Hypothetically, if we actually went for major changes to the squad which players would you desperately like to retain?

Desperately Elanga, Sancho and Varane.
Would keep Bruno, Fred, McTominay, Dalot, Telles and maybe Lindelof.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
Bernardo Silva was, imho, such an obvious signing when he was at Monaco. The type of creator who would receive the ball in the wide areas and then tuck inside to make things happen. Great football intelligence with the technical skills to force the issue in compacted areas and against organized defences. I was not surprised when Pep snatched him. I was disappointed, but not surprised at all.

I think i agree with the gist of your post. Our inability to cut defences open with quick and decisive passing, the dithering on the ball when there aren't acres of space to run into, the shocking first touches and the unwillingness to work on the pitch for their teammates is quite telling. It was amazing that the club actually believed that we would be set for a decade with an attacking trident consisting of three forwards with zero ability in tight spaces. At some point, it seems that they could offer them Brazil's 1970 front-four for free and they would just wave it away saying that we have Tony, Rashy, Mason and Bruno.

Anyway, we do seem to be full of "moments" players. When their end product is enough to get us over the line, we gladly take the three points and sweep everything else under the rug. When we also have a manager who will keep them happy and cater the platform for them to simply "go out there and do their thing", we can get some prolonged periods of good form that will probably be enough for a top-four finish, but no higher. But, as a quarter of a century under SAF has taught us, the truly good sides are those who perform better than the sum of their parts. If the new manager gets us going, some of them - surely not all - will play their part and their contributions may prove important in crucial parts of the season. You know, provide us with these moments that can make or break a season. But this may become possible only if the purpose of the tactics and of the logic behind the team-building is to make the most of their contributions without trying to accommodate all their weaknesses.
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This is the key point. Our only attacking signing over the last 3-4 years that actually has the technical ability required to operate in such tight spaces is Sancho. Look at City for example they've played 2 seasons now without a focal point, 30 goal a season striker and are still walking the league and reached the UCL final. The technical ability of City's players are on a completely different level to ours. It's that simple. We have a bunch of kick and run merchants that can only score goals on the break in comparison.

The way City kept the ball on their left side most of the game overloading that side and then using the first touch of Mahrez/Bernardo to quickly switch play and create one on one situations on the other side is incredible. We neither have the ability on the ball to overload a wing and keep it or the ability to switch the play and dead it on the first touch to attack the opposing sides fullbacks. Never mind the fact that their fullbacks yesterday (Cancelo and Walker) have more technical ability than our attackers.
We're so far behind City it's a joke.

The problem for me is that as you said this has been glaringly obvious for a long time now. To make it worse we've actually gone and got Ronaldo and Cavani who although despite once upon a time used to be very technical players no longer have a first touch and can no longer play and keep possession in tight spaces. So this season we have been using a front 4 of a mixture of Bruno, Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Lingard, Greenwood and Elanga. The only player out of those that can actually retain possession in tight spaces and potentially good enough technically to play for City is Sancho.

Unfortunately a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that these sorts of players (the Mahrez's, Bernardo's, Foden's Grealish's) are few and far between and would cost a fortune, which isn't the case. We don't even need to sign players for 80-120 million to get better technical players than what we have at the moment. There are players that play for Brighton that have more technical ability than the ones we have. Not to mention players like Raphinha that would absolutely walk into our team and may end up as our most technical player. He plays for Leeds...

Hopefully if we do get ETH we'll see a big change in our overall technical ability, give him 200 mill and one summer window we'd see a drastic improvement in the technique of our first 11 near enough immediately.
 
It’s a depressing short list isn’t it and “desperately” is probably overselling it. As it stands, the players I’d keep even if only as squad options would be:

Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Telles
McTominay
Bruno
Sancho
Rashford
Elanga

That’s being fairly generous, hoping the likes of Rashford can find form, and I’ve still got less than a full team.
 
Desperately?

None of them.

Because you have to be realistic and can't just sack a whole squad of anyone aged over 22, I'd be happy to keep De Gea, Heaton, Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Bruno, Mejbri, Elanga and Sancho.

The rest could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't bat an eyelid.
 
Doracle said:
It’s a depressing short list isn’t it and “desperately” is probably overselling it. As it stands, the players I’d keep even if only as squad options would be:

Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Telles
McTominay
Bruno
Sancho
Rashford
Elanga

That’s being fairly generous, hoping the likes of Rashford can find form, and I’ve still got less than a full team.
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Maguire? Really?
 
De Gea - Keep, we have bigger problems
Henderson - Sell, one less headache
Heaton - Keep as back up
Grant - Release, why is he here?

AWB - Sell, not good enough
Dalot - Keep as back up
Maguire - Sell, not good enough
Varane - Keep 1st choice
Bailly - Sell, injury prone
Lindelof - Keep as back up
Jones - Sell, for his own sake
Shaw - Keep, good enough
Telles - Keep, see Shaw

Matic - Sell, legs gone
Fred - Keep, squad player
McTominay - Keep, squad player
Pogba - Release, he won’t renew
Bruno - Keep, obvious reasons
Lingard - Release, out of contract
Mata - Release, out of contract

Sancho - Keep, see Bruno
Rashford - Keep, he will come good
Martial - Sell, he’s unhappy
Ronaldo - Sell, hasn’t worked out
Cavani - Release, never wanted to be here

Edit: Just looking at that list and I can see around 10 players who I think are certain to leave in the summer. This summer is going to be absolutely massive, Ralf and the new manager really have their work cut out for them. Part of me is excited for change and a new start, the other part of me knows what the Glazers are like so best not to get my hopes up.
 
the_cliff said:
This is the key point. Our only attacking signing over the last 3-4 years that actually has the technical ability required to operate in such tight spaces is Sancho. Look at City for example they've played 2 seasons now without a focal point, 30 goal a season striker and are still walking the league and reached the UCL final. The technical ability of City's players are on a completely different level to ours. It's that simple. We have a bunch of kick and run merchants that can only score goals on the break in comparison.

The way City kept the ball on their left side most of the game overloading that side and then using the first touch of Mahrez/Bernardo to quickly switch play and create one on one situations on the other side is incredible. We neither have the ability on the ball to overload a wing and keep it or the ability to switch the play and dead it on the first touch to attack the opposing sides fullbacks. Never mind the fact that their fullbacks yesterday (Cancelo and Walker) have more technical ability than our attackers.
We're so far behind City it's a joke.

The problem for me is that as you said this has been glaringly obvious for a long time now. To make it worse we've actually gone and got Ronaldo and Cavani who although despite once upon a time used to be very technical players no longer have a first touch and can no longer play and keep possession in tight spaces. So this season we have been using a front 4 of a mixture of Bruno, Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Lingard, Greenwood and Elanga. The only player out of those that can actually retain possession in tight spaces and potentially good enough technically to play for City is Sancho.

Unfortunately a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that these sorts of players (the Mahrez's, Bernardo's, Foden's Grealish's) are few and far between and would cost a fortune, which isn't the case. We don't even need to sign players for 80-120 million to get better technical players than what we have at the moment. There are players that play for Brighton that have more technical ability than the ones we have. Not to mention players like Raphinha that would absolutely walk into our team and may end up as our most technical player. He plays for Leeds...

Hopefully if we do get ETH we'll see a big change in our overall technical ability, give him 200 mill and one summer window we'd see a drastic improvement in the technique of our first 11 near enough immediately.
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Spot on! one could even go as far to say that some of the midtable sides are also technically much stronger that our players. Ever since Fergie retired we've gone a complete nonsense route of signing players. The last 'technical players' we signed was probably RVP and Kagawa and that went south real quick.
 
Red Dreams said:
It filters down from the top.
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The club seems blissfully unaware how much they p*ss fans off. I just looked at Facebook and their announcement about it being Fred's 150th game yesterday resurface again. The comments are basically 150 too many. Also they have put out the usual We go again post which as you can imagine has gone down particularly well.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
The club seems blissfully unaware how much they p*ss fans off. I just looked at Facebook and their announcement about it being Fred's 150th game yesterday resurface again. The comments are basically 150 too many. Also they have put out the usual We go again post which as you can imagine has gone down particularly well.
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There was a banner at the Villa game.

Glazers. Rotten from top to bottom.
I paraphrase.

A new manager appointment by itself will solve nothing.
Throwing money at the problem will solve nothing.

We need to be run as a football club.
But that wont happen with this lot owning United.
 
Red Dreams said:
There was a banner at the Villa game.

Glazers. Rotten from top to bottom.
I paraphrase.

A new manager appointment by itself will solve nothing.
Throwing money at the problem will solve nothing.

