ICC Champions Trophy 2017

England v Bangladesh is a great game to kick off with.

Bangladesh have progressed from being a team that causes the occasional upset to dark horses.
 
zing said:
England v Bangladesh is a great game to kick off with.

Bangladesh have progressed from being a team that causes the occasional upset to dark horses.
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They are still prone to the odd heavy beating though - India (favourites in my opinion ahead of England) beat them by 240 runs yesterday. Only 3 Bangladesh players got in to double figures and 2 of them were number 8 & 9 in the batting. England should win today with a bit to spare.
 
After long time our bowling look my better,Umesh,B.kumar,Shami,Bumrah,Ashwin & Jadeja. B.Kumar can clock 140KMP with good consistency, he had improved on his pace drastically, from 125-130 to 140KMP without loosing on his line and length is good improvement.
 
Worryingly good start from Bangladesh against England - batting first they are 78/1 from 15 overs!
 
ChrisNelson said:
Worryingly good start from Bangladesh against England - batting first they are 78/1 from 15 overs!
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Yeah, had a feeling they'd do well.. very underrated ODI side these days and England being overconfident.
 
Tamim Iqbal seems to always fire against England. Very classy to watch.
 
Bangladesh killing it right now. 214-2, Tamin 100no, Mushfique 62no and both are flying. 12 overs to go.

If they can accelerate even more 330+ total which will be very difficult for England given Bangladesh now have some magical seamers and spinners
 
ChrisNelson said:
They are still prone to the odd heavy beating though - India (favourites in my opinion ahead of England) beat them by 240 runs yesterday. Only 3 Bangladesh players got in to double figures and 2 of them were number 8 & 9 in the batting. England should win today with a bit to spare.
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you were saying?
 
Bangladesh bowling is average though. England would fancy anything below 350
 
Mushfiqur has zero game awareness.

330 was on the cards, they'll do well to reach 310 from here.
 
ChrisNelson said:
I put the word 'should' in to cover myself :lol: 'England should beat Bangladesh in England' is a perfectly fair statement, especially following their hammering the other day!
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but your premise was flawed to begin with: pre match warm ups are not very indicative; England also got skittled out for peanuts in last match South Africa. Bangladesh comfortably beat New Zealand in the match prior to India.

in the official calibrated ratings based on an algorithm of complex factors, England is ranked 5th and Bangladesh is ranked 6th.

So in the current context, based on rankings and recent form, there is no substantive basis upon which to make the statemnet 'England should beat Bangladesh in England'
 
hmm.. england will win, bangla didn't throw caution to the wind enough
 
I guess you can always get off to a bad start and 300 can become difficult but they really should've gotten more and England really shouldn't struggle with it.
 
sammsky1 said:
but your premise was flawed to begin with: pre match warm ups are not very indicative; England also got skittled out for peanuts in last match South Africa. Bangladesh comfortably beat New Zealand in the match prior to India.

in the official calibrated ratings based on an algorithm of complex factors, England is ranked 5th and Bangladesh is ranked 6th.

So in the current context, based on rankings and recent form, there is no substantive basis upon which to make the statemnet 'England should beat Bangladesh in England'
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So - discounting the unlikely tie - you think Bangladesh should beat England in England? That's the only alternative but it's not true. Despite good progress in recent times, Bangladesh will still start underdogs against the other top Test nations. No one is saying England will thrash them, clearly they won't today but my statement will be echoed by 99% of cricket fans in this country.
 
ChrisNelson said:
So - discounting the unlikely tie - you think Bangladesh should beat England in England? That's the only alternative but it's not true. Despite good progress in recent times, Bangladesh will still start underdogs against the other top Test nations. No one is saying England will thrash them, clearly they won't today but my statement will be echoed by 99% of cricket fans in this country.
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history is totally irrelevant.

Were Man United underdogs when we played Arsenal?

Bangladesh might lose every game but they are not underdogs at all either. certainly not vs the teams ranked say in 4th and 5th.

And I'm not saying any of the above because I favour one team or another. Its a purely objective assessment based on form and data. Using that as context, I think the correct statement is that 'this game could go either way'.
 
sammsky1 said:
history is totally irrelevant.

Were Man United underdogs when we played Arsenal?

Bangladesh might lose every game but they are not underdogs at all either. certainly not vs the teams ranked say in 4th and 5th.

And I'm not saying any of the above because I favour one team or another. Its a purely objective assessment based on form and data. Using that as context, I think the correct statement is that 'this game could go either way'.
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My statement was based on Bangladesh's record - in all forms of cricket - outside Asia. Before today Bangladesh had beaten England 4 times in 19 matches, and only once in England. I'm sorry but history is very relevant unless the 2 sides are evenly matched, which these 2 aren't unless you've been watching a different sport to me for the last 17 years. Bangladesh need to punch well above their weight to beat England - ergo England should beat Bangladesh.
 
Bangladesh beating England would be an upset. So, yes, England should be beating Bangladesh. This is fairly obvious. England are favourites for a reason.
 
Jason Roy's last 5 scores in limited overs cricket (1 for Surrey and 4 for England) are 1, 1, 8, 4, 1.
 
