Hypothetically, if we actually went for major changes to the squad which players would you desperately like to retain?

Bastian said:
Apart from the youth that haven't been given chances (Mejbri, Laird, Garner, etc.) I'd say Mason and Bruno. I think I'd not be desperate to retain anyone else. Happy with quite a few more, but not desperate for them to stay and then a host of players I think don't work for various reasons.
Click to expand...


Interesting idea really, because it really drives home the point of how lacking our squad is, and certainly so in terms of first XI Man Utd quality.

My lists won't just take into account ability/ performance, it will consider wage to return ratio, perhaps how difficult it would be to adequately replace a player, a semblance of squad stability/continuity, chances of a good sale, whether or not a player would actually remain content if I were to give them a bit part role so therefore sell instead...etc.

So here goes:-

Desperate tier 1: De Gea, Sancho, Greenwood
Desperate tier 2: Varane, Bruno, Cavani

Rotation options: Maguire, Shaw, De Beek, Rashford

Backup options: Lindelof, McTominay, Grant, Heaton

Development chance (max 2 to 3 years, I.e actually use and test them): Elanga, Diallo, Mengi, Garner,


Sell whilst we can (something we are outright embarrassing at and certainly long overdue in the case of many): Fred, Jones, Bailly, Tuanzebe, Awb, Telles, Dalot, Henderson, Williams,

Clear as day need to go good sale or not: Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Matic, Martial, Pereira



So that's 14 senior players that I kept, leaving 11 to bring in. 6 of which need to be first XI capable to join De Gea, Varane, Bruno, Sancho, Greenwood as those I hang my hat on for 30 apps a season.

I nearly sold Maguire, but realised we'll do well to get 40m, and then who are we bringing in for that amount that's as fit, significantly better than and as experienced as him. Then remember we've got to register 8 homegrown players and there doesn't seem a point in letting him go.

Ronaldo, conspicuous by his absence on my list...I think he'll want to go. He changes the we play, and other than feel good and marketing potential I dont think he's the right fit for our squad and certainly wouldn't accept a squad role.
 
Last edited:
DDG, Varane, Greenwood, Sancho and maybe Bruno. I'd keep Lindelof too.
 
De Gea, Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno, McTominay, Fred, Telles, Lindelöf, Dalot.

They are the only ones who I can see are not scared of the storm, and currently are fighting and giving everything.

Cavani if he was any younger he'd be one of the first to keep but not now sadly.
 
Last edited:
Going by their average ratings for the season so far, there are only 4 players with average of 6+ scores:

DDG
Henderson
Ronaldo
Varane

Other than the above…

* Bruno - having a blip but who isn’t at the moment?
* Greenwood - I predict he will be our best home grown player since SAF era for as long as he stays here
* Sancho - strong potential
* McT - he gets a lot of stick but is good squad player, has leadership qualities and a great shot on him
* Lindelof - pairs up with Varane quite well and now better than Maguire

Aside from the youth, I think the following should go:

* Mata - not sure why we gave him a new contract other than he’s a nice guy / ambassador of the club
* Lingard - long overdue and shame did not cash in last summer
* Maguire - poor excuse for a captain, loser mentality
* Fred - likeable and workhorse but not United syandard
* Shaw - plays well just when you think he’s done but that interview shows lack of leadership from a senior player - get rid
* Cavani - love the guy but only for the remainder of this season
* Pogba - he’s injured most of the time (ignoring all the other reasons)
* AWB - has regressed in his time here
* VDB - hasn’t had a chance but that must mean he is shit
* Martial - if I could be bothered to cut / paste, he would be first on my list
* Rashford - has ability BUT either he is a selfish twat OR he has no footballing brain
* Bailly - great on his day but always a huge mistake in him every other game, followed by an injury
* Dalot - I’m indifferent about him, don’t care either way (squad player)
* Telles - as above
* Phil Jones - I don’t believe in fairytales
So this leaves

DDG / Henderson
LB - Varane - Lindelof - RB
Sancho - McT - CM - Bruno
CR7 - Greenwood

https://www.redcafe.net/players/2021-22/all
 
Last edited:
I would keep a few players especially some of the older ones like Mata and Ronaldo who may be able to foster a good environment for younger players.

