liked playing for her.

Would she want to come back? If she thought she could win trophies with us then maybe.
 
I remember at one point Carla Ward been suggested for a step up to a top job at some point. But then, her Villa side plummeted down the table and she found herself unemployed.

I've often wondered if Ole Gunnar Solskjaer would be a worthy left-field appointment?
 
AmarilloMike said:
I remember at one point Carla Ward been suggested for a step up to a top job at some point. But then, her Villa side plummeted down the table and she found herself unemployed.

I've often wondered if Ole Gunnar Solskjaer would be a worthy left-field appointment?
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The villa team recovered as the season went on but never quite got that first season buzz back.

It was interesting reading her talk about why she was resigning from Villa last season. Her daughter's four now and at school. That meant she was old enough to realise that her mum was seldom home at the weekend and that she kept missing things like the school fete.
 
jojojo said:
Her daughter's four now and at school. That meant she was old enough to realise that her mum was seldom home at the weekend and that she kept missing things like the school fete.
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A particularly interesting point given the ongoing conversations about the lack of female managers in the women's game.
 
Vault Dweller said:
Seeing a few comments online about the fans turning on Sunday, and Skinner digging players out too. Do we think a change could be made soon?
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I don't think many fans turned on Sunday (remember the vote on here was 90% in favour of him going) but the negative buzz is getting louder.

I think when Ineos extended his contract in the summer, it was always a "kick the can down the road" decision rather than a vote of confidence. Given the sheer volume of change happening around the men's team at the moment I doubt they'll want to take on any more work mid-season.

That said, I also doubt he'll be in charge next season. It would take a big change in our performance on the field and the apparent mood of the squad to make another renewal sounds like a good option or even a good kick the can option.

The one caveat I'll add is that they may already have a next manager in mind. In which case it's worth noting that the US league and the Norwegian League for example (aka where Martin Ho is!) finish their seasons this month.

If they do have a plan in mind, involving a manager from one of those countries - maybe we'll see someone new in charge after Christmas. Otherwise - I doubt it.
 
AmarilloMike said:
A particularly interesting point given the ongoing conversations about the lack of female managers in the women's game.
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I think we get used to admiring the hyper-committed managers of the men's pro game, the "first one at the training ground, last one to leave." The pay at the top of the men's game is great of course, but the hours and the lack of control over the schedule leaves little space for normal family life.

Now compound the kind of professional league pressure that is entering the women's game with what are generally not great wages. The league season contains fewer matches but managers frequently have less help around them. They'll also often be on the frontline of arguments about training ground resources, travel expenses, medical access and all those other bits and pieces that go on behind the scenes.

Finally throw in the fact that they are still mummies as well as managers. Equality is vital but the burdens and the emotions around parenthood seldom means that equality = same.
 
jojojo said:
I don't think many fans turned on Sunday (remember the vote on here was 90% in favour of him going) but the negative buzz is getting louder.

I think when Ineos extended his contract in the summer, it was always a "kick the can down the road" decision rather than a vote of confidence. Given the sheer volume of change happening around the men's team at the moment I doubt they'll want to take on any more work mid-season.

That said, I also doubt he'll be in charge next season. It would take a big change in our performance on the field and the apparent mood of the squad to make another renewal sounds like a good option or even a good kick the can option.

The one caveat I'll add is that they may already have a next manager in mind. In which case it's worth noting that the US league and the Norwegian League for example (aka where Martin Ho is!) finish their seasons this month.

If they do have a plan in mind, involving a manager from one of those countries - maybe we'll see someone new in charge after Christmas. Otherwise - I doubt it.
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Thanks for the response! I have been trying to keep up more this season with the women's team, seemed like a good start but petered out a wee bit? First half on Sunday I thought was poor but better second half.

All things being equal, who would you like to see as manager / head coach?
 
Vault Dweller said:
Thanks for the response! I have been trying to keep up more this season with the women's team, seemed like a good start but petered out a wee bit? First half on Sunday I thought was poor but better second half.

All things being equal, who would you like to see as manager / head coach?
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We played some really good half hours in the matches early in the season. We also scored goals, good goals! The switch to Phallon Tullis-Joyce went well. Bizet and Terland hit the ground running. But it was good football in bursts and good players doing what good players do. Fast forward and it just feels like reality has caught up.