We need to be run as a football club.
But that wont happen with this lot owning United.
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What are the alternatives though. Not a Russian, nobody wants a rich arab, the situation in Ukraine has made China a tad unpopular.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
What are the alternatives though. Not a Russian, nobody wants a rich arab, the situation in Ukraine has made China a tad unpopular.
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That is the problem. We have become so big no one can afford to buy us.
And if we do get someone who actually understands the game, it will be the likes of what you say. Newcastle next season will be the new City.

Too bad for the younger fans though.

Those of my generation saw the best of the club.
 
Going by the Squad on wikipedia
  1. De Gea - Keep no brainer
  2. Lindelof - Keep, Good CB and can partner with Varne
  3. Bailly - Sell if can get good price, He has been way to injured
  4. Jones - Let go
  5. Magurie - We have to keep due to wages
  6. Pgoba - feck him off
  7. Ronaldo - Keep, but realistically he only has 12 months left and if he wants to leave then let him go
  8. Mata - Will be leaving
  9. Martial - Sell
  10. Rashford - Keep but give him time off
  11. Greenwood - Legal Case pending,
  12. N/A
  13. Grant - Will probably be a coach here
  14. Lingard - Let him leave
  15. Pereira - Let him leave
  16. Dailo - Keep
  17. Fred - Keep
  18. Fernandes - Keep
  19. Varane - Keep
  20. Dalot - Keep
  21. Cavani - Will be leaving
  22. Heaton - Keep
  23. Shaw - Keep
  24. NA
  25. Sancho - Mega Keep
  26. Henderson - Sell for maybe 15 mill quid
  27. Telles - Keep
  28. Pellstri - not sure
  29. AWB - Keep
  30. NA
  31. Matic - Keep on a reduced contract but if he wants to leave let him
  32. NA
  33. Williams - Keep I guess
  34. DVDB - Sell
Mctominay - Keep
And Keep all the young players
 
Desperately like to retain:
DDG, Sancho, Dalot (maybe not as a starting fb at the moment, but he is a bit underrated and might improve), Varane, Elanga, Pogba

Wouldn't mind if they stayed:
Fred (backup), Fernandes, Lindelof (backup CB)
 
Sancho
De gea
Varane
Fernandes
Rashford
Shaw
Elanga
Anthony Hopkins
Phil Jones
 
Bastian said:
Apart from the youth that haven't been given chances (Mejbri, Laird, Garner, etc.) I'd say Mason and Bruno. I think I'd not be desperate to retain anyone else. Happy with quite a few more, but not desperate for them to stay and then a host of players I think don't work for various reasons.

edited.
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I would keep De Gea, Varane, Bruno and Sancho/VDB if (Erik ten Hagen comes in) - Build around these with Garner/Laird/Elanga as Squad Players also (McTominay, not the best but has shown more heart than the rest this season)

Mata/Matic/Pogba/Lingard/Cavani and 50/50 Ronaldo will be going end of season so need to seriously overhaul majority of this lot whilst buying players who want to be at the club rather than rinse the club for money. Sell Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Fred, Rashford (I really believe he is the one who has been leaking things to the press) his attitude has stunk past 3 seasons injuries or not, Lee Grant (Why he was signed when we could have promoted a youngster is laughable), Martial get rid also.

We need to be absolutely ruthless and start making who will be sold in April and start discussions with new manager in April with who he wants with help from Ralf's Reports and bring in a Wage Structure that no players will be allowed to earn X amount but can get bonuses if they perform/get certain goals/clean sheets etc.
 
Varane's been fecking useless, always injured and no better than Maguire or Lindelof when he plays. He doesn't deserve to be on a pedestal.

For the record I couldn't care less if we sold the whole team, wouldn't mind keeping Sancho and Elanga but the rest either don't care or aren't good enough.
 
AltiUn said:
Varane's been fecking useless, always injured and no better than Maguire or Lindelof when he plays. He doesn't deserve to be on a pedestal.

For the record I couldn't care less if we sold the whole team, wouldn't mind keeping Sancho and Elanga but the rest either don't care or aren't good enough.
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Not on a pedestal but has played much better than any of our defenders when he has been fit. Was unlucky to be injured when playing for France but not gonna berate him for testing positive for COVID.
 
I'm not going to count the kids like Elanga, Hannibal, etc. Obviously they should be staying (or going out on loan).

Sancho is probably the only one I'd be desperate to keep as he's already starting to look good and he's one who should only go from strength to strength in a properly functioning team with a better system around him. In theory Varane should also be on the list, but he's missed as many matches as he's played and he hasn't actually been that good when he has played (other than one or two matches where he was fantastic).