My list of keep:
Greenwood
Sancho
Henderson
Mctominay
Fred
Ronaldo
Mata
Jones ( I believe in the redemption arc)
Varane
Maguire
Telles
Shaw
Ronaldo

Indifferent:
Bailly
Lindelof
De Gea
Matic

Get rid:
Pogba
Martial
AWB (Never been a fan, even when people were creaming over his highlights at Crystal Palace I thought he looked gangly and uncoordinated)
Rashford (If the rumors are true and he is a bad egg in the dressing room he can feck right off)
Lingard
Van de Beek (If we get Ten Haag, then I would say keep because he clearly knows how to get VDB playing well)
Cavani (Huge fan and would like to keep but realistically he's off)
Probably can't think of the other players but they can leave too
 
jesperjaap said:
Why are major changes not possible? I hate people saying this, we had Ole saying it himself with "a process". People keep banging on about the level of Pep and Klopp and just look at the number of players they bought in for there very first window and those they both sold and loaned out with a view to selling. You say major changes arent needed yet you can only name nine key players for us out of a squad of thirty five and not even all of them do you feel are starters
Click to expand...

None of us here are experts in the finances of football, but I would expect that major changes - let's call that 10 out and 10 in - would be incredibly expensive.

Loaning players out is all well and good but does not bring the immediate funds the club would need in order to reinvest. Factor in how hard it is to sell players on the salaries we pay, as well as the United tax we usually encounter trying to bring them in, and its just not realistic to expect a major overhaul in any one window.

As for whether major changes are actually needed, I still hold the opinion that bringing in a couple of quality, energetic midfielders could revitalise the entire squad, so for me if we could bring in 3 (2 midfielder and a striker) we would be able to move out 6 or 7 players that we wouldn't miss over a season. The squad instantly looks leaner and more balanced.
 
Bilbo said:
None of us here are experts in the finances of football, but I would expect that major changes - let's call that 10 out and 10 in - would be incredibly expensive.

Loaning players out is all well and good but does not bring the immediate funds the club would need in order to reinvest. Factor in how hard it is to sell players on the salaries we pay, as well as the United tax we usually encounter trying to bring them in, and its just not realistic to expect a major overhaul in any one window.

As for whether major changes are actually needed, I still hold the opinion that bringing in a couple of quality, energetic midfielders could revitalise the entire squad, so for me if we could bring in 3 (2 midfielder and a striker) we would be able to move out 6 or 7 players that we wouldn't miss over a season. The squad instantly looks leaner and more balanced.
Click to expand...
True. It's easy to over exagerrate how bad things are at the moment but if we finally sort the midfield I would hope everything else would start to fall in to place. In the summer if we bought:

- DM
- CM
- RB (depending on Laird's progress)
- ST

We could sell/release the following and we'd barely notice:

Free
- Pogba
- Lingard
- Cavani
- Mata

Fees
- Martial
- Matic (probably close to free)
- VDB
- Dalot (or AWB)
- Bailly
- Jones
- a GK (we need a decision on long term number 1)

Personally I'd also lose Ronaldo if possible but no one would take his wage on.
 
Its simple. Get rid of every player who earns more than £200K, bar Varane and Sancho because they have long term contracts.

Also get rid of Matic and Mata, saving another £340k per week plus the likes of Bailly and Jones, who can't stay fit.

This then gives us the opportunity to carry out a real cultural reset. Nobody on more than £200K per week, nobody earns more than the captain, £50m is the max we will pay for a player etc...
 
Lentwood said:
Its simple. Get rid of every player who earns more than £200K, bar Varane and Sancho because they have long term contracts.

Also get rid of Matic and Mata, saving another £340k per week plus the likes of Bailly and Jones, who can't stay fit.

This then gives us the opportunity to carry out a real cultural reset. Nobody on more than £200K per week, nobody earns more than the captain, £50m is the max we will pay for a player etc...
Click to expand...
Easier said than done with Ronaldo, De Gea and Rashford's contracts. At least Martial already wants to leave. Do we have any others?
 
