How would you feel if Rooney smashed it at Everton?

I think its because he stuck around much longer than common sense would dictate that its all the more obvious. (Not entirely his fault LvG has a good deal of blame to shoulder for this one).

If he had left England to go somewhere else then the decline wouldnt be as painfully obvious to watch as we wouldnt be watching him week in week out.

Im sure Ashley Cole isnt half the player he was in his prime but no one really notices because he is in MLS.
When Ashley Cole was the same age Rooney is now he was a starter for Chelsea still. Rooney is finished because he didn't take care of himself as well as he could have. He's comparable to some of the greats in the 70's or 80's who were often finished as 30 but at least they had an excuse with it being common for a footballer to be a drunk and/or commonly smoke, even have a job on the side. Rooney rode his talents and didn't do the extra work which is why he was let and it's understandable that he looks even worse now being slightly older and having to play in midfield which he never could do in the first place.

United fans can be happy to have seen all the best of him.
 
If Mourinho is sacked, I hope the next one brings Rooney back. Honestly it can't make us worse... it just can't. I can't see how Sanchez is a better player at the moment.
I know what I'm submitting for POTY.
 
I know the loss was hard today but come on....

So hard that I really wondered about that. Can't blame people for laughing, really. But speaking with a clear head, I really think this season proves that last season Rooney wasn't the only problem and was being very much used by some of the fans as a lone scapegoat when some of the players who stayed for this season hasn't actually improved and some deserve as much scrutiny as Rooney was getting.. Most people are very angry with today's match anyway, my post can't be the worst thing said today on this forum :lol:
 
Were you weaned on whiskey?

I don't drink but sometimes when we have a really bad match I can lose notion of reality, probably should stay away from the internet for a full day after one of these performances
 
When Ashley Cole was the same age Rooney is now he was a starter for Chelsea still. Rooney is finished because he didn't take care of himself as well as he could have. He's comparable to some of the greats in the 70's or 80's who were often finished as 30 but at least they had an excuse with it being common for a footballer to be a drunk and/or commonly smoke, even have a job on the side. Rooney rode his talents and didn't do the extra work which is why he was let and it's understandable that he looks even worse now being slightly older and having to play in midfield which he never could do in the first place.

United fans can be happy to have seen all the best of him.

You don't know that, that's entirely subjective and easy to presume.

And anyway, Messi recently admitted he regularly vomited on the pitch because he had an unhealthy diet for most of his career.

There's a good chance Rooney is finished because he was a freak of nature at 15 years of age, he was built like a 26-27 year old, out-strengthening just about anyone he came up against. It's swings and roundabouts unfortunately and at the age of 30 he was like a man in his early 40's. Wkd's on a weekend or not.
 
Forcing himself to play through injuries relentlessly probably not helped anything.....he's admitted he would of backed out of 2006 right? I wouldn't be surprised if he'd admit that he should of not gone to 2010 either if he meant he'd be reliable statesman at 2014, and well more to the point, this summer, which yeah he's in no place to be going - retired or not.

Let's not forget the Bayern game he inevitably didn't finish. Probably the only "big" one that even come close to potentially paying off giving the booming start from his presence.

Theres 3 injuries that combined probably knocked a massive chunk off his peak career as a whole.

Probably should of taken up Yoga at some point in his mid to late 20's and I'm being partially serious.
 
You don't know that, that's entirely subjective and easy to presume.

And anyway, Messi recently admitted he regularly vomited on the pitch because he had an unhealthy diet for most of his career.

There's a good chance Rooney is finished because he was a freak of nature at 15 years of age, he was built like a 26-27 year old, out-strengthening just about anyone he came up against. It's swings and roundabouts unfortunately and at the age of 30 he was like a man in his early 40's. Wkd's on a weekend or not.
I do know that because he can hardly cut it anymore. If he had taken care of himself better he wouldn't have deteriorated in such a manner. He wasn't a freak of nature by any means.