You're right to say we were better in the second half. But this time the match stats do tell the story - 40% possession, 1 shot on target (v 4 for Villa), 10 touches in the box (v 27). For a team that according to Skinner prizes possession and wants to attack - that's pathetic.

Like a lot of United women's team fans I'm United first and can't claim to notice much about other women's team managers :lol: So I'm blinkered and automatically put our oldies like Casey Stoney and Martin Ho on the shortlist - but I also see the problems with them. Does casting the net wider let us bring in managers who've won trophies or shown other attributes like bringing through young players or integrating new signings.

Like I say, maybe not an easy recruitment job, particularly mid-season, but I reckon it's a necessary one for the team to grow.
 
Is Casey still living in the US?

Would be nice to see her back but I'm sure she'd want a thorough plan with the new board and with so much going on I'd doubt she'd be satisfied with the talks unless other jobs don't happen in the meantime

Sounds like she did well with San Diego Wave but one bad spell and she's sacked.
 
jojojo said:
We played some really good half hours in the matches early in the season. We also scored goals, good goals! The switch to Phallon Tullis-Joyce went well. Bizet and Terland hit the ground running. But it was good football in bursts and good players doing what good players do. Fast forward and it just feels like reality has caught up.

You're right to say we were better in the second half. But this time the match stats do tell the story - 40% possession, 1 shot on target (v 4 for Villa), 10 touches in the box (v 27). For a team that according to Skinner prizes possession and wants to attack - that's pathetic.

Like a lot of United women's team fans I'm United first and can't claim to notice much about other women's team managers :lol: So I'm blinkered and automatically put our oldies like Casey Stoney and Martin Ho on the shortlist - but I also see the problems with them. Does casting the net wider let us bring in managers who've won trophies or shown other attributes like bringing through young players or integrating new signings.

Like I say, maybe not an easy recruitment job, particularly mid-season, but I reckon it's a necessary one for the team to grow.
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Martin Ho has done well with Brann internationally
 
redshaw said:
Is Casey still living in the US?

Would be nice to see her back but I'm sure she'd want a thorough plan with the new board and with so much going on I'd doubt she'd be satisfied with the talks unless other jobs don't happen in the meantime

Sounds like she did well with San Diego Wave but one bad spell and she's sacked.
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I think Casey's sacking from Wave wasn't just
about results. There was a definite falling out between her and Jill Ellis (former USWNT manager, now President of SD wave) in her last season. Their results got worse after Casey left.

I'm not sure if she has officially moved back to England now, she's certainly been over here a lot.
 
Is Jonas Eidevall worth talking about? I think he'd be a significant upgrade on Skinner (hell, I think I would be too!), Jonas definitely has the experience of top three competition, even if he never quite took Arsenal to the heights their history demands - how much of his 'failure' is down to him and how much is simply down to Chelsea existing?
 
AmarilloMike said:
Is Jonas Eidevall worth talking about? I think he'd be a significant upgrade on Skinner (hell, I think I would be too!), Jonas definitely has the experience of top three competition, even if he never quite took Arsenal to the heights their history demands - how much of his 'failure' is down to him and how much is simply down to Chelsea existing?
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No, thank you.

 
AmarilloMike said:
Like it, succinct and to the point! Just trying to think of unemployed people!
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Sorry didn’t mean to sound rude. At least towards you. Towards Jonas, yes.

I really hope the club has good enough inside knowledge of the industry, so it could well be a name most of us have not even heard of.
 
Given his work at Brighton did very much involve the women's side, I hope Dan Ashworth has that knowledge. He's the only one of the new structure to show up at LSV so far, and to be fair he is fundamentally the most important one to do so.
 
jojojo said:
I don't think many fans turned on Sunday (remember the vote on here was 90% in favour of him going) but the negative buzz is getting louder.

I think when Ineos extended his contract in the summer, it was always a "kick the can down the road" decision rather than a vote of confidence. Given the sheer volume of change happening around the men's team at the moment I doubt they'll want to take on any more work mid-season.

That said, I also doubt he'll be in charge next season. It would take a big change in our performance on the field and the apparent mood of the squad to make another renewal sounds like a good option or even a good kick the can option.

The one caveat I'll add is that they may already have a next manager in mind. In which case it's worth noting that the US league and the Norwegian League for example (aka where Martin Ho is!) finish their seasons this month.