Otherwise, I'd hope Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Fred and Lindelof would be given a chance to show what they can do in a proper system, as if they regain their form they should at least be good squad players if not starters. However if the new manager thinks that any or all of them need to go then so be it. All of them have definite issues that could potentially clash with certain tactics or styles that the new manager might want to implement.

The rest of the team? I either couldn't care less or actively want them gone.
 
MadDogg said:
I'm not going to count the kids like Elanga, Hannibal, etc. Obviously they should be staying (or going out on loan).

Sancho is probably the only one I'd be desperate to keep as he's already starting to look good and he's one who should only go from strength to strength in a properly functioning team with a better system around him. In theory Varane should also be on the list, but he's missed as many matches as he's played and he hasn't actually been that good when he has played (other than one or two matches where he was fantastic).

Otherwise, I'd hope Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Fred and Lindelof would be given a chance to show what they can do in a proper system, as if they regain their form they should at least be good squad players if not starters. However if the new manager thinks that any or all of them need to go then so be it. All of them have definite issues that could potentially clash with certain tactics or styles that the new manager might want to implement.

The rest of the team? I either couldn't care less or actively want them gone.
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How many chances does Shaw, Rashford or Fred need. Shaw has been here since LVG and had what 1 good season, Rashford has been poor for come 3 seasons not set the world on fire with his attitude and work rate and Fred is Fred. Lindelof I feel sorry for as he has to do 2 defenders job in 1 when playing with the Donkey (Maguire). Bruno looks like whatever is transpiring in the squad is taking an affect on him and a proper clearout, players brought in who want to work, run and give everything will see him return to his old self.
 
Easy for me which players to retain

First team De Gea Varane Sancho Elanga Dalot Lindelof

Bench Rashford Fred Hannibal

Get rid of the rest and get the right mentality players in who also have quality.
 
Took the list from @Cooksen 's post

  1. De Gea - Keep for now, unless a better sweeper keeper is available then sell. He is never gonna be backup with his wages
  2. Lindelof - Keep, Good squad CB, never a starter
  3. Bailly - Sell if can get good price, He has been way to injured
  4. Jones - Let go
  5. Maguire - Sell, get rid. Never at the required level
  6. Pogba- Let him go, too much hassle for so little output
  7. Ronaldo - Keep if he wants, let go if he wants
  8. Mata - Will be leaving
  9. Martial - Sell
  10. Rashford - Get rid
  11. Greenwood - Legal Case pending
  12. Grant - Will probably be a coach here
  13. Lingard - Let him leave
  14. Pereira - Let him leave
  15. Dialo- Seen him once or twice
  16. Fred - Keep
  17. Fernandes - Keep
  18. Varane - Keep, unfortunately made of glass though. Partner him with another very good CB and have Lindelof stand in when he's injured.
  19. Dalot - Keep
  20. Cavani - Will be leaving
  21. Heaton - Keep
  22. Shaw - Get rid, get a good fluid LB
  23. Sancho - Keep
  24. Henderson - Sell if we can get good money, great shot stopper, not much good at other areas plus like to talk (going by media reports, nothing confirmed from my side, I'm not ITK)
  25. Telles - Keep as backup LB
  26. Pellstri - Never seen him
  27. AWB - Keep but try to work on his short passing and attacking
  28. Matic - Keep but only use sparingly when half the squad is injured or in meaningless games, guy can't run anymore
  29. Williams - Keep backup, can play both RB and LB
  30. DVDB - Genuinely haven't seen him enough
Mctominay - Keep, good squad player in there, not a starter for sure.
 
Goal Keeper
De Gea

Sell Henderson and get a cheap backup.

Defenders
Varane
Lindelof
Dalot
Telles
Shaw

Sell AWB and cut our loss. Maguire too if we can get a decent fee

Need a CB and RB. Plus promote Laird.

Midfielder

Scott
Bruno
Fred

Rest all should be sold or released.

Get 2 CM ( CDM and AM)

Promote Mjebri, Garner or Galbraith.

Attackers

Sancho
Elanga
Amad

Ronaldo and Cavani should be released. Keep one of Rashford or Martial. If both are desperate to go, then sell them both. Mata should be released.

Promote Garnacho and Mcneill. And we need to buy a ST. Plus a RW.
 
TrueRed1999 said:
How many chances does Shaw, Rashford or Fred need. Shaw has been here since LVG and had what 1 good season, Rashford has been poor for come 3 seasons not set the world on fire with his attitude and work rate and Fred is Fred. Lindelof I feel sorry for as he has to do 2 defenders job in 1 when playing with the Donkey (Maguire). Bruno looks like whatever is transpiring in the squad is taking an affect on him and a proper clearout, players brought in who want to work, run and give everything will see him return to his old self.
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Shaw has had one great season plus a couple of good ones. More importantly, I do think he could potentially be almost perfect for a team that looks to dominate possession, and good luck finding another fullback who combines the ball-playing, first-touch, running power and defensive strength that an in-form Shaw provides. His potential upside is so high that I'd be disappointed not to see him given the opportunity in a proper system. However he'd have no-one to blame but himself if he wasn't given that opportunity as he's lost the plot this season and he has been quite inconsistent throughout his entire time here.

Rashford has been poor for two seasons, not three. And even in the first poor season he was still providing a lot of goals and assists. Am I confident he'll come good? Not at all. But much like Shaw I would be hoping he might turn it around with a proper manager and system, and I'd be disappointed for him not to be given the chance. But once again, it'd be his own fault if he's not, as he's not showing any signs of fixing his workrate under Rangnick which you would expect the new manager to also demand.

Fred would be more just as a squad player, a role where I'd much rather him than any of our other current midfielders. But depending on what system the new manager instils, I could also see him being decent as a starter for a season or two until we get around to upgrading him. The way we've played him out of position as our deepest midfielder for most of his time here has basically highlighted his weaknesses and he's definitely not good enough for that, but if we started using him the way that he plays for Brazil (and that Kante plays for Chelsea for example) then I do think he could be effective.

Same deal with Lindelof. Long term he shouldn't be a starter, but he's just about perfect as 3rd choice and he can be a starter in the meantime.
 
Probably only Rashford, Sancho and McTominay. Bruno at a push if he can be coached out of his Hollywood passes. The rest of them I don’t really give a crap
 
DDG, Henderson,
Shaw, Telles,
Varane, Maguire (4th choice)
Bruno, VdB (give him a run)
Rashford, Sancho

Everyone else has had a fair run and been pretty rubbish for quite a while. Rashford has had plenty of chances too tbh, but i think he's a decent player in some shit form.
 
glazed said:
Ronaldo
Cavani
AWB
Maguire
Pogba
DdG (reluctantly but he doesn't come off his line)

The rest are keeps or maybes
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Top two are long gone this summer, others on your list can leave for me too
 
I'd keep none of them, not even Sancho and Varane.

I say we gut this entire squad, do it in 3/4 windows.
 
When some of you lot genuinely talk about selling ten to fifteen players, you’re aware as to how stupid it makes you sound, aren’t you?

We’ve got some gaping holes in the first team, primarily in central midfield and up top, but most of the players are more than good enough to be here and some of them are in actual fact very good.

A decent coach, some wise signings, a bit of luck from the youth ranks and some momentum and football changes fast. Next thing you know you’re winning matches every week with Jordan Henderson in midfield and the likes of Mo Salah turn into superstars.

I’m sure we’ll continue to stumble around like a blind man in a brothel, but that isn’t to say being a good team isn’t possible. That is the story of the past ten years.
 
Maguire has to go. He can't be backup on his wages. There simply isn't a solution unless he leaves for good.
 
Kag said:
When some of you lot genuinely talk about selling ten to fifteen players, you’re aware as to how stupid it makes you sound, aren’t you?

We’ve got some gaping holes in the first team, primarily in central midfield and up top, but most of the players are more than good enough to be here and some of them are in actual fact very good.

A decent coach, some wise signings, a bit of luck from the youth ranks and some momentum and football changes fast. Next thing you know you’re winning matches every week with Jordan Henderson in midfield and the likes of Mo Salah turn into superstars.

I’m sure we’ll continue to stumble around like a blind man in a brothel, but that isn’t to say being a good team isn’t possible. That is the story of the past ten years.
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Agreed but those are quite a few variables to fulfil. I have no faith in our recruitment department.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I also think it’s obvious that things are not good in the dressing room,some of our players love a moan on the pitch so I can only imagine how bad they are inside the dressing room. The toxicity is everywhere in this club
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Yeah poisonous from top to bottom
 
DRJosh said:
Agreed but those are quite a few variables to fulfil. I have no faith in our recruitment department.
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I don’t have faith in anyone linked to the club. And even when I do we still end up being shite so I prefer to work on the assumption that nothing will work. Easy life.
 
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