Don't know what Messi has to do with Rooney. Besides goalkeepers there are few players that run less than Messi every match.
 
If he had taken care of himself better he wouldn't have deteriorated in such a manner.

How do you know that? It's well known Rooney was an incredibly hard-working member of the squad with respects to training, distance covered on the pitch, he always demanded to play every game. Yes he was a #lad and had moments in his career - could probably count them on 1 hand in a 15 year career, but he always took his football seriously, and as a result broke all kinds of scoring records.


He wasn't a freak of nature by any means.

Did you only start watching him from 2007? He was an absolute monster of a striker in his teens/early 20's, he would appear all over the pitch and bully defenders in their peaks and embarrass goalkeepers. If you don't think Rooney was a freak of nature at 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 years of age then I don't know who could be!

The fact he was built like a guy in his late 20's, 10 years too soon, resulted in him losing the peak of his powers 10 years earlier than many. Having a few less WKD's on his summer off won't change genetics I'm afraid.

Don't know what Messi has to do with Rooney.

You were stating that if Rooney 'looked after himself better' he would still be at his best/in his peak, so I said, Messi recently admitted that he didn't look after his diet for most of his career meaning he didn't look after himself for most of his career, so by your logic, he should be finished and playing for a mid-table Argentinian club like Rooney at Everton, yet what you don't seem to see, is because Messi was genetically built like a boy until his mid 20's it has helped him continue his peak to this day, despite vomiting on the pitch as a result of a bad diet despite being an athlete. My point is, you stating Rooney 'not looking after himself' has finished his career is nonsense. It's based on genetics. If you're built like a muscular man at the age of 15 it's going to catch up on you, no matter what diet.
 
How do you know that? It's well known Rooney was an incredibly hard-working member of the squad with respects to training, distance covered on the pitch, he always demanded to play every game. Yes he was a #lad but he always took his football seriously, and as a result broke all kinds of scoring records.
I was reading Alastair Campbell's new book 'Winners: And How They Succeed' last night (as a Cavanman our only hope is to experience victory vicariously through others) and I happened upon a really interesting story from back when Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney were teammates at Man United.

One could make a strong argument that in the beginning of their United careers Rooney was ahead of Ronaldo in terms of his journey to become a great all round player and, more specifically, a player who fitted well into a team.

However, even back then one Man United coach could see the different career trajectory they pair would take. Campbell recalls a visit to their training ground the chat he had with this unnamed member of staff:

I was saying how special they looked, even when training. But the coach said to me: 'Ronaldo could become the best player in the world. Rooney couldn't.'

He said that Ronaldo never ever stopped believing he could improve, whereas Rooney 'thinks he'd made it.'

Now don't get me wrong; Rooney has had a brilliant career and his achievements will unlikely be matched by another English player for a long long time but it's interesting to hear that even at the beginning, those in the know could see the ceilings both players had - or hadn't - placed on themselves.

It goes to show that even at the very top, attitude trumps natural ability every time.
 
Forcing himself to play through injuries relentlessly probably not helped anything.....he's admitted he would of backed out of 2006 right? I wouldn't be surprised if he'd admit that he should of not gone to 2010 either if he meant he'd be reliable statesman at 2014, and well more to the point, this summer, which yeah he's in no place to be going - retired or not.

Let's not forget the Bayern game he inevitably didn't finish. Probably the only "big" one that even come close to potentially paying off giving the booming start from his presence.

Theres 3 injuries that combined probably knocked a massive chunk off his peak career as a whole.

Probably should of taken up Yoga at some point in his mid to late 20's and I'm being partially serious.

This x100. He was rushed back from injury way too early on 3 occasions and got noticeably slower and less agile after each of them.
 
England would have won the European Championships in 2004 if he didnt break his foot. He was so fearless, so fast and the opposition seemed to shit themselves when he got on the ball. As good as he was for United, I dont think there was ever a better version of him than that 18 year bull that played in that tournament.
 