Shaw - Yes, has been poor this season compared to last but assuming he can stay motivated he is a great fullback
Wan Bissaka - Yes, he's having a poor season but he's a quality one on one defender he has at least a squad role to play in a well drilled team
Varane - Yes, assuming he can stay fit
Fred - Yes, perfect squad player in the mould of a Park Ji-Sung
McTominay - Yes, as long as it's only as a squad player
Fernandes - Yes
Sancho - Yes
Greenwood - Yes
Diallo - Yes
Mejbri - Yes
Shoretire - Yes

Maguire - Not sure, has demonstrated in the past he can be at least very good in a well set up team, but his lack of pace means I doubt he can be the defender we need

De Gea - No, great shot stopper but a large part of our defensive frailty going back to the last of SAFs years in charge (where we gave away a lot of chances) is due to his inability to come off his line and dominate his area.
Henderson - No, although he has a good attitude I don't think he has the ability to be a top class keeper.
Teles - No
Dalot - No
Bailly - No, can't stay fit and too impulsive
Lindelof - No, has demonstrated multiple times he lacks the physicality for the PL
Jones - No, can't stay fit, if he could then yes
Van de Beek - has to be no, hasn't been given a chance but when he has played he hasn't shown enough
Matic - No, hasn't got the legs anymore
Pogba - No, he needs to go
Rashford - No, hasn't played well for over 2 years now, from a footballing perspective if we could get good money for him it would make sense to cash in
Martial - No, doesn't have the mentality to match him ability
Cavani - No, can't stay fit, shame he's not 10 years younger
Ronaldo - No, from a footballing perspective despite his goals he doesn't contribute enough to the team overall
Lingaard - No
Mata - No
Elanga - No, I don't see anything special
Heaton - No
 
Abraxas said:
I tend to agree, there are very few you would shed a tear for. It's a sad indictment of where we are.

Not including youth products:

Bruno as I think he's proven his class but there is work to do to ensure he actually plays a team role in a functioning side.

Greenwood and Sancho because they're young and have ability, but must improve.

Varane and Maguire because realistically we've dropped big money on them, we have to get better out of them and keep the former fit. Hypothetical or not I think it makes more sense to keep some semblance of reality.

Thats about it, I think the future of the rest can be on the table depending on the market. There is a limit to what you can do in one or two windows but naturally if good offers came in for somebody I think they have to be considered.
Click to expand...
Same except not Maguire, won't be a good enough option if we want to win titles.
 
Varane
Shaw
Greenwood
Bruno
Sancho

Rashford, who knows, cant stand him right now, but loved him not too long ago, can he get his head out his arse going forward? Not sure, his attitude and body language stinks at the minute from what i can see.
 
DeGea
Shaw
Varane
Lindelof
AWB**
McT**
Fred**
Donny
Sancho
Greenwood
Amad
Elanga

Thats who I would keep, few of them just as options to have. Would certainly want some better players for certain positions.

The rest can leave whilst I go about building a proper team.
 
DeGea and unless the others pull their fingers out, nobody else. Varane is injury prone, Maguire too slow, AWB lost at sea, Shaw looks confused, the rest are just star struck with Ronaldo who himself looks like he’s pissed off with it all.
 
Bilbo said:
None of us here are experts in the finances of football, but I would expect that major changes - let's call that 10 out and 10 in - would be incredibly expensive.

Loaning players out is all well and good but does not bring the immediate funds the club would need in order to reinvest. Factor in how hard it is to sell players on the salaries we pay, as well as the United tax we usually encounter trying to bring them in, and its just not realistic to expect a major overhaul in any one window.

As for whether major changes are actually needed, I still hold the opinion that bringing in a couple of quality, energetic midfielders could revitalise the entire squad, so for me if we could bring in 3 (2 midfielder and a striker) we would be able to move out 6 or 7 players that we wouldn't miss over a season. The squad instantly looks leaner and more balanced.
Click to expand...

I know I made the polint of Pep and Klopp bringing in about or over ten players, but by major changes, I dont think we need to do that number and certainly wont.

By major changes, its having a squad of 35 which is ridiculous. There are a few like Grant, Jones, Mata, Pereira who are only goin gto play a handful of games at most over a season and only in an injury/covid crisis. They are simply not needed, these handful of games could be taken by youngsters...yet only one is on loan. I agree om it being difficult for us to offload players due to the wages they are on......

BUT we have several players this window that are comign to the end of there contracts. and none of them should be offered a new one...yes Pogba being the big one. Why on earth should we be offering him a 4/5year contract of £80-100m when he hasnt had a single top top year consistently the whole time here, surely that football wise and financially is an investment that should be spent elsewhere.

Then there are other players like Martial and VDB who appear to WANT to leave, it isnt us having to try and offload them, its for them to comprimise. They shouldnt be so difficult to sell this summer.

This is the big thing for me. This summer is about TRIMMING an over bloated squad, that is the biggest part of the rebuild. It isnt 10 out 10 in. I am in part agreement with you there that we dont need lots of new players. There are 2/3 young players I think can be prominent within the squad next season (by that not pressure to be starting week in week out, but in and around the bench more often).

