How much of a chance will Erik give young players here?

[thisisnottaken1]

• Amad Diallo: Total matches/minutes: 12/469. 2 goals, 1 assist. 9 Premier league appearances, 387 minutes. 3 FA Cup appearances, 82 minutes.
• Hannibal Mejbri: Total matches/minutes: 10/327. 1 goal, 3 assists. 5 Premier league appearance, 130 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 61 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 1 minute. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 136 minutes.
• Alvaro Fernandez: Went on loan and got sold for 5.1m.
• Kobbie Mainoo: Total matches/minutes: 35/2629. 5 goals, 3 assists. 24 Premier league appearances, 1940 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 42 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 422 minutes.
• Alejandro Garnacho: Total matches/minutes: 50/3574. 10 goals, 5 assists. 36 Premier league appearances, 2576 minutes. 6 CL appearances, 300 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 543 minutes. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 155 minutes.
• Willy Kambwala: Total matches/minutes: 10/341. 1 assist. 8 Premier League appearances, 326 minutes. 2 FA Cup appearances, 15 minutes.
• Facundo Pellistri: Total matches/minutes: 12/366. 9 Premier League appearances, 165 minutes. 3 CL appearances, 108 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 3 minutes. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 90 minutes.
• Daniel Gore: Total matches/minutes: 2/30. 1 Premier League appearance, 1 minute. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 29 minutes.

I'm not sure if ETH is due any special praise for bringing through Mainoo. He is a generational talent and I'm sure the whole academy staff were well aware of how good he was. Erik did say at the end of the summer transfer window when he first joined that if we couldn't sign a FDJ profile, we'd have to make one. At the time I was thinking of Zidane Iqbal, but Mainoo is the one. And I don't think he was made, I think he was there, developing already. They've done a good job in not introducing him too early (i.e. too much last season) but he's also had a couple of injuries to contend with. With Garnacho he went from 34 appearances, last season, and 1242 minutes, to 50 appearances and almost triple the amount of minutes. I remember early in the season people were doubting him (first two games) and that his decision making was awful (still a work in progress) but he's been one of our best players and certainly the most dangerous attacker we have.

Amad's development has been completely neglected and I think Erik has been hiding behind his injuries this season, when in reality Amad could have played a lot more football. And he showed at the tail end of the season that he was a dangerous attacker, who could also help in keeping possession.

Alvaro Fernandez is another situation that's a bit perplexing, especially as we went for an expensive loan signing in Reguilon to cover the injury to Malacia (and then Shaw too), but let him go in January counting on Shaw and Malacia both returning to full fitness. Loaning out Fernandez was only compounded by selling him for a meagre 5m. First he went on a failed loan to Granada, but then shipped out on loan again to Benfica (more than two weeks after terminating Reguilon's loan). Fans of Benfica seem quite surprised at getting such a talented young player on the cheap.

Pellistri wanted to go out on loan in order to continue his development but got nothing close to what he must have expected and then shipped out at the end of the January window on loan to a struggling Granada, who finished bottom of La Liga.

Hannibal Mejbri in my view could have quite obviously been utilised this season in the prolonged absence of Mason Mount and to provide energy when Mainoo was subbed, which always resulted in the team dropping down a level. It seems it was another disastrous loan where the coach had a spat with him (or a teammate) early on and he only played 6 times for Sevilla, getting 100 minutes in total.

This makes me not only question ETH's bravery in fielding youngsters but also the competence of our loan manager and the staff who oversee loans for players at a very delicate phase in their footballing development.

Like I said in the OP at the start of the season, it's not just about "good enough, old enough" but if you keep seeing underperforming players play ahead of someone who might show the required hunger and drive to take their chance and elevate the team performance, which I'd argue we saw with Amad at the end of the season, with Garnacho and Mainoo for the whole season though they of course played too much too, because the alternatives were levels below. Which is another way of looking at their registered minutes.

Kambwala may not turn out to be good enough, it is too early to judge him, but he did have the special situation of being an actual centre back when we were without a single fully fit senior centre back and played a likely not fit enough Casemiro there alongside a definitely not fit enough Evans.

Harry Amass, despite his tender age, might also have seen some minutes given we had no left back from January onwards.

All in all I think Erik lacks courage in playing young players. If they are not working hard enough tracking back or pressing, I completely understand it. But I think it's more a reluctance on his part to gamble. And if you've got a shite hand, why would you not.

If he stays next season I hope he will be told to bring more youngsters through here and there - I'd treat the Europa League like the EFL Cup, but I'm in the minority here - and if another manager comes in I hope it is someone with a track record of unearthing youngsters and putting them into the team and developing them.

Loaning and selling Fernández was so stupid. What were we thinking?

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

Loaning and selling Fernández was so stupid. What were we thinking?

The player has a say in all of this as well. Fernandez wanted first team experience so the club allowed him to leave.

Too many people blaming a manager for decisions that are not totally in their span of control.

 

[romufc]

The player has a say in all of this as well. Fernandez wanted first team experience so the club allowed him to leave.

Too many people blaming a manager for decisions that are not totally in their span of control.

He is playing for Benfica, not Real Madrid either. We overreact so badly sometimes its a joke.

Not only did we sell him, we retain clauses that allow us to get him back if we need to in the future.

Finally, the club needs to make a decision, if he wants to start when we have Malacia and Shaw, he is 3rd choice at the moment. Is he willing to play 2nd fiddle? maybe not.

The club probably also looked long term and thought, oh look we have Harry Amas coming through too and we rate him higher than Alvaro.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

• Amad Diallo: Total matches/minutes: 12/469. 2 goals, 1 assist. 9 Premier league appearances, 387 minutes. 3 FA Cup appearances, 82 minutes.
• Hannibal Mejbri: Total matches/minutes: 10/327. 1 goal, 3 assists. 5 Premier league appearance, 130 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 61 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 1 minute. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 136 minutes.
• Alvaro Fernandez: Went on loan and got sold for 5.1m.
• Kobbie Mainoo: Total matches/minutes: 35/2629. 5 goals, 3 assists. 24 Premier league appearances, 1940 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 42 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 422 minutes.
• Alejandro Garnacho: Total matches/minutes: 50/3574. 10 goals, 5 assists. 36 Premier league appearances, 2576 minutes. 6 CL appearances, 300 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 543 minutes. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 155 minutes.
• Willy Kambwala: Total matches/minutes: 10/341. 1 assist. 8 Premier League appearances, 326 minutes. 2 FA Cup appearances, 15 minutes.
• Facundo Pellistri: Total matches/minutes: 12/366. 9 Premier League appearances, 165 minutes. 3 CL appearances, 108 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 3 minutes. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 90 minutes.
• Daniel Gore: Total matches/minutes: 2/30. 1 Premier League appearance, 1 minute. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 29 minutes.

I'm not sure if ETH is due any special praise for bringing through Mainoo. He is a generational talent and I'm sure the whole academy staff were well aware of how good he was. Erik did say at the end of the summer transfer window when he first joined that if we couldn't sign a FDJ profile, we'd have to make one. At the time I was thinking of Zidane Iqbal, but Mainoo is the one. And I don't think he was made, I think he was there, developing already. They've done a good job in not introducing him too early (i.e. too much last season) but he's also had a couple of injuries to contend with. With Garnacho he went from 34 appearances, last season, and 1242 minutes, to 50 appearances and almost triple the amount of minutes. I remember early in the season people were doubting him (first two games) and that his decision making was awful (still a work in progress) but he's been one of our best players and certainly the most dangerous attacker we have.

Amad's development has been completely neglected and I think Erik has been hiding behind his injuries this season, when in reality Amad could have played a lot more football. And he showed at the tail end of the season that he was a dangerous attacker, who could also help in keeping possession.

Alvaro Fernandez is another situation that's a bit perplexing, especially as we went for an expensive loan signing in Reguilon to cover the injury to Malacia (and then Shaw too), but let him go in January counting on Shaw and Malacia both returning to full fitness. Loaning out Fernandez was only compounded by selling him for a meagre 5m. First he went on a failed loan to Granada, but then shipped out on loan again to Benfica (more than two weeks after terminating Reguilon's loan). Fans of Benfica seem quite surprised at getting such a talented young player on the cheap.

Pellistri wanted to go out on loan in order to continue his development but got nothing close to what he must have expected and then shipped out at the end of the January window on loan to a struggling Granada, who finished bottom of La Liga.

Hannibal Mejbri in my view could have quite obviously been utilised this season in the prolonged absence of Mason Mount and to provide energy when Mainoo was subbed, which always resulted in the team dropping down a level. It seems it was another disastrous loan where the coach had a spat with him (or a teammate) early on and he only played 6 times for Sevilla, getting 100 minutes in total.

This makes me not only question ETH's bravery in fielding youngsters but also the competence of our loan manager and the staff who oversee loans for players at a very delicate phase in their footballing development.

Like I said in the OP at the start of the season, it's not just about "good enough, old enough" but if you keep seeing underperforming players play ahead of someone who might show the required hunger and drive to take their chance and elevate the team performance, which I'd argue we saw with Amad at the end of the season, with Garnacho and Mainoo for the whole season though they of course played too much too, because the alternatives were levels below. Which is another way of looking at their registered minutes.

Kambwala may not turn out to be good enough, it is too early to judge him, but he did have the special situation of being an actual centre back when we were without a single fully fit senior centre back and played a likely not fit enough Casemiro there alongside a definitely not fit enough Evans.

Harry Amass, despite his tender age, might also have seen some minutes given we had no left back from January onwards.

All in all I think Erik lacks courage in playing young players. If they are not working hard enough tracking back or pressing, I completely understand it. But I think it's more a reluctance on his part to gamble. And if you've got a shite hand, why would you not.

If he stays next season I hope he will be told to bring more youngsters through here and there - I'd treat the Europa League like the EFL Cup, but I'm in the minority here - and if another manager comes in I hope it is someone with a track record of unearthing youngsters and putting them into the team and developing them.

You've named eight players in your stats there.

That's half a squad. There could be loads of reasons why decisions are made that the average fan doesn't know about.

I think EtH has plenty of courage and desire to give youth players a chance. The stats prove it.

Youth players have played more minutes under the manager this season than any other team. Our average of youth players in the squad this season is higher than any other team and the highest for United since 2003/04. So that includes Ferguson's last ten years and every other manager since.

At the end of the FA Cup Final his interaction with the young players and their responses clearly showed that he has good relationships with them.

Finally, last season was one of the worst in recent years...where the manager was under constant criticism from every direction...including United fans. He had to get the right balance or there was a massive danger of negatively impacting a young players career.

There are very few players that United have let go who has then gone on to have a really good career. In other words, the manager and the coaches know what they are doing.

 

[romufc]

• Amad Diallo: Total matches/minutes: 12/469. 2 goals, 1 assist. 9 Premier league appearances, 387 minutes. 3 FA Cup appearances, 82 minutes.
• Hannibal Mejbri: Total matches/minutes: 10/327. 1 goal, 3 assists. 5 Premier league appearance, 130 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 61 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 1 minute. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 136 minutes.
• Alvaro Fernandez: Went on loan and got sold for 5.1m.
• Kobbie Mainoo: Total matches/minutes: 35/2629. 5 goals, 3 assists. 24 Premier league appearances, 1940 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 42 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 422 minutes.
• Alejandro Garnacho: Total matches/minutes: 50/3574. 10 goals, 5 assists. 36 Premier league appearances, 2576 minutes. 6 CL appearances, 300 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 543 minutes. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 155 minutes.
• Willy Kambwala: Total matches/minutes: 10/341. 1 assist. 8 Premier League appearances, 326 minutes. 2 FA Cup appearances, 15 minutes.
• Facundo Pellistri: Total matches/minutes: 12/366. 9 Premier League appearances, 165 minutes. 3 CL appearances, 108 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 3 minutes. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 90 minutes.
• Daniel Gore: Total matches/minutes: 2/30. 1 Premier League appearance, 1 minute. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 29 minutes.

I'm not sure if ETH is due any special praise for bringing through Mainoo. He is a generational talent and I'm sure the whole academy staff were well aware of how good he was. Erik did say at the end of the summer transfer window when he first joined that if we couldn't sign a FDJ profile, we'd have to make one. At the time I was thinking of Zidane Iqbal, but Mainoo is the one. And I don't think he was made, I think he was there, developing already. They've done a good job in not introducing him too early (i.e. too much last season) but he's also had a couple of injuries to contend with. With Garnacho he went from 34 appearances, last season, and 1242 minutes, to 50 appearances and almost triple the amount of minutes. I remember early in the season people were doubting him (first two games) and that his decision making was awful (still a work in progress) but he's been one of our best players and certainly the most dangerous attacker we have.

Amad's development has been completely neglected and I think Erik has been hiding behind his injuries this season, when in reality Amad could have played a lot more football. And he showed at the tail end of the season that he was a dangerous attacker, who could also help in keeping possession.

Alvaro Fernandez is another situation that's a bit perplexing, especially as we went for an expensive loan signing in Reguilon to cover the injury to Malacia (and then Shaw too), but let him go in January counting on Shaw and Malacia both returning to full fitness. Loaning out Fernandez was only compounded by selling him for a meagre 5m. First he went on a failed loan to Granada, but then shipped out on loan again to Benfica (more than two weeks after terminating Reguilon's loan). Fans of Benfica seem quite surprised at getting such a talented young player on the cheap.

Pellistri wanted to go out on loan in order to continue his development but got nothing close to what he must have expected and then shipped out at the end of the January window on loan to a struggling Granada, who finished bottom of La Liga.

Hannibal Mejbri in my view could have quite obviously been utilised this season in the prolonged absence of Mason Mount and to provide energy when Mainoo was subbed, which always resulted in the team dropping down a level. It seems it was another disastrous loan where the coach had a spat with him (or a teammate) early on and he only played 6 times for Sevilla, getting 100 minutes in total.

This makes me not only question ETH's bravery in fielding youngsters but also the competence of our loan manager and the staff who oversee loans for players at a very delicate phase in their footballing development.

Like I said in the OP at the start of the season, it's not just about "good enough, old enough" but if you keep seeing underperforming players play ahead of someone who might show the required hunger and drive to take their chance and elevate the team performance, which I'd argue we saw with Amad at the end of the season, with Garnacho and Mainoo for the whole season though they of course played too much too, because the alternatives were levels below. Which is another way of looking at their registered minutes.

Kambwala may not turn out to be good enough, it is too early to judge him, but he did have the special situation of being an actual centre back when we were without a single fully fit senior centre back and played a likely not fit enough Casemiro there alongside a definitely not fit enough Evans.

Harry Amass, despite his tender age, might also have seen some minutes given we had no left back from January onwards.

All in all I think Erik lacks courage in playing young players. If they are not working hard enough tracking back or pressing, I completely understand it. But I think it's more a reluctance on his part to gamble. And if you've got a shite hand, why would you not.

If he stays next season I hope he will be told to bring more youngsters through here and there - I'd treat the Europa League like the EFL Cup, but I'm in the minority here - and if another manager comes in I hope it is someone with a track record of unearthing youngsters and putting them into the team and developing them.

Looks like you have failed to watch this season where we have given the most minutes to youngsters in the whole league.

I find it funny when fans say, so when a player is introduced into the team like Mainoo, no credit goes to the manager because he was "there developing already". I mean it was obvious, Ten Hag was grooming him, from the conversations he had with him in the final of the league cup.

He was introduced to the first team played in pre season. Now, fast forward post injury, Ten Hag gave him his debut in an away game where his job is on the line, if that isnt courage, I dont know what you'd call that.

Away at West Ham, handing Kambwala his first start, was a sign of lacking courage? Starting him against Liverpool.

Mejbri was given chances but he done nothing, went on loan and did nothing there, clearly had attitude issues and wasnt good enough.

Pellestri has had multiple loans where he has not been good enough either.

Amad has a knee injury that kept him out and you cant just put the youngster in after an injury, he maybe took longer introducing him, he still played him at the end of the season.

Lastly, you cant just put 5/6 youngsters in the team, especially if the team is not firing, it can have a massive impact on their confidence and development.

Ten Hag has probably given more kids a chance than any other manager has.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

The player has a say in all of this as well. Fernandez wanted first team experience so the club allowed him to leave.

Too many people blaming a manager for decisions that are not totally in their span of control.

That’s fair. I will admit that I made a bit of an overreaction.

 

[GlazersHater]

Loaning and selling Fernández was so stupid. What were we thinking?

Not really, we obviously didn't knew we'd lost Shaw and Malacia almost for the entire season. Maybe we should have kept Fernandez instead of loaning in Reguilon, but people here talk as if Fernandez is showing impressive levels when the fact is he barely played with Granada and again barely played with Benfica.

Obviously Benfica saw potential in him and that's why they decided to buy him but we have a buyback clause so if he makes it big we can always get him back.

 

[Red00012]

Loaning and selling Fernández was so stupid. What were we thinking?

Is all what you got from that post ?

 

[Bastian]

Looks like you have failed to watch this season where we have given the most minutes to youngsters in the whole league.

I find it funny when fans say, so when a player is introduced into the team like Mainoo, no credit goes to the manager because he was "there developing already". I mean it was obvious, Ten Hag was grooming him, from the conversations he had with him in the final of the league cup.

He was introduced to the first team played in pre season. Now, fast forward post injury, Ten Hag gave him his debut in an away game where his job is on the line, if that isnt courage, I dont know what you'd call that.

Away at West Ham, handing Kambwala his first start, was a sign of lacking courage? Starting him against Liverpool.

Mejbri was given chances but he done nothing, went on loan and did nothing there, clearly had attitude issues and wasnt good enough.

Pellestri has had multiple loans where he has not been good enough either.

Amad has a knee injury that kept him out and you cant just put the youngster in after an injury, he maybe took longer introducing him, he still played him at the end of the season.

Lastly, you cant just put 5/6 youngsters in the team, especially if the team is not firing, it can have a massive impact on their confidence and development.

Ten Hag has probably given more kids a chance than any other manager has.

I'll concede that I was too harsh in terms of Mainoo. Yes, he does deserve credit for his development. You are right. And Erik did show some faith in Kambwala.

I think you are guilty of the same thing I was though, seeing things a bit polarised. Pellistri wanted to go on loan and was told to stay, that didn't work out well for him did it? And he's a player who was being picked for his national team regardless. With Mejbri I think there is zero nuance to your view there. He's a bit of a hot head but I think that clouds people's judgement of his actual footballing ability. I don't know if you actually watched his performances for us this season but his work ethic was second to none and the kid already has talent, so his development should be a major concern for United, whether the club wants to make him a United player or sell him. I suggest that loans have not been properly thought through here. And Amad was fit for loads of matches (look at how often he's on the bench, not there like Varane half-fit, but ready to play). Then when he does play he's a glimmer of hope.

This is not an Erik-out thread, I've been more consistently behind the manager than the majority on here, though I've had my doubts and I was also excited by the prospect of McKenna. As is, I think staying with Erik is a lot more feasible than appointing Tuchel, Poch, RDZ, Southgate or whomever else has been linked recently. But I would like him to show more faith in young players when senior players are simply not performing.

The caveat @Mr. MUJAC here is that Antony was unavailable for selection for quite some time and Rashford's form went through the floor, while Garnacho showed he was a bright spark and unlike Rashford he tracked back while still busting a gut for any slight opportunity to attack. His enormous match time this season is both about him taking his chance, the manager keeping faith in him, and us not having alternatives what with Martial injured all season, Rashford having his worst season to date, Antony having troubles on and off the pitch, and Amad first being injured and then simply unfancied.

Mainoo also did play after taking his chances, time and again, proving undroppable, and Casemiro losing his legs, Amrabat showing he was ill-equipped for this league, Eriksen over the hill, Mejbri shipped out, Donny shipped out, McTominay seen as #10 hybrid of some sort.

I'm not comparing this to other teams, frankly I feel it is a bit irrelevant. United is the team in the league with the proudest academy record and Erik does go some way to continue that. But I still have concerns with regards to quite a few players I think are either good enough to play or good enough to merit the chance to prove so.

 

[romufc]

This is not an Erik-out thread, I've been more consistently behind the manager than the majority on here, though I've had my doubts and I was also excited by the prospect of McKenna. As is, I think staying with Erik is a lot more feasible than appointing Tuchel, Poch, RDZ, Southgate or whomever else has been linked recently. But I would like him to show more faith in young players when senior players are simply not performing.

Fair enough. I think it would be difficult for a manager to keep bringing youth players in knowing they will be inconsistent, when his job was on the line for majority of the season. Every 3rd of 4th game, he was under massive pressure.

Pressure is something that makes people do weird things, we saw that from him all season.

Maybe he was told after Palace that his job is not secure anymore and he will be gone so he decided to play more defensive so he can win the cup. We dont know.

I agree from the managers we are linked with, ETH will give youth players the most chances, esp if we get Tuchel and Poch.