If not Ramos or Otamendi.....Then Which CB?

starman said:
I would say he is better than Rojo. Rojo is not "top class". Smalling is getting there. Jones might get there. Evans on his day is better....? and what about on Vlaar's day?

And hes a free transfer, a stop gap, and will probably be back for Nov, maybe earlier if we rehabilitate him. And the point has been entirely missed with buying Stones and loaning him back...
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Evans had a really good run for us that was better than anything Vlaar has produced IMO, but both are no longer players that should be wearing a United shirt.

This is the same thinking as those that thought it was OK to bring in De Jong, I think LvG has made it clear that if he can't get quality he'll use what he has, whether that's Blind used as a CB or McNair getting more chances. I did see the Stones point but that type of deal only happens in certain circumstances, Stones is PL proven and will cost £30M, there's no way we'd let him go back to Everton on loan if we valued him high enough to pay that.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Absolutely man. Sure both have said we'll only buy players that will improve the team / squad - common-sense though..
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Yes, everything is forward motion at the club, I don't think mid table aging stop-gaps are on the menu, LvG has pretty much said he wants Fillet Steak with all the trimmings, he won't be shoving a battered Big Mac slathered in god knows what by some pimply college kid, in his belly.
 
starman said:
I would say he is better than Rojo. Rojo is not "top class". Smalling is getting there. Jones might get there. Evans on his day is better....? and what about on Vlaar's day?

And hes a free transfer, a stop gap, and will probably be back for Nov, maybe earlier if we rehabilitate him. And the point has been entirely missed with buying Stones and loaning him back...
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So if we have a pile of injuries we will then call on Concrete Ron Vlaar who is also injured and injured more often than any of our injury prone players?
 
Hemil said:
Why this sudden love for Stones by United fans? I thought Jones, Smalling and Evans were the rightful successors to Vidic and Rio and were going to rule EPL for years to come. Why try the same formula again when the previous one failed?
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Why do Chelsea want Stones?

Same reason mate - he's class & will be world class in a few years too..
 
DomesticTadpole said:
So if we have a pile of injuries we will then call on Concrete Ron Vlaar who is also injured and injured more often than any of our injury prone players?
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Well its either bring in a world class player, who will go straight into first team. Who's that gonna be?

Or have a extra body on free, on a pay as you play deal.
 
Hemil said:
Why this sudden love for Stones by United fans? I thought Jones, Smalling and Evans were the rightful successors to Vidic and Rio and were going to rule EPL for years to come. Why try the same formula again when the previous one failed?
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What formula are you on about? So United shouldn't sign a young English defender because the last two they signed haven't turned into Rio and Vidic yet?
 
J-Stander said:
What formula are you on about? So United shouldn't sign a young English defender because the last two they signed haven't turned into Rio and Vidic yet?
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Yes. It won't help you in anyway. You need leaders first and not more youngsters to pile on the problems you have been facing the last season. Imagine playing a Shaw-Stones-Smalling-Darmian defense. There will no leadership at all and the GK will have to save a lot.
 
Devil may care said:
Evans had a really good run for us that was better than anything Vlaar has produced IMO, but both are no longer players that should be wearing a United shirt.

This is the same thinking as those that thought it was OK to bring in De Jong, I think LvG has made it clear that if he can't get quality he'll use what he has, whether that's Blind used as a CB or McNair getting more chances. I did see the Stones point but that type of deal only happens in certain circumstances, Stones is PL proven and will cost £30M, there's no way we'd let him go back to Everton on loan if we valued him high enough to pay that.
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3 years ago. Vlaar was the main reason Villa stayed up two years ago. Had a really good world cup and was solid last year for the games he played. Evans has been awful for a long time.
The whole point of me even suggesting Vlaar, is for the extra body and until we can pick someone like Stones who could partner Smalling for many years to come. That points been lost.
 
starman said:
3 years ago. Vlaar was the main reason Villa stayed up two years ago. Had a really good world cup and was solid last year for the games he played. Evans has been awful for a long time.
The whole point of me even suggesting Vlaar, is for the extra body and until we can pick someone like Stones who could partner Smalling for many years to come. That points been lost.
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It wasn't lost, I just said the buy and loan back idea is highly unlikely, and I also think rather than bring in a mediocre crock, LvG would use Blind and McNair as the extra body.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
I wouldnt say Evans is better - even on his birthday. Agree with the other's though.

No way United are gonna bring in a player, in a much needed position, that's injured until atleast Nov - maybe 2016 even. It would be madness man & would show a serious flaw in our transfer thinking - which we dont seem to have i might add..
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The point is who is available that is going to go straight into the first team, i am not saying Vlaar is, and its all very well saying we need to get a World class defender, but there is so little around. But we need another defender, thats for sure.
 
Hemil said:
Why this sudden love for Stones by United fans? I thought Jones, Smalling and Evans were the rightful successors to Vidic and Rio and were going to rule EPL for years to come. Why try the same formula again when the previous one failed?
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Yeh I'm worried about this :(. Though I would like to think that stones is a notch above, when Jones arrived he was meant to also be top quality and that hasn't shown so I'm not convinced that this is the correct timing for us especially as we really need an experienced head.
 
Devil may care said:
It wasn't lost, I just said the buy and loan back idea is highly unlikely, and I also think rather than bring in a mediocre crock, LvG would use Blind and McNair as the extra body.
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Whatever the best possible deal that is presented to Everton is likely. Need another defender beyond them two
 
Blind & Carrick will play at centre back. I think we were in the market for a top class defender - Ramos, Hummels, Varane, maybe a few others, but if they're unattainable, I'm not sure we'll sign one. I can see Evans leaving and I'd love to replace him with Stones, but it seems difficult to see happening.

Smalling/Jones/McNair/Carrick for RCB spot
Rojo/Jones/Blind/Blackett for LCB spot.

I'd say our first choice partnership should be Smalling and Jones, as Van Gaal played against Liverpool last season when he could have played Rojo. However, I can't see Van Gaal letting his obsession with a left footed player go, so maybe Rojo gets the nod. Chances are, Smalling and Jones will pick up injuries, but we've got back up there. I just don't want to rely on McNair and particularly Blackett - positionaly he's all over the place, so Stones would be a great buy. I'd rather sign Stones and let the other youngsters go out on loan.

Smalling/Jones/Rojo/Stones looks great but unlikely
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Why do Chelsea want Stones?

Same reason mate - he's class & will be world class in a few years too..
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I do really rate stones and would like him at Utd but I'm not sure you can say he will be world class at this point considering Jones was meant to be superb when we signed him and yet hasn't pushed on. More importantly tho, I'm just not sure the timing of the deal is right for us like it is for Chelsea. They need to replace an ageing Terry with some young blood whereas we really need a leader at the back first and foremost which is at this moment not Stones unfortunately.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
Yeh I'm worried about this :(. Though I would like to think that stones is a notch above, when Jones arrived he was meant to also be top quality and that hasn't shown so I'm not convinced that this is the correct timing for us especially as we really need an experienced head.
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Jones has been hampered by injury, as has Smalling. We've all seen the improvement in the latter after a decent spell in the side, so I've no doubt that Jones can step up as well. They just need to stay injury free, that's the problem.
 
Evans bashing on the site is a bit OTT. I understand that everyone wants to see a much better caliber of defender enter the fray and his spot is the easiest one to take, but hes a very good defender and has proven this multiple times. Fitness and consistency is his issue. Hes not "shit" and certainly is better than Stones at the moment. Its just his mistakes get Highlighted much more because of the club he plays for. Dont think the treatment he gets is fair.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
Jones has been hampered by injury, as has Smalling. We've all seen the improvement in the latter after a decent spell in the side, so I've no doubt that Jones can step up as well. They just need to stay injury free, that's the problem.
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I really hope you are right and I agree that Smalling has massively improved last season however, I'm just not sure whether Jones has the right mentality to succeed here. He's still very reckless and hasn't really shown much improvement over the last few seasons but he does still have age on his side so perhaps that will all change.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
I really hope you are right and I agree that Smalling has massively improved last season however, I'm just not sure whether Jones has the right mentality to succeed here. He's still very reckless and hasn't really shown much improvement over the last few seasons but he does still have age on his side so perhaps that will all change.
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Worth keeping for his bravery and determination alone. Only John Terry defends like this.

 
Devil may care said:
Evans had a really good run for us that was better than anything Vlaar has produced IMO, but both are no longer players that should be wearing a United shirt.
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The Ron Vlaar that was acknowledged as one of the best defenders in the last World Cup?
 
starman said:
Whatever the best possible deal that is presented to Everton is likely. Need another defender beyond them two
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It's not what Everton want that would be the issue IMO, I don't see United stumping up £30M on Stones and then loaning him back. We need a defender on top of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Blind and McNair? Even if it's just a body as opposed to an actual top CB?
 
ChaddyP said:
Evans bashing on the site is a bit OTT. I understand that everyone wants to see a much better caliber of defender enter the fray and his spot is the easiest one to take, but hes a very good defender and has proven this multiple times. Fitness and consistency is his issue. Hes not "shit" and certainly is better than Stones at the moment. Its just his mistakes get Highlighted much more because of the club he plays for. Dont think the treatment he gets is fair.
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No he gets pretty much what he deserves to be honest. I was one of Evans biggest fans about two seasons ago when vidic and Rio were still playing and I thought he brought quality and composure to the defence with his play. That being said he has always struggled with his physical attributes and has often been out-muscled by powerful players e.g Benteke last season as a recent example. He is also not the quickest which means he is unable to make up for his mistakes and those mistakes have been much more common recently.

Even his biggest strength which was on the ball has now faded and every time he gets the ball he looks like a rabbit in the headlights and very often then gives the ball away in dangerous positions. I think the time I really lost faith in him was when Rio and vidic retired and it was then left to Evans to try and step up to the challenge. I understand that these are hard shoes to fill but Evans bottled this both in Moyes season and last year when his performances were poor and certainly the weakest of all our defenders (even McNair put in some performances that were better). Overall this leads me to think that Evans who is no longer a youngster at 27 and who should now be a regular, experienced pro that the team desperately needs, is just not up to the quality that Utd need to truly push on and progress. For this reason it's fair for people (like myself) to expect far more form Evans and therefore criticise his performances. I think it would be best for all parties that Evans moves on and hopefully he can rekindle the quality he showed in his early years because he has always come over as a top bloke and a sound professional.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
No he gets pretty much what he deserves to be honest. I was one of Evans biggest fans about two seasons ago when vidic and Rio were still playing and I thought he brought quality and composure to the defence with his play. That being said he has always struggled with his physical attributes and has often been out-muscled by powerful players e.g Benteke last season as a recent example. He is also not the quickest which means he is unable to make up for his mistakes and those mistakes have been much more common recently.

Even his biggest strength which was on the ball has now faded and every time he gets the ball he looks like a rabbit in the headlights and very often then gives the ball away in dangerous positions. I think the time I really lost faith in him was when Rio and vidic retired and it was then left to Evans to try and step up to the challenge. I understand that these are hard shoes to fill but Evans bottled this both in Moyes season and last year when his performances were poor and certainly the weakest of all our defenders (even McNair put in some performances that were better). Overall this leads me to think that Evans who is no longer a youngster at 27 and who should now be a regular, experienced pro that the team desperately needs, is just not up to the quality that Utd need to truly push on and progress. For this reason it's fair for people (like myself) to expect far more form Evans and therefore criticise his performances. I think it would be best for all parties that Evans moves on and hopefully he can rekindle the quality he showed in his early years because he has always come over as a top bloke and a sound professional.
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so because he hasn't lived up to expectations and probably slightly regressed means hes shit and worse than {insert any random center back here} ? I agree that he should be sold and we should be looking for much better than him. But surely he isn't as awful as most in here make him out to be?
 
We need a ball playing center half, someone to finally replace Rio in our set up. Vidic has already been replaced by Smalling and I'm pretty sure everyone is happy by his contribution. I'd say we should seriously be looking at Stones as out of the young defenders around, he's the most that resembles Rio. Other option would then be Marquinhos. If we're looking for experience then I reckon a stab at Thiago Silva wouldn't be the worst thing ever.
 
ChaddyP said:
so because he hasn't lived up to expectations and probably slightly regressed means hes shit and worse than {insert any random center back here} ? I agree that he should be sold and we should be looking for much better than him. But surely he isn't as awful as most in here make him out to be?
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I think your right in that regard. The fact that people are saying Vlaar is better shows just how much Utd fans have forgotten what a top class player Evans was a few years ago. I'm just disappointed he never kicked on and I think many people also feel like this, but you know what the caf is like once your considered surpluses to requirements you labelled as terrible when the reality is often they are good players just not absolute top quality.
 
Devil may care said:
It's not what Everton want that would be the issue IMO, I don't see United stumping up £30M on Stones and then loaning him back. We need a defender on top of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Blind and McNair? Even if it's just a body as opposed to an actual top CB?
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Yes, what's the point of this thread if we didn't? we were down to the bare bone last season and are probably going to lose Raf. Blind is untested and is more likely to be a cover for Shaw and McNair for Darmian.
It's all very well saying we need a top CB, but who is that? who is obtainable? Sure would prefer Ramos or Godin, but little chance of getting them. Vlaar would be the 3rd best CB and has great organisational skills something greatly missing in our defence.
 
starman said:
Yes, what's the point of this thread if we didn't? we were down to the bare bone last season and are probably going to lose Raf. Blind is untested and is more likely to be a cover for Shaw and McNair for Darmian.
It's all very well saying we need a top CB, but who is that? who is obtainable? Sure would prefer Ramos or Godin, but little chance of getting them. Vlaar would be the 3rd best CB and has great organisational skills something greatly missing in our defence.
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The point of the thread was to try and suggest some other good candidates that we could go for, if you genuinely feel Vlaar is a good choice then fair enough, I just think he'd be a complete waste of time as he's injured, injury prone and not all that good, to me there is a big gap between Ramos and Vlaar, I am certain there are options in between like Stones, Laporte, Garay, Dragovic and Schar.
 
Dante said:
Jones headed the ball onto Giroud's shin. It was brilliant defending. If it had been pretty much any other defender in world football, Arsenal would have scored. But yeah... let's laugh instead.
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No I actually don't doubt it was good defending, but you have to admit it was funny. I'm not sure I've ever laughed so hard mid match as when Gary Neville was saying he was doing front crawl, breaststroke haha really did have me in tears :lol:
 
If we spaff off all this money and an organising, thinking CB is not among the purchases, it is going to be another frustrating season.

We have to be solid at the back.
 
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