If they do have a plan in mind, involving a manager from one of those countries - maybe we'll see someone new in charge after Christmas. Otherwise - I doubt it.
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My knowledge of others is limited so I'll be happy with Ho. Would also be nice to hear some news on the new head of women's football, but that'll be a next summer job you'd think.
 
Got to be Casey Stoney - that she's out of work makes it easy

I reckon she would come on the promise of completing her 'unfinished business' under the new regime

But Skinner isn't anywhere near being sacked at the moment so quite likely she gets another job offer before we are ready for her
 
Casey Stoney and Martin Ho should certainly be thought about. Eidevall is a definite no. Solskjaer was mentioned earlier, but I think that has more to do with sentimental attachment to United, that his daughter was with us, and that he is a free agent rather than his suitability for the job.

I'd like to suggest Jonatan Giráldez. Domestic treble with Barcelona in his first season, treble including CL in his second, quadruple in his third. Not too shabby. He is just about to finish his first season with Washington Spirit, and I'm sure his money there would be huge, but we need to show some ambition. Against the odds we got Amorim, so why not?
 
AmarilloMike said:
Is Jonas Eidevall worth talking about? I think he'd be a significant upgrade on Skinner (hell, I think I would be too!), Jonas definitely has the experience of top three competition, even if he never quite took Arsenal to the heights their history demands - how much of his 'failure' is down to him and how much is simply down to Chelsea existing?
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I’ve seen quite a lot of Arsenal over the last couple of seasons as I live close to the Emirates and join Arsenal mates at their games .

Eidevall is a definite no from me. He has under-achieved with that squad and it was clear especially towards the end that he’d lost the dressing room.
 
jojojo said:
We played some really good half hours in the matches early in the season. We also scored goals, good goals! The switch to Phallon Tullis-Joyce went well. Bizet and Terland hit the ground running. But it was good football in bursts and good players doing what good players do. Fast forward and it just feels like reality has caught up.

You're right to say we were better in the second half. But this time the match stats do tell the story - 40% possession, 1 shot on target (v 4 for Villa), 10 touches in the box (v 27). For a team that according to Skinner prizes possession and wants to attack - that's pathetic.

Like a lot of United women's team fans I'm United first and can't claim to notice much about other women's team managers :lol: So I'm blinkered and automatically put our oldies like Casey Stoney and Martin Ho on the shortlist - but I also see the problems with them. Does casting the net wider let us bring in managers who've won trophies or shown other attributes like bringing through young players or integrating new signings.

Like I say, maybe not an easy recruitment job, particularly mid-season, but I reckon it's a necessary one for the team to grow.
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Yeah that's not good enough and need to be retaining the ball a lot more. Also think sometimes we look for the extra pass instead of taking a chance and shooting. On Sunday I think Clifton hit an absolute cracker that went just wide, I'd like to see more of that. But I am a sucker for a long ranger :lol:

I think so too, that it may be necessary. It might also make sense to follow the same pattern as the men's side, bring someone in now/soon, and they have the rest of the season to see what they can do and implement a new way of playing, and build from there.

Additional note - I have a real soft spot for Gabby George and Le Tiss. I enjoy watching them.
 
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SKIIIIIIINNNNNER
 
Vault Dweller said:
Yeah that's not good enough and need to be retaining the ball a lot more. Also think sometimes we look for the extra pass instead of taking a chance and shooting. On Sunday I think Clifton hit an absolute cracker that went just wide, I'd like to see more of that. But I am a sucker for a long ranger :lol:

I think so too, that it may be necessary. It might also make sense to follow the same pattern as the men's side, bring someone in now/soon, and they have the rest of the season to see what they can do and implement a new way of playing, and build from there.

Additional note - I have a real soft spot for Gabby George and Le Tiss. I enjoy watching them.
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I'm no apologist for Skinner, but let me play devil's advocate for the moment. (1) This is the second consecutive year that he's started the season after losing numerous key players, and it's going to take some time to integrate the new players and figure out how to get the most of them. (2) After 6 games we are one of only three undefeated teams in the league, along with Chelsea and City, and have the best goals-against record in the league. (Granted that everyone but Chelsea have played one game more than we have, but still....) Like everyone else I have been disappointed with what we've often seen on the field so far, but in light of the above facts it seems premature to be talking about firing him. No?
 
