ICC Cricket World Cup 2011

crappycraperson said:
Somehow Hussey vs Steyn does not have the same ring as Waugh vs Ambrose.
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Did you see the spell Steyn bowled against us in SA recently?

It was unreal.

Far more exciting than anything Mcgrath could produce with his line and length bowling.

Steyne vs Sehwag sounds fantastic to me, conditions being right for it of course. I know what you guys mean but it's not universally applicable.
 
Yeah Steyn vs Sachin in the recent series was one for the classic. Sachin belongs to the last generation though. Sehwag one won't be a classic because he will only last against him on flat pitches. Sehwag is yet to prove himself out side subcontinent.
 
crappycraperson said:
Yeah Steyn vs Sachin in the recent series was one for the classic. Sachin belongs to the last generation though. Sehwag one won't be a classic because he will only last against him on flat pitches. Sehwag is yet to prove himself out side subcontinent.
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Fair enough. I generally do agree but I'd just say that lets wait before forming a judgement on the upcoming lot. Look at Yuvraj's growth in this tournament alone, he's suddenly looking like a beast of a player who seems to have matured. I think there will be fewer players of that level but maybe there will be a few.
 
I'd also like to add that with this World Cup, I feel like my time as a supporter of Indian cricket has come full circle. From a team that could only win at home and got walloped anywhere else, today we are a fearless cricket team that can compete on every front and is at the moment the very best. An Indian team that fights to the death and has nerves of steel like this one is something so alien to me. We've consistently gotten better, done ourselves proud away from home in test cricket, got the no.1 spot and finally won the World Cup.

And it was so apt to see Sachin win it because THAT is the generation of Indian cricket that I will hold dearest to me. Hopefully we keep getting better and dominate the game, but that generation will be always be special for me. So it's nice to see that generation come to an end (almost) with a World Cup win.
 
I'm tempted to search for Sehwags record in Australia, NZ, WI and Safrica, but it's too much effort. Somehow I doubt anything crappy said is even remotely true.

And Taurean hit the nail on the head when he mentioned his childhood.My Dad used to keep going back to the days of Holding, Marshall and Lillee. As we grow older the charm disappears from this game and the players we idolised. SRT's responsible for me retaining my last traces at the moment.
 
Sehwag has got an average of 60 in Australia, 40 in England and 50 in WI(20 and 25 in NZ and SA Respectively though). It's harsh to say that he hasn't proven himself outside the sub continent. His 195 against Australia in MCG on the first day of the boxing test is still one of the best test match innings I've ever seen by an Indian.
 
Btw am I the only who isn't at all interested in this year's IPL. After this WC, I just can't see myself immersing in T20 Cricket for two months, and I reckon that will be the case for many more Indians.
 
KM said:
Btw am I the only who isn't at all interested in this year's IPL. After this WC, I just can't see myself immersing in T20 Cricket for two months, and I reckon that will be the case for many more Indians.
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No, you're not alone. I couldn't give a toss. It's like worrying about the Community Shield after you've won the Champions League
 
Yeah, it's fecking shit timing as well. I hate the tournament anyway.

Who gives a flying feck about Delhi beating Chennai!?

Although any opportunity to watch Sachin is one to savor with the clock ticking.
 
KM said:
Btw am I the only who isn't at all interested in this year's IPL. After this WC, I just can't see myself immersing in T20 Cricket for two months, and I reckon that will be the case for many more Indians.
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Agreed, I feel the same way. Especially after so many of the teams have been changed around completely as well.

Kings XI Punjab are my team and the side is unrecognisable from the side last year because of ownership problems and financial miscalculations. They left the auction having spent nowhere near their full quota and missed out on so many players, I would have been simply satisfied if we just had Yuvraj Singh in the side (a Punjabi and our statesman) but alas, they weren't willing to spend 0.3m more to get him and we're left with a shadow of the side we had and more or less no Punjabi representation.

Not enthusiastic about it this year for a number of reasons.
 