Not really relevant to his physical deterioration (which is mostly down to genetics for anyone except hardcore drug addicts)

Bollocks is that mostly down to genetics.

Staying fit and in shape really is a very simple task of eating well and exercising regularly. For a professional footballer who has no choice but to exercise regularly and has an army of physics and nutritionalists at their disposal to fall into disrepair like Rooney has, it’s not genetic, it’s down to ill discipline.
 
So he was shit in 2011-12 when he scored 35 goals?

Actually you said at least 7 years so he was shit before that as well in 2009-10 and 2010-11?
I am afraid there might be some truth to this ...

After the WC 2010 Rooney came back to the pre season in a shambolic state and was sent to the US for some much needed conditioning..

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/nov/05/wayne-rooney-nike-town-manchester-united

Also here you can see how his life has been ..
And by the way he was 24 in 2010 ..

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3446...up-to-brunette-beauty-in-3am-boozing-session/

At that time Fergie said he had an injury which was not true at all , in 2012 he was fined 200k for being drunk .

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/picture-of-wayne-rooney-night-out-157488

in 2015 it was also reported that his lack of involvement was down to Rooney being drunk in training. .

His natural talent was never in doubt but his professionalism was. . Without a shadow of a doubt I can safely say that his lifestyle choices have bitten him hard in the ass.. Rooney has been in a steep decline for the last 5-7 years . It was very clear in Fergie's last season when Rooney was benched by the gaffer and replaced by Welbeck . He has been done at top level for many years .
 
Bollocks is that mostly down to genetics.

Staying fit and in shape really is a very simple task of eating well and exercising regularly. For a professional footballer who has no choice but to exercise regularly and has an army of physics and nutritionalists at their disposal to fall into disrepair like Rooney has, it’s not genetic, it’s down to ill discipline.
Really? So he has been eating several McDonald meals, downed a sixpack and smoked a pack every day without anyone knowing? It would take a hell of a lot to decline several years before other athletes.
 
Bollocks is that mostly down to genetics.

Staying fit and in shape really is a very simple task of eating well and exercising regularly. For a professional footballer who has no choice but to exercise regularly and has an army of physics and nutritionalists at their disposal to fall into disrepair like Rooney has, it’s not genetic, it’s down to ill discipline.

100% this.
 
Really? So he has been eating several McDonald meals, downed a sixpack and smoked a pack every day without anyone knowing? It would take a hell of a lot to decline several years before other athletes.

You can throw an extreme out there to ridicule the idea but it doesn’t take an extreme to reach the position he finds himself in now.

As for drinking, there has been various reports of him sinking 6–10 pints on a session and that’s not an easy task unless you’re a regular drinker.

There’s plenty of pictures of him smoking, but I doubt it’s a habit, it’s just that the 10 or 15 times he’s had a cigarette, he’s been photographed. Bit unlucky that.

As for the weight he piled on each summer and his shocking fitness levels, it’s definitely down to his genes. It’s not like you need to have a huge calorie surplus to put on weight, it just happens magically.
 
Honestly with Rooney other than his indiscipline, because he always loved the booze and occasional fag after all, I think it's also down to the fact that he's simply played for such a long time in such an intense and physical demanding league, never having proper rest periods or winter breaks and the constant impact and physical violence every game. With the added problem that Rooney's drive and explosivity were one of his standout qualities. But a slightly more technical player like Van Persie, a bit less reliant on explosivity and by all acounts a very dedicated professional is another one who looked completely shot after 11 seasons in the PL.

Somehow I suspect that if Robben or Ronaldo would've spent 10+ years in England instead of getting out early, they wouldn't be as fit and explosive as they are now in their thirties. But this is just a suspicion.
 
Watched his 'All the Goals' on MUTV the other night, jesus he scored some bangers. Those two at City in Fergie's last season were absolutely immense. So clinical when it mattered in a big game.
 
Really? So he has been eating several McDonald meals, downed a sixpack and smoked a pack every day without anyone knowing? It would take a hell of a lot to decline several years before other athletes.

It amazes me people still don't realise how important diet and discipline is in modern football. Rooney obviously didn't down a six pack a day (to use that ridiculous quote) but he did not live as clean a lifestyle as he could have. That's the point - with someone like Ronaldo you'll never hear someone say 'Imagine how good he could have been', he is constantly at peak condition. 100% of the time. Doesn't drink, super healthy, super disciplined and arguably the GOAT.

With Rooney, I always think 'what if?'. He was a documented boozer, smoker and was generally unhealthy considering he is a professional athlete. He had some outstanding seasons and had so much natural talent it was unbelievable but I can't remember ever seeing him in good shape and whilst he still had a glittering career by normal standards he'll never be talked about in the same company as the true greats.
 
I mean what did we expect? He's a thick scouser who got a lucky break from a lifetime of poverty and crime (hooray for sweeping accusations).

He was never gonna be a perfect role model in how to look after your body, especially when he was a stocky lad to begin with.
 
I am afraid there might be some truth to this ...

After the WC 2010 Rooney came back to the pre season in a shambolic state and was sent to the US for some much needed conditioning..

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/nov/05/wayne-rooney-nike-town-manchester-united

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/nov/05/wayne-rooney-nike-town-manchester-united
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/nov/05/wayne-rooney-nike-town-manchester-united

Where does it state in that article he came back for pre-season in a shambolic state? And i'm wondering if he came back in July in a shambolic condition as you say, why did the club wait 4 months to send him for conditioning?

Other players have been sent to the US to recover form injuries and get their fitness back, so i don't necessarily think theres anything in this article to suggest unprofessionalism.

At that time Fergie said he had an injury which was not true at all , in 2012 he was fined 200k for being drunk .

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/picture-of-wayne-rooney-night-out-157488

in 2015 it was also reported that his lack of involvement was down to Rooney being drunk in training. .

I imagine he did say he had an injury, he always protected his players. If i remember correctly he said Evans was injured as well.

His natural talent was never in doubt but his professionalism was. . Without a shadow of a doubt I can safely say that his lifestyle choices have bitten him hard in the ass.. Rooney has been in a steep decline for the last 5-7 years . It was very clear in Fergie's last season when Rooney was benched by the gaffer and replaced by Welbeck . He has been done at top level for many years .

I don't think any of us on the outside can safely say we know anything for certain about just how professional Rooney was during his time at United. Certainly Rooney has had episodes and been disciplined by Ferguson and possibly his successors. But while i don't think Rooney was an ultra professional and looked after himself the way say Giggs did. I also highly doubt he was as unprofessional as some of you seem to think. If he was he wouldn't have played for Alex Ferguson for 9 years, he just wouldn't have lasted. Ferguson wouldn't have fought to keep him in 2010 if he was so unprofessional, he would have seen it as the perfect time to move him on as he did many other big names.

Not looking after himself as well as he possibly could have has no doubt contributed to his decline over the last 4-5 years. But some players just lose it, Shevchenko, Torres and Raul all declined from their previous levels before 30. Like Rooney they all played lots of top level football from 16-17 onwards. Some players just hit their peak early and decline early, Rooney for me falls into this category. Unless of course Shevchenko, Torres and Raul were all out eating cheese burgers and boozing every weekend as well.
 
As for drinking, there has been various reports of him sinking 6–10 pints on a session and that’s not an easy task unless you’re a regular drinker.

What do you base that on?
 
You can throw an extreme out there to ridicule the idea but it doesn’t take an extreme to reach the position he finds himself in now.

As for drinking, there has been various reports of him sinking 6–10 pints on a session and that’s not an easy task unless you’re a regular drinker.

There’s plenty of pictures of him smoking, but I doubt it’s a habit, it’s just that the 10 or 15 times he’s had a cigarette, he’s been photographed. Bit unlucky that.

As for the weight he piled on each summer and his shocking fitness levels, it’s definitely down to his genes. It’s not like you need to have a huge calorie surplus to put on weight, it just happens magically.
The occasional smoke, drink, and putting on weight for 4 weeks a year doesn't take your legs away 5 years early. Any man can down at least 6 pints in a night. It's a comfortable fiction that our destiny or our aging is in our own hands. It would be nice if anyone could be Ronaldo if they just worked extremely hard every day. But it's not true.

It's a well researched phenomenon in psychology that we tend to attribute people's misfortunes or bad decisions etc to some character flaw in them (and the opposite for ourselves). But usually the cause was outside their control. I'm not saying Rooney was without fault for his early decline. Far from it. I'm saying that the smoking, drinking and over-eating during the summer was not the main reason.
 
When Ashley Cole was the same age Rooney is now he was a starter for Chelsea still. Rooney is finished because he didn't take care of himself as well as he could have. He's comparable to some of the greats in the 70's or 80's who were often finished as 30 but at least they had an excuse with it being common for a footballer to be a drunk and/or commonly smoke, even have a job on the side. Rooney rode his talents and didn't do the extra work which is why he was let and it's understandable that he looks even worse now being slightly older and having to play in midfield which he never could do in the first place.

United fans can be happy to have seen all the best of him.
Fair point but also when Rooney was 16 he had the body of a 20 year old. His body has always been ahead of his time. That aside, i dont think Rooney cares much. 33 years old, multi millionaire, still bringing home bags of cash, still playing prem football, most goals scored for United and England and won every club trophy possible. Great career, great talent and I really hope he has a few more years woth Everton. Bar his last 6 years for us, was a phenomenal player
 
The occasional smoke, drink, and putting on weight for 4 weeks a year doesn't take your legs away 5 years early. Any man can down at least 6 pints in a night. It's a comfortable fiction that our destiny or our aging is in our own hands. It would be nice if anyone could be Ronaldo if they just worked extremely hard every day. But it's not true.
Why do professional football clubs and all serious athletes hire nutritionists and dietitians then? Why don't dietitians and nutritionist tell players "to be honest, you can eat the perfect diet and look after your body in exemplary fashion, or have 6 pints and a kebab every night, it won't make any difference either way"?
 

Thanks for that quote @Pexbo , I read it when the book was released.

Comparing Rooney and Ronaldo's physiques isn't exactly a fair one.

Two completely different natural physical builds.

Ronaldo came to United looking like a little boy. He is genetically a lean, skinny person. Now he's in his 30's he's gone back to his more natural physique to aid his pace, fitness and agility on the pitch. Rooney came to United at 18 looking like a 30 year old man. He too has gone back to his natural physique, which is short, stocky and heavy, and therefore incredibly difficult to naturally trim down, naturally breeze around the pitch and keep up with play.

If Rooney and Ronaldo had identical diets, Rooney would still be stockier and heavier, Ronaldo would be leaner and be more agile around the pitch.... It's natural genetics. Cutting out WKD Blue and the odd Kebab in a week has probably cost Rooney about 5-10 goals in his career.
 
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Why do professional football clubs and all serious athletes hire nutritionists and dietitians then? Why don't dietitians and nutritionist tell players "to be honest, you can eat the perfect diet and look after your body in exemplary fashion, or have 6 pints and a kebab every night, it won't make any difference either way"?

So how did Messi become one of if not the GOAT despite having an unhealthy diet all of his career that would result in him vomiting various times on the pitch?

Rooney's legs have gone because he was one of the worlds best at 18 and had a muscular mans build at 15. Rooney's genetics naturally dictate the general body shape he will have.
 
Zlatan in his 30s has arguably played some of his best football. Now this is no comparison, more of a case study that it can happen.

Rooney has not shown real form for about 3 seasons so it feels unlikely that it will suddenly come back, but that said a new routine, a change of fitness programme, maybe a reduction in pressure and competition and Rooney might regain some form.

So the question how would you feel if Rooney found some 9/10, 11/12 form and scored over 30 goals in each of the next 3 seasons. I'll leave it at 3 seasons as at 35 few go on from there and it looks an ask for Rooney to even get that far.

So let's call it him making an unlikely Everton ton?

I personally would be thrilled and happy for him. It would be sad he couldn't find that form for us, but he is a legend and it'd be nice to see his career be more than it has been in the last couple of years.

The main disappointment would probably be the hindsight of saying how do we have a player of his history, marketability and potential skill and get no money for him, unless of course you believe the £25m valuation which would be fair.
How would we feel if Rooney smashed 30 goals in each of next 3 seasons? hmmm..... United are cursed!
 
So how did Messi become one of if not the GOAT despite having an unhealthy diet all of his career that would result in him vomiting various times on the pitch?
It is well-known that Messi completely changed his diet. Messi went to a borderline vegan diet from the usual South American heavily meat-focused diet that he had before. Similar to what Novak Djokovic did. He didn't deny himself his favourite foods for a laugh, or because he's masochistic, he did it because he wants to be the best.

It's only in football where people would say it doesn't matter what you put in your body. In all other sports, it's completed accepted that this is a critical aspect of being a professional athlete. In fact, it's the most fundamental aspect of human health for everyday people, never mind professional sportsmen and women.
 
It is well-known that Messi completely changed his diet. Messi went to a borderline vegan diet from the usual South American heavily meat-focused diet that he had before. Similar to what Novak Djokovic did. He didn't deny himself his favourite foods for a laugh, or because he's masochistic, he did it because he wants to be the best.

It's only in football where people would say it doesn't matter what you put in your body. In all other sports, it's completed accepted that this is a critical aspect of being a professional athlete. In fact, it's the most fundamental aspect of human health for everyday people, never mind professional sportsmen and women.

No, it’s nothing to do with being on a heavy meat diet.... he basically had a very poor diet for a professional athlete.

Taken from https://www.eurosport.com/football/...rowing-up-on-the-pitch_sto6684025/story.shtml

Messi: "I ate badly for many years: chocolates, fizzy drinks, and everything," said Messi.

" That is what made me throw up during games. Now I look after myself better. I eat fish, meat, salads. Everything is organised and taken care of."
 
No, it’s nothing to do with being on a heavy meat diet.... he basically had a very poor diet for a professional athlete.

Taken from https://www.eurosport.com/football/...rowing-up-on-the-pitch_sto6684025/story.shtml

Messi: "I ate badly for many years: chocolates, fizzy drinks, and everything," said Messi.

" That is what made me throw up during games. Now I look after myself better. I eat fish, meat, salads. Everything is organised and taken care of."

And it took its toll on him. As good as he still is now, he is no longer as fast/explosive as he was in his 09-12 peak, and his big game performance has declined as a result, when he once took the mickey out of the best defences around on a regular basis. Compare that to Ronaldo, who is older and less naturally talented, and yet got better in big games even as he ages and lost some of his agility/pace.
 
No, it’s nothing to do with being on a heavy meat diet.... he basically had a very poor diet for a professional athlete.

Taken from https://www.eurosport.com/football/...rowing-up-on-the-pitch_sto6684025/story.shtml

Messi: "I ate badly for many years: chocolates, fizzy drinks, and everything," said Messi.

" That is what made me throw up during games. Now I look after myself better. I eat fish, meat, salads. Everything is organised and taken care of."
That's really interesting, I assumed the vomiting was nerves or a condition. This doesn't help the Rooney defending though, if even the greatest had to get serious mid 20s
 
Obviously genetics played a role. All the more reason he should’ve looked after himself. Paul Scholes, who you could also say was genetically disadvantaged even more than Rooney, recently said Rooney didn’t look after himself properly.
 
It's common sense. If you have the tendency to be fat, you work harder to maintain shape.
Genetics is a poor excuse when you still don't take care of yourself.
 
The sad thing about current Rooney is how pointless he is now. He's not remotely newsworthy unless he's getting pissed or cheating on his wife.

32 year old. It's nothing.