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Lobster11 said:
I'm no apologist for Skinner, but let me play devil's advocate for the moment. (1) This is the second consecutive year that he's started the season after losing numerous key players, and it's going to take some time to integrate the new players and figure out how to get the most of them. (2) After 6 games we are one of only three undefeated teams in the league, along with Chelsea and City, and have the best goals-against record in the league. (Granted that everyone but Chelsea have played one game more than we have, but still....) Like everyone else I have been disappointed with what we've often seen on the field so far, but in light of the above facts it seems premature to be talking about firing him. No?
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Unless he's part of the reason we lose key players and will keep losing key players? If the behind the scenes gossip is accurate (and it's certainly consistent with what we see in public) - his players don't see him as the way forward.

Irene last season was just the latest in a string of top international players who came and went without even making a dent. Hinata may be heading in the same direction this season.

Though I hate giving clicks to the Daily Mail:
Ian Wright slams Man United for 'not caring enough' about women's team https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...tml?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton
Is worth a read.

That's mostly based on this:
 
Lobster11 said:
I'm no apologist for Skinner, but let me play devil's advocate for the moment. (1) This is the second consecutive year that he's started the season after losing numerous key players, and it's going to take some time to integrate the new players and figure out how to get the most of them. (2) After 6 games we are one of only three undefeated teams in the league, along with Chelsea and City, and have the best goals-against record in the league. (Granted that everyone but Chelsea have played one game more than we have, but still....) Like everyone else I have been disappointed with what we've often seen on the field so far, but in light of the above facts it seems premature to be talking about firing him. No?
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If it was a new head coach with this record in their first season, I’d accept it. The performances less so, but I’d be willing to give them time.

We were absolute shite last season. We finished 15(!) points behind Arsenal in 3rd place. Six points behind Liverpool in 4th.

Our record in the league against the top 4 last season:

P8 W0 D1 L7 GS7 GC22

Abysmal stuff. It’s not just this season.

Part of the reason we lose our best players is the coach himself. Apart from Rachel Williams he doesn’t seem to have a strong relationship with any of our players. He’s had a poor one with plenty of them. Not once have I heard any player say something positive about Skinner.
 
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jojojo said:
Unless he's part of the reason we lose key players and will keep losing key players? If the behind the scenes gossip is accurate (and it's certainly consistent with what we see in public) - his players don't see him as the way forward.
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top1whoisman said:
Part of the reason we lose our best players is the coach himself. Apart from Rachel Williams he doesn’t seem to have a strong relationship with any of our players. He’s had a poor one with plenty of them. Not once have I heard any player say something positive about Skinner.
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Well, if the players don't trust him or want to play for him, even this devil's advocate says sack him today. But apart from rumors and inference, we don't really know how the players feeling about Skinner, and I wonder whether whatever problem players might have (or had) are more about the organization -- especially the people who write the checks -- rather than about Skinner himself. It seems clear that players like Russo and Earps moved on to teams that they perceived to be more committed to winning trophies than United; they seem to have seen the writing on the wall. How much was Skinner involved in these negotiations, or part of these players' perceptions that United weren't fully committed to the women's team? I have no way of knowing, but that Daily Mail piece (and others like it) makes me wonder whether the fundamental problem is actually Skinner or those above him in the organization. If the latter, then firing Skinner won't solve anything.
 
Lobster11 said:
Well, if the players don't trust him or want to play for him, even this devil's advocate says sack him today. But apart from rumors and inference, we don't really know how the players feeling about Skinner, and I wonder whether whatever problem players might have (or had) are more about the organization -- especially the people who write the checks -- rather than about Skinner himself. It seems clear that players like Russo and Earps moved on to teams that they perceived to be more committed to winning trophies than United; they seem to have seen the writing on the wall. How much was Skinner involved in these negotiations, or part of these players' perceptions that United weren't fully committed to the women's team? I have no way of knowing, but that Daily Mail piece (and others like it) makes me wonder whether the fundamental problem is actually Skinner or those above him in the organization. If the latter, then firing Skinner won't solve anything.
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The problem has definitely partly been the club as well. Still sacking Skinner and hiring a more competent manager would naturally improve us. Doesn’t make sense to not do anything just because we can’t fix the whole problem.
 
Think it's highly unlikely but could that Nick Cushing be lured back from the US with the right project
 
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