KM said:
Btw am I the only who isn't at all interested in this year's IPL. After this WC, I just can't see myself immersing in T20 Cricket for two months, and I reckon that will be the case for many more Indians.
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Inigo Montoya said:
No, you're not alone. I couldn't give a toss. It's like worrying about the Community Shield after you've won the Champions League
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Inigo's analogy is spot on.

I'll watch Chennai's matches alone. Maybe the others if I have nothing else to do -- which is entirely likely, college's ended and I have 3 weeks before my exams.

Chennai's first match's tickets sold out in minutes. It's a shame the way fans' mindset is changing.. I hope this is not the case everywhere.
 
zing said:
Inigo's analogy is spot on.

I'll watch Chennai's matches alone. Maybe the others if I have nothing else to do -- which is entirely likely, college's ended and I have 3 weeks before my exams.

Chennai's first match's tickets sold out in minutes. It's a shame the way fans' mindset is changing.. I hope this is not the case everywhere.
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I'll watch it if I'm really bored or if Sachin's batting, but I don't understand the IPL's popularity. The funny thing is that the people who do watch it, I doubt they really deeply care for the result.

I'd shut the thing down if it possible. Waste of space.
 
I like it in moderate doses. I enjoy supporting my local team. It could be a lot better if they cut down on the number of matches and the ad placings. It's too in-your-face right now.
 

I don't mind repeating everything.
MS Dhoni's response, when asked about his next goal, now that he had scaled all possible peaks as a captain
:devil: At least one guy retains the hunger.
 
zing said:

I don't mind repeating everything.
MS Dhoni's response, when asked about his next goal, now that he had scaled all possible peaks as a captain
:devil: At least one guy retains the hunger.
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What a fantastic response.
 
Donadol said:
I'm tempted to search for Sehwags record in Australia, NZ, WI and Safrica, but it's too much effort. Somehow I doubt anything crappy said is even remotely true.
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Sehwag -
Career Average : 53.43
Average in India: 58.86

in NZ : 20.00
in RSA: 25.46
in ENG: 39.50
in OZ: 59.50
 
BTV_is_neutral said:
Sehwag -
Career Average : 53.43
Average in India: 58.86

in NZ : 20.00
in RSA: 25.46
in ENG: 39.50
in OZ: 59.50
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His average in OZ is pretty good, England one is respectable as well. So I guess he is somewhat in the middle right now, not like Sachin, Dravid or Laxman who have equally good records in foreign pitches.

Think coming season will decide it either way. He failed in SA. Needs to prove himself in England Oz.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Fair enough. I generally do agree but I'd just say that lets wait before forming a judgement on the upcoming lot. Look at Yuvraj's growth in this tournament alone, he's suddenly looking like a beast of a player who seems to have matured. I think there will be fewer players of that level but maybe there will be a few.
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Coming good in WC is not suddenly going to make Yuvraj a test match batsman. He is always a monster player in ODIs when he is at his pomp.

His incapability to convincingly face spinners when he is fresh at the crease makes him a dodgy candidate to make it in the Indian middle order for the tests.
 
crappycraperson said:
His average in OZ is pretty good, England one is respectable as well. So I guess he is somewhat in the middle right now, not like Sachin, Dravid or Laxman who have equally good records in foreign pitches.

Think coming season will decide it either way. He failed in SA. Needs to prove himself in England Oz.
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I'd hazard a guess and say that his ODI record in NZ and SA would be excellent. it's strange how he hasnt managed to do well in Tests there. But keeping in mind he's an opening bat who isn't your classic Test batsman, his record in Oz and England more than proves his mettle outside the subcontinent.
 
ODIs are not as relevant as Tests since even outside the subcontinent you get batsmen friendly pitches mostly. He has not performed close to the same level outside the subcontinent.
 
crappycraperson said:
Coming good in WC is not suddenly going to make Yuvraj a test match batsman. He is always a monster player in ODIs when he is at his pomp.

His incapability to convincingly face spinners when he is fresh at the crease makes him a dodgy candidate to make it in the Indian middle order foir the tests.
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It's clearly not about simply performing in the world cup. He does seem to have turned a corner and from all accounts has matured as a person and a player. And if that is the case hell make the test team because he has all the talent to do so.

Sehwags a fine player but I'm still not totally convinced by him against the moving ball. He'd good at making use of batting friendly conditions.
 
Also I am worried about the windies series and England and Australia tours. Our players are going to be mentally and physically completely drained at the end of the ipl and its going to tell the rest of the year.

Way to go bcci. You fecktards.
 
The Taurean said:
I echo the sentiment. Don't think I rate any of the current players in the likes of Sachin, Warne, McGrath, Kumble in the recent past.
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Amir would definately have been up there, shame he had to ruin his legacy, and its only his fault...

Asif would have aswell. Could have been the Paki McGrath.
 
VidaRed said:
oh really ? i suspect you didn't see sultans post where he asked for a link to the story.
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Mate, this is the Cricket thread posted in the Other Sport Forum. I've got no issues with you getting on the soapbox regarding political issues but that post was not in any way to do with Cricket or Sport in general...
 
rotherham_red said:
Amir would definately have been up there, shame he had to ruin his legacy, and its only his fault...

Asif would have aswell. Could have been the Paki McGrath.
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Definitely? You know how many young talents don't fulfill their potential?

There are no guarantees of being up there with that lot.

You have to earn it and lots of can and usually does go wrong.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Definitely? You know how many young talents don't fulfill their potential?

There are no guarantees of being up there with that lot.

You have to earn it and lots of can and usually does go wrong.
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The way he was going, bearing in mind he was simultaneously spot-fixing towards the end, the world was literally his oyster. Its not even up for debate - you only have to look at Parnell who is around 3 years older and was his contemporary in the 2009 T20. He hit a stagnant period, but Amir went from strength to strength.

A wicket maiden in the first over in the final of the 2009 T20 to get Dilshan who no one had an answer to during that tournament. A Team 5 Wicket maiden in the last over against Australia in the 2010 T20. An outstanding display in Aus and NZ. We dont have to say much about the England Tour, but lets talk about the most memorable spell: 6 Wickets against England in an Innings (The same Innings which he was fixing). All this at the age of 18. Remember Wasim in 92? He was 22 at that time. The pressure he was under was bad, but atleast he had around 3-4 years of International experience. Amir was 17 when he was involved in the 2009 T20 Final, arguably under even more scrutiny due to the upheavel in Pak at the time.

Whats more, he was improving with every game. So much so, he was nigh on the complete bowler... At the age of 18! You name it, he could do it. Away swing, In swing. Yorkers, slower-balls. Leg- and Off-Cutters. Had a very good bouncer also.
He wasn't simply doing the same thing and not getting caught out. He was getting more and more unplayable with every match he played. It almost didn't matter what Wicket he bowled on, he could get the most accomplished of Batsmen out. Some of what he could do with the ball evoked memories of Wasim at his prime, and I dont remember Wasim ever doing similar at the age of 18...
 
rotherham_red said:
The way he was going, bearing in mind he was simultaneously spot-fixing towards the end, the world was literally his oyster. Its not even up for debate - you only have to look at Parnell who is around 3 years older and was his contemporary in the 2009 T20. He hit a stagnant period, but Amir went from strength to strength.

A wicket maiden in the first over in the final of the 2009 T20 to get Dilshan who no one had an answer to during that tournament. A Team 5 Wicket maiden in the last over against Australia in the 2010 T20. An outstanding display in Aus and NZ. We dont have to say much about the England Tour, but lets talk about the most memorable spell: 6 Wickets against England in an Innings (The same Innings which he was fixing). All this at the age of 18. Remember Wasim in 92? He was 22 at that time. The pressure he was under was bad, but atleast he had around 3-4 years of International experience. Amir was 17 when he was involved in the 2009 T20 Final, arguably under even more scrutiny due to the upheavel in Pak at the time.

Whats more, he was improving with every game. So much so, he was nigh on the complete bowler... At the age of 18! You name it, he could do it. Away swing, In swing. Yorkers, slower-balls. Leg- and Off-Cutters. Had a very good bouncer also.
He wasn't simply doing the same thing and not getting caught out. He was getting more and more unplayable with every match he played. It almost didn't matter what Wicket he bowled on, he could get the most accomplished of Batsmen out. Some of what he could do with the ball evoked memories of Wasim at his prime, and I dont remember Wasim ever doing similar at the age of 18...
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Rooney was very complete at 18. He doesn't look like he's going to end up anywhere near Zinadine Zidane despite doing much greater things at 18.

Irfan Pathan at 20 or something was incredible. He was bowling around 85 with swing that few bowlers could match. He guaranteed a wicket or two with the new ball. Not just that, he also had some serious batting talent. I thought this guy could match Kapil Dev given the incredible movement he got and his solid batting.

Where is he now?

What Amir had was talent. It guarantees feck all. No one has a divine right to be a great. Amir was a top talent by all accounts not a certain great. That is ludicrous.
 
All those players had a brilliant start, but they weren't tested to the level that Amir was. Amir was thrust into pressure-cooker situations almost straight away. Yet with every openent, he adapted.

The same cannot be said of the rest. Pathan was found out because batsmen quickly clocked on to the fact that he could be played on the front foot. Rooney's situation is different. Simply because Football, moreso than Cricket, is reliant on tactical deployment of players, rather than the relatively straightforward adversarial nature of Bat vs. Ball, but that discussion is for another day...

Put it this way, the only way Amir was not going to become an All-time Great was if he got caught Fixing/Tampering, which took away his aura of prodigiously innocent brilliance. Even if he was half-arsed in his application and dedication, he would still be a more complete bowler than almost anyone else on the Planet, and still pick up wickets at a more than healthy strikerate. You only have to look at the junkie Asif to realise this...
 
rotherham_red said:
All those players had a brilliant start, but they weren't tested to the level that Amir was. Amir was thrust into pressure-cooker situations almost straight away. Yet with every openent, he adapted.

The same cannot be said of the rest. Pathan was found out because batsmen quickly clocked on to the fact that he could be played on the front foot. Rooney's situation is different. Simply because Football, moreso than Cricket, is reliant on tactical deployment of players, rather than the relatively straightforward adversarial nature of Bat vs. Ball, but that discussion is for another day...

Put it this way, the only way Amir was not going to become an All-time Great was if he got caught Fixing/Tampering, which took away his aura of prodigiously innocent brilliance. Even if he was half-arsed in his application and dedication, he would still be a more complete bowler than almost anyone else on the Planet, and still pick up wickets at a more than healthy strikerate. You only have to look at the junkie Asif to realise this...
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You've clearly made your mind up about exactly how his career was going to pan out which is absurd. I find the assumption of anyone, even if it was Sachin Tendulkar, becoming an all time great based on such a young career absurd, and he's the greatest. Because it takes application, dedication, balls and many other things apart from talent to be that good.

And Pathan was superb for a very good bit for us till he became rubbish. He wasn't 'found out', he lost the plot mentally. You can't get found out with that much swing and at a fairly good pace. His pace fell to around 75-80 and his swing was almost non existent. These things can happen. Believe it or not, shock horror, players do fail to fulfill their potential for many reasons. This isn't FM with Amir's career chart drawn up in advance to be followed to the tee.
 
I think Amir would've become a fantastic bowler... he bowled 90mph+ and had the ability to move it both ways. But it's not just down to his ability....we shouldn't forget that Pakistan can harness fast bowling potential. I see no reason why Amir would've been any different.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
I think Amir would've become a fantastic bowler... he bowled 90mph+ and had the ability to move it both ways. But it's not just down to his ability....we shouldn't forget that Pakistan can harness fast bowling potential. I see no reason why Amir would've been any different.
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Because there are no guarantees of going down as an all-time great, no matter how much the talent is.

Wilshire isn't guaranteed to go down as an all time great. He has to earn that through years of dedication, mental strength and application of his talent.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Because there are no guarantees of going down as an all-time great, no matter how much the talent is.

Wilshire isn't guaranteed to go down as an all time great. He has to earn that through years of dedication, mental strength and application of his talent.
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I think he would've become a fantastic bowler. Of course nothing is a certainty. That said...Fergie said something about Giggs being a certainty when he first cast eyes on him...I think his actually words were 'if he doesn't make it, then we may as well pack it in...'
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
I think he would've become a fantastic bowler. Of course nothing is a certainty. That said...Fergie said something about Giggs being a certainty when he first cast eyes on him...I think his actually words were 'if he doesn't make it, then we may as well pack it in...'
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Well in that case even I think he would have become a very very good bowler. But the talk was about all time great. And I'm just saying it's not a certainty, ever.

It's amazing how much the true greats of any sport put so much stress on dedication. You would have thought they were always destined to being that good and it came easy to them because of the gift. But they always emphasize the importance of those aspects.
 
rotherham_red said:
All those players had a brilliant start, but they weren't tested to the level that Amir was. Amir was thrust into pressure-cooker situations almost straight away. Yet with every openent, he adapted.

The same cannot be said of the rest. Pathan was found out because batsmen quickly clocked on to the fact that he could be played on the front foot. Rooney's situation is different. Simply because Football, moreso than Cricket, is reliant on tactical deployment of players, rather than the relatively straightforward adversarial nature of Bat vs. Ball, but that discussion is for another day...

Put it this way, the only way Amir was not going to become an All-time Great was if he got caught Fixing/Tampering, which took away his aura of prodigiously innocent brilliance. Even if he was half-arsed in his application and dedication, he would still be a more complete bowler than almost anyone else on the Planet, and still pick up wickets at a more than healthy strikerate. You only have to look at the junkie Asif to realise this...
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Pathan's debut series was in Australia, and he performed brilliantly at that. Then he went to Pakistan and then again performed brilliantly. Pathan had PROVED himself at the top stage, but feck knows what happened and he faded away. Amir was a world class talent, but to say that he would've have become a All-Time great is just pure delusion.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Well in that case even I think he would have become a very very good bowler. But the talk was about all time great. And I'm just saying it's not a certainty, ever.

It's amazing how much the true greats of any sport put so much stress on dedication. You would have thought they were always destined to being that good and it came easy to them because of the gift. But they always emphasize the importance of those aspects.
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Yes. And yes you're right about greatness. It's only something that can be measured years into someone's career. I think Pakistan lost two fantastic bowlers...Asif in particular was top top drawer. He was on his way in becoming very special - but some people don't deserve talent. What an utter cnut for being such a waster.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
Yes. And yes you're right about greatness. It's only something that can be measured years into someone's career. I think Pakistan lost two fantastic bowlers...Asif in particular was top top drawer. He was on his way in becoming very special - but some people don't deserve talent. What an utter cnut for being such a waster.
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But really what's the point of Amir's ban. He's going to be 23 when his ban ends so that's a huge let off for a cheat IMO. I don't understand why they don't hand out life bans.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
But really what's the point of Amir's ban. He's going to be 23 when his ban ends so that's a huge let off for a cheat IMO. I don't understand why they don't hand out life bans.
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He was under 18. I believe in redemption - everyone deserves a second chance.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
He was under 18. I believe in redemption - everyone deserves a second chance.
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But going by the what was reported, Amir did not show any remorse in the courts, so he does not deserve a second chance IMO. In fact if he had confessed and helped to make a case against the other two, he would have gotten a lighter punishment!
 
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