I have in other threads mentioned us selling/releasing up to 15 players (no wont happen of coruse). But doing that, for me we only needed five replacements, so incoming I am thinking along similar lines to you actually, as the five there were two centre backs as I would be getting rid of JOnes, Tuanzabe and Bailly personally.

There are in several positions some very good free transfers this summer and also some very promising and relatively cheap younger players. The only major signing I would like to see is one of the two central midfielders we sign as Bellingham/Rice/DejOng and a couple of other names would really improve us I feel defensively and offensively the difference they would make, totally agree wit you there.

I think the only thing really we are not in agreement on here is the sheer number of players should be going from the current squad
 
jesperjaap said:
I know I made the polint of Pep and Klopp bringing in about or over ten players, but by major changes, I dont think we need to do that number and certainly wont.

By major changes, its having a squad of 35 which is ridiculous. There are a few like Grant, Jones, Mata, Pereira who are only goin gto play a handful of games at most over a season and only in an injury/covid crisis. They are simply not needed, these handful of games could be taken by youngsters...yet only one is on loan. I agree om it being difficult for us to offload players due to the wages they are on......

BUT we have several players this window that are comign to the end of there contracts. and none of them should be offered a new one...yes Pogba being the big one. Why on earth should we be offering him a 4/5year contract of £80-100m when he hasnt had a single top top year consistently the whole time here, surely that football wise and financially is an investment that should be spent elsewhere.

Then there are other players like Martial and VDB who appear to WANT to leave, it isnt us having to try and offload them, its for them to comprimise. They shouldnt be so difficult to sell this summer.

This is the big thing for me. This summer is about TRIMMING an over bloated squad, that is the biggest part of the rebuild. It isnt 10 out 10 in. I am in part agreement with you there that we dont need lots of new players. There are 2/3 young players I think can be prominent within the squad next season (by that not pressure to be starting week in week out, but in and around the bench more often).

I have in other threads mentioned us selling/releasing up to 15 players (no wont happen of coruse). But doing that, for me we only needed five replacements, so incoming I am thinking along similar lines to you actually, as the five there were two centre backs as I would be getting rid of JOnes, Tuanzabe and Bailly personally.

There are in several positions some very good free transfers this summer and also some very promising and relatively cheap younger players. The only major signing I would like to see is one of the two central midfielders we sign as Bellingham/Rice/DejOng and a couple of other names would really improve us I feel defensively and offensively the difference they would make, totally agree wit you there.

I think the only thing really we are not in agreement on here is the sheer number of players should be going from the current squad
Click to expand...

Good post. Can't really disagree with any of that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a ruthless cull and see 10 go this summer, but it can't happen.

You make a good point regarding free transfers. This is something United never seem to exploit, and that's a shame. There is a lot of excellent value out there this summer.
 
mattunited1978 said:
Varane
Shaw
Greenwood
Bruno
Sancho

Rashford, who knows, cant stand him right now, but loved him not too long ago, can he get his head out his arse going forward? Not sure, his attitude and body language stinks at the minute from what i can see.
Click to expand...

Agree with all those selections as starting 11 going forward but I would also throw in Mctomminay, Fred, Lindelof and Bailly as squad players
 
We cant sell our players in a good season because of their wages and because no one wants them for some reason. Now on top of that everyone knows that they are whinge bags that will down tools and stab you in the back at every opportunity. Yeah its probably not all of them. Probably one or two. But if United ring you up and say oh do you want this player would a club not be thinking - 'fk that. Its probably the bad apples that they are trying to get rid of'. So out of contract or super, super bargain prices if we are lucky is the only way players will go. So thats means very few will leave.

Saying that Id keep none of them. Drastic I know. But I dont see a single player that you could bet your house on being a cornerstone of a title winning side. Maybe Sancho will step up, maybe Varane will, maybe Rashford. Who knows. But we have been saying this for years about lots of players and its never materialized. So if the manager says this player is not good enough Ill tend to believe them and wont be bothered if they go.
 
DDG - still one of the best keepers out there and wins points for us single handedly (literally).
Greenwood - one of the best talents in the game and I hope we can get to a point where he can actually flourish.
Sancho - we need to see what he's made of.
McTom - workhorse, passionate. Will end up one of those 'great servants to the club' types who aren't amazing but are pretty crucial for success.
Bruno - incredibly talented and works hard. Would see his best in a functioning team.
Varane - kind of player we need at CB. And another one next to him.
Lindelof - happy for him to stay as backup. Not desperately though, as the title says.

Torn on Rashford. I want that electric player back that we've seen glimpses of, but not sure we'd see it even in a well functioning team anymore.
The rest I'm just not arsed about. Shaw keeps looking good then regressing. Don't get why so many love VDB. Fred could be improved on so much (fine as backup). Ronaldo will be retired soon so not even counting him. We need to be lining up his replacement as he started.
 
DDG
Shaw
AWB
Varane
McTominay - perfect squad player.
Bruno
Sancho - haven't given up on him yet.
Greenwood
Rashford and Maguire under the condition they rediscover their best form.

Anyone else can leave whenever they want.
 
jesperjaap said:
T|hings are as bad as they seem. We have had two decent seasons in the last seven or eight, one of which was last year, which for me was skewed by other challengers being poor that year for various reasons. We have a squad of 35 players, some of which have been here a long time and have been nowhere near challenging for the title or champions league in any season.

We have one of the best stadiums in the world that has been neglected, one of the biggest net spends over the alst few years and highest wage bills in Europe, yet here we are and the majority of fans are struggling to name a five a side team within our squad of players they really dont want to go....it is that bad

I do think thankfully this summer there will be quite a lot of changes. There will be a new manager, there are likely to be quite a few outgoings as there is quite a high probability several if not all of Bailly, Lingard, Pogba, VDB, Martial, Mata and Cavani actually choose to leave let alone some of our fringe players liek Tuanzabe, Chong, Williams, Pereira and Chong who have come through the youth system. Thats 1/3 of the current squad already before even mentioning other names people would liek to see go.

The only stumbling block with a few coudl be wages elsewhere, but a few are out of contract.

I dont agree on it no tbeing financially viable either if we were shrewd. There are players such as Romagnoli, Kessie, Zakara, Kamara to name but a few that could be free transfers this summer and there are lots of talented younger players in other countries, that shoulodnt cost a fortune.....plus we do have the possibility of filling out players leaving with more prominent squad roles from our youth players such as Hannibal who have barely made a place on the bench.

I genuinly think there are 15/16 players we could move on this summer, make five shrewd signings, only maybe one being a big signing (In cm Rice/Bellingham/DeJong/Tchounamei for example). The overall net spend wouldnt be much at all if we did it cleverly, actually pretty much zero or below taking in the trikking of the squad and wages saved from quantity and a few big earners leaving.....and then we woul dhave a squad of 25 still
Click to expand...
imagine we moved on 15 or 16 players in the summer hahah this forum
 
Greenwood, Sancho, Bruno, Ronaldo, Varane, Shaw. Im indifferent about the rest.
 
Who I’d keep would be based on not being able to shift some due to wages just as much as wanting to keep some and also being realistic so I’d say as followed to keep,

De Gea, Henderson, AWB (for away games where we need to defend), Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay, Fernandes, Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood and Ronaldo from the first team as well as Laird, Mengi, Garner, Mejbri, Diallo and Shoretire from the under 23’s too.
 
hobbers said:
Because you think more people should want rid of him?

He's one of the few who is happy to take any role on the pitch, who doesn't seem to moan when he's not playing, who works hard in every game. And he's on around about half the wages of Mata. A fraction of the wages of the likes of Martial and Pogba.

He's not good enough to start games at a top four side but in terms of value for money for what we're paying him he's right at the top of our squad.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I meant. I actually think Fred has a better claim to be part of this squad in a total rebuild scenario as a back-up player for the squad. For all his faults in the passing game, he does have some strengths in pressing and winning the ball back. I am not sure what McTominay's strengths are supposed to be.

It's a fair point on his wages, which I had not considered, but even then I feel like he may not be good enough for the squad. He is consistently terrible in possession, makes far too many mistakes and opposing midfielders seem to just glide by him all the time.

Edit: I will also add that the points about not moaning and being happy taking any role is really the bare minimum we can ask players. It matters little when the quality is simply not there.
 
The fun would be restored if we actually did go for wholesale changes for once*

*in line with an actual vision
 
  1. Sancho
  2. Bruno
  3. Varane
  4. Fred (squad player)
  5. Rashford (only if it was 19/20 rashford)
The rest... We'd be better off if they were replaced.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.