ChrisNelson said:
My statement was based on Bangladesh's record - in all forms of cricket - outside Asia. Before today Bangladesh had beaten England 4 times in 19 matches, and only once in England. I'm sorry but history is very relevant unless the 2 sides are evenly matched, which these 2 aren't unless you've been watching a different sport to me for the last 17 years. Bangladesh need to punch well above their weight to beat England - ergo England should beat Bangladesh.
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Akash said:
Bangladesh beating England would be an upset. So, yes, England should be beating Bangladesh. This is fairly obvious. England are favourites for a reason.
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both statements inherently biased.

In an objective analysis, history has ZERO relevance. Else West Indies SHOULD THRASH OPPOSITION in every game.
 
sammsky1 said:
both statements inherently biased.

In an objective analysis, history has ZERO relevance. Else West Indies SHOULD THRASH OPPOSITION in every game.
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It's not biased at all. By saying that then you're saying I'm biased if I stated United were better than Sunderland last season, just because I'm a United fan! I even dropped some stats in there to help...
I consider India tournament favourites - if England play India, looking at the 2 sides I would say India at present should win that match, even outside the Asia comfort zone. You even admitted yourself that England are higher in the ODI rankings, and I think Bangladesh are lucky to be as high as 6th given they've won 6 out of their last 16 matches and lost to Afghanistan last year.
I find it hard to accept anyone who knows anything about cricket would not consider England a superior team - overall.
 
ChrisNelson said:
It's not biased at all. By saying that then you're saying I'm biased if I stated United were better than Sunderland last season, just because I'm a United fan! I even dropped some stats in there to help...
I consider India tournament favourites - if England play India, looking at the 2 sides I would say India at present should win that match, even outside the Asia comfort zone. You even admitted yourself that England are higher in the ODI rankings, and I think Bangladesh are lucky to be as high as 6th given they've won 6 out of their last 16 matches and lost to Afghanistan last year.
I find it hard to accept anyone who knows anything about cricket would not consider England a superior team - overall.
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That's because India are ranked 1st and England 5th, so its a fair analysis.

I can just about remember West Indies bossing world cricket and India fluking their way to their 1st world cup. From that cumulative knowledge of the game, I also have many biases, opinions and desires and used to view the world through those.

I don't anymore because it's so hard to find objective analysis, especially in social media and on the cafe. So I try to stick to facts. In that space, concepts like pedigree and history, luck have no relevance.

I'm not trying to be difficult and ou should believe in what you believe, I just can't find enough subjective analysis to share the same view.
 
sammsky1 said:
That's because India are ranked 1st and England 5th, so its a fair analysis.

I can just about remember West Indies bossing world cricket and India fluking their way to their 1st world cup. From that cumulative knowledge of the game, I also have many biases, opinions and desires and used to view the world through those.

I don't anymore because it's so hard to find objective analysis, especially in social media and on the cafe. So I try to stick to facts. In that space, concepts like pedigree and history, luck have no relevance.

I'm not trying to be difficult and ou should believe in what you believe, I just can't find enough subjective analysis to share the same view.
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The media consider England tournament favourites, or at least joint. A lot of that is down to them being the home team. England will probably never in my lifetime go in to a tournament in the sub-continent as favourites. It's just too alien to us no matter how many times we go there. If this match was happening in Dhaka I'd give Bangladesh a 50/50 shout but over here in these conditions and with the 2 teams where they are right now a Bangladesh win would be considered an upset.
 
sammsky1 said:
That's because India are ranked 1st and England 5th, so its a fair analysis.

I can just about remember West Indies bossing world cricket and India fluking their way to their 1st world cup. From that cumulative knowledge of the game, I also have many biases, opinions and desires and used to view the world through those.

I don't anymore because it's so hard to find objective analysis, especially in social media and on the cafe. So I try to stick to facts. In that space, concepts like pedigree and history, luck have no relevance.

I'm not trying to be difficult and ou should believe in what you believe, I just can't find enough subjective analysis to share the same view.
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https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/odi

The gap between 1st & 5th is half the gap between 5th and 6th.
 
ChrisNelson said:
The media consider England tournament favourites, or at least joint. A lot of that is down to them being the home team. England will probably never in my lifetime go in to a tournament in the sub-continent as favourites. It's just too alien to us no matter how many times we go there. If this match was happening in Dhaka I'd give Bangladesh a 50/50 shout but over here in these conditions and with the 2 teams where they are right now a Bangladesh win would be considered an upset.
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I'd consider Bangladesh beating this England team an upset regardless of conditions tbh.
 
sammsky, this argument is completely pointless. There was nothing wrong with ChrisNelson's opinion.
 
ChrisNelson said:
The media consider England tournament favourites, or at least joint. A lot of that is down to them being the home team. England will probably never in my lifetime go into a tournament in the sub-continent as favourites. It's just too alien to us no matter how many times we go there. If this match was happening in Dhaka I'd give Bangladesh a 50/50 shout but over here in these conditions and with the 2 teams where they are right now a Bangladesh win would be considered an upset.
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below is your original premise: The discussion started from that.


ChrisNelson said:
They are still prone to the odd heavy beating though - India (favourites in my opinion ahead of England) beat them by 240 runs yesterday. Only 3 Bangladesh players got into double figures and 2 of them were number 8 & 9 in the batting. England should win today with a bit to spare.
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Looks like you are going to be correct and England will win today. They have a great batting line up, but I suspect their limited bowling will hold them back from winning the tournament. Anyways, enjoyed the discussion.
 
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Morgan looks to be playing the best cricket he's played in a long, long time.
 
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