How many defenders? Realistically...

Mexes
Desailly\Tudor
Bridge

Should definately try to secure Mexes even if he isn't quite ready, he'll be another Nesta, if not better.

A dominating CB figure, that can boost the confidence of O'Shea and Brown, eg Desailly(if his fitness is there) or Tudor, to help the youngsters along.

Full backs; Carr(fitness?), Revieiller(future france RB), or Bridge. I'd probably go for Bridge, good on the ball, english(team continuity), sounder than Mikey, though maybe not as pacy going forward.
 
Originally posted by Jens:
<strong>

my point is that i think carlos was and still is a horrible defender ... defending isnt really one of contra´s strengths, either</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jens get my vote for this one ... Frankly speaking I would LOVE to have a defender solid at the back and of course - strong in overlapping and cross-in ... that will be IDEAL for the team ... but if the guy failed the first criterior then THAT's IT !! .. his strong forwarding run will NOT be good enuf for me ...

IMO Man Utd already have a very very formiable line-up in going forward ( I mean forward and midfield as a whole ) ... Imagine we have a rock solid back-4 .. everybody else from midfield onwards could then safely roam up for goals ... that will be hell to any opposition .. !! .. We have almost never had anything of such .. only during those days when Stam was around and the back-4 was quite stable then .. . we stuck to 4-4-2 that year and won everything

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
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Originally posted by Jens:
<strong>how much do milan want for contra?

the other defenders will not be cheap ..

hofland 15m
tudor 15-20m
bridge 5-10m
emerton 10m</strong><hr></blockquote>

To my best agreement with Jens on Contra issue .. I don't think the above will ever happen ... Hofland is my fav. so leave that aside .. Tudor won't come IMO .. can't be going for 2 CB in a go ?!?! .. even Tudor has the flexibility of playing DM .. but do you really think we need anymore players in the middle ?! .. that's only if "V" leave OT I think ... Same will go for Emerton, ... I think he's still very much a midfielder insteasd ... he'll be the same as Contra .. I don't think he has the "solid" quality to be a RB ... Brown will be better than him anyday ...

Bridge ... well ... hot property now after the Enland cap IMO <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> ... But knowing how GOOD the relationship btw. the "ginger head" and Fergie ... what you think !? .. unless he's not there anymore next season ...
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Originally posted by Jens:
<strong>id settle for bridge, hofland, mexes and cisse as summer signings ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

either Hofland or Mexes IMO ... won't be both .. Cisse I WANT HIM !!!! ... Bridge, .. as posted ... don see the possibility ... but would like to have him of course ...
and to the more sensitive topic just for the sake of completing this transfer talk - if "V" ever leave ... then I would like Van Bommel ... although raidding PSV for two of their stars in a go looks really awkward ... especially when we already have RVN from them ( and Stam before this ) ... I think PSV fans will HATE us even more
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Originally posted by John-John John:
[QB]Jean-Alain Boumsong, 22 years old, he always played in Auxerre, Europe U18 champion with France, he now plays in France U21, and he can play CB and RB.

Philippe Mexès, 20 years old, just the same career than Boumsong, he is CB, I think you would call that a sweeper (like Blanc... but younger!).

Jérémie Bréchet, 22 years old, he always played in Lyon where he won a Coupe de la Ligue, plays in France U21, and had one cap for France in Confederations cup (won by France). He is LB.
[QB]<hr></blockquote>

Mexes aside, anybody else heard of the other 2 players before ? or is it John3 too superior than us in terms of French-based players ?
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I would stick my neck out and say make radical changes to the defence - it's just not good enough at the highest level.

The entire back four would be replaced if I was Sir Alex

The reality is of course only one centre-half will join us this summer
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>I would stick my neck out and say make radical changes to the defence - it's just not good enough at the highest level.

The entire back four would be replaced if I was Sir Alex

The reality is of course only one centre-half will join us this summer</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly. If I am the manager and I don't consider money, loyality or personal emotion, I will buy 4 new defenders and maintain Silverstre, Brown and O'Shea here as understudy and future prospects. That's how bad our current defence is. But in reality Fergie may only buy one, and if he buy two I will already be very, very happy.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

Exactly. If I am the manager and I don't consider money, loyality or personal emotion, I will buy 4 new defenders and maintain Silverstre, Brown and O'Shea here as understudy and future prospects. That's how bad our current defence is. But in reality Fergie may only buy one, and if he buy two I will already be very, very happy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

However you slice and dice it, we have to admit that out defence is just not good enough for Europe. Decent maybe but not outstanding which is simply not acceptable for a club of our stature.

Ideally, four fast and powerful defenders are needed.

I hope and pray Fergie will wield the axe on his defenders this summer just as he did on the team several years ago.
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Originally posted by Penny:
<strong>

Mexes aside, anybody else heard of the other 2 players before ? or is it John3 too superior than us in terms of French-based players ?
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I've heard of them, yes.

Boumsong was considered a very promising player 2-3 years ago and was very, very close to signing for Liverpool, but they gave up on him eventually. He hasn't really improved during the last 2-3 years and I'd say he's even gone backwards. He's not United quality, that's for sure.

As for Brechet, well he's not a bad player as well, capable of playing in the centre and on the left but again, he's not United quality, yet.
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Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

However you slice and dice it, we have to admit that out defence is just not good enough for Europe. Decent maybe but not outstanding which is simply not acceptable for a club of our stature.

Ideally, four fast and powerful defenders are needed.

I hope and pray Fergie will wield the axe on his defenders this summer just as he did on the team several years ago.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm hoping that Fergie will be so embarrassed by this season's defending, and considering he knows that HE will have to deal with HIS defense for the next three years, and will have the the transfer kitty that was saved for the new manager, that he'll take the opportunity to do some major team rebuilding. There's no-one in the defense that couldn't be replaced with someone better. I'd like to see Ayala rather than Hofland, because he's the finished article and I think we need to have some confidence and assurance in the centre of defense. He's also mean and strong, he may be short, but he's still a fearsome defender. I'd be slightly worried about him getting sent off to many times in the premier league's strict regime. Hofland doesn't strike me as an imposing defender even with his height. Its about attitude.

Did anyone watch the rangers game last night? How did emerton do?
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Jens, who would you like to have as full backs?
I think spurs did well getting ziege this year, but I suppose he is more of a wing back. Not sure why he didn't do well at Liverpool, maybe it was due to the different formations.

I think we've all focussed on young defenders, but I'd be just as happy with 26-30 year olds, because I think experience is vital for defenders, youngsters just don't have the positional awareness or reading of the game. I must admit that I wish we had been in the running for Sol Campbell, or Rio Ferdinand. Spurs have quite a few good defenders even now that we could poach. Carr and King particularly.
 
Im happy with Shevchenko,Contra,Hofland and Ayala and then next summer the whole auxerre gang.
 
Revieiller(future france RB) <hr></blockquote>

Do you mean Réveillère ? He plays in Rennes, and he is really not as good as Boumsong.
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Jens, who would you like to have as full backs?
I think spurs did well getting ziege this year, but I suppose he is more of a wing back. Not sure why he didn't do well at Liverpool, maybe it was due to the different formations.

I think we've all focussed on young defenders, but I'd be just as happy with 26-30 year olds, because I think experience is vital for defenders, youngsters just don't have the positional awareness or reading of the game. I must admit that I wish we had been in the running for Sol Campbell, or Rio Ferdinand. Spurs have quite a few good defenders even now that we could poach. Carr and King particularly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are right once again. I also said before that we should buy an experienced defender well proven in international level first, and then if we buy more than one defenders we can consider one of them to be young, potential one. But if we only buy one he must be experienced enough to immediately improve our defence. Players such as Ayala, Nesta, Cannaviro, etc.. should go for them at any price. Even Hoffland I'm not 100% sure he is really that good or not.
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Originally posted by Penny:
<strong>

To my best agreement with Jens on Contra issue .. I don't think the above will ever happen ... Hofland is my fav. so leave that aside .. Tudor won't come IMO .. can't be going for 2 CB in a go ?!?! .. even Tudor has the flexibility of playing DM .. but do you really think we need anymore players in the middle ?! .. that's only if "V" leave OT I think ... Same will go for Emerton, ... I think he's still very much a midfielder insteasd ... he'll be the same as Contra .. I don't think he has the "solid" quality to be a RB ... Brown will be better than him anyday ...

Bridge ... well ... hot property now after the Enland cap IMO <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> ... But knowing how GOOD the relationship btw. the "ginger head" and Fergie ... what you think !? .. unless he's not there anymore next season ...</strong><hr></blockquote>


dont think itll happen, either but the lads id like to have arent really cheap ...

id be happy if we signed a cb and a fullback in summer

we cant go wrong with either tudor nor hofland ... tudor´s a beast and scores quite a few for a defender ... his aerial presence is superb
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Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Jens, who would you like to have as full
backs?</strong><hr></blockquote>

im not unhappy with silvestre, id like to have bridge of his versatility tho ... and we need a new fullback cos denis is leaving

gary neville isnt a right back imo ... ive been saying that hes better at cb for a while now

well, then theres wes brown ... im a fan of him and i think he has evertyhing it takes to succeed at the highest level but ive been disappointed with him this season ... brown did a pretty good job at rb in 98-99

maybe steven carr, but id like to see him after his recovery before making an approach first

<strong>I think spurs did well getting ziege this year, but I suppose he is more of a wing back. Not sure why he didn't do well at Liverpool, maybe it was due to the different formations.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i live in germany and ive been following his career for about 8 years now and hes always been very inconsistent .. wouldnt like to have the lad at utd


<strong>I think we've all focussed on young defenders, but I'd be just as happy with 26-30 year olds, because I think experience is vital for defenders, youngsters just don't have the positional awareness or reading of the game.</strong><hr></blockquote>

agreed to a degree .. tudor´s only 24 but he has quite a bit experience

wouldnt mind jon terry, either


<strong>I must admit that I wish we had been in the running for Sol Campbell, or Rio Ferdinand.</strong><hr></blockquote>

ferdinand? aye ... he made me eat my words ... i still think his fee was a joke but hes been superb for leeds

campbell? no ... hes a donkey
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Originally posted by Jens:
<strong>


dont think itll happen, either but the lads id like to have arent really cheap ...

id be happy if we signed a cb and a fullback in summer

we cant go wrong with either tudor nor hofland ... tudor´s a beast and scores quite a few for a defender ... his aerial presence is superb</strong><hr></blockquote>

Which full back though?
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IMO a good fullback will have to have the below :
- solid, non-compromising in his tackling
- speedy, to make any overlapping run possible (and of course, hopefully with some decent crossing)
- atheleticsm, due to the constant facing of tricky wingers

TO think along this line ... I think we will find a rite one ... But Neil got me for this one ... I touch my heart and seriously can't think of anybody else other than Bridge so far ..
 
Ok so Blanc says he is quitting, But we have Johnsen Tangoman, O'Shea and May back. And Alan Tate and McDermot coming up behind them. Toss in Sylvestre and the two Nevilles amd I see no need whatsoever to waste money on new defenders. What we need are a couple of world class wingers and two guys up front who can score goals for fun.
Oh Giggs and Beckham.... and Ruud and Ole you say. Well then we need a new manager... Oh SAF is staying? Feck me how about a world class Pie Seller then? Otherwise we seem well supplied! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Blanc has been our best defender this season which says a lot about our defensive quality considering he is 36 years old and on the verge of retirement.

I've gotten very sick and tired of seeing even average strikers (re nantes and boro) zoom past our defenders like they weren't there and cause plenty of havoc in our penalty area simply because we can't handle them.

Once again, I hope and pray Sir Alex will bring the axe down hard this summer and four new guys come in as replacements

Hell, worse comes to worst, I'll settle for two!
 
Fergie will NEVER be so hard to fly the axe on his fledgings ... not unless the neviles start to talk some rotten stuff or getting "too big" in the dressing room (but I think both of them have stayed long enuf to know what they SHOULDN'T do) ... so guys ... you will have to see the Nevilles be around for a longer time ... but seriously, are they that bad ?! ?.. I mean they might have some dodging moments ... but I think they have another IMPORTANT point ... they have a TRUE RED DEVIL's heart ... which is VERYVERY important as far as I am concerned ...

Silvestre don't stand on the same shoes IMO ... he has made some quite stupid comments before against Fergis so he's in a dangerous position IMO ..

Well then ... to think along this line - I would like to see somebody to SHINE along the Nevilles ... If Johnson can keep himself clean and healthy ... I would still think a young and promising defender will be coming in this off-season .. no doubt abt it ..
 
Originally posted by John-John John:
<strong>

Do you mean Réveillère ? He plays in Rennes, and he is really not as good as Boumsong.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes J3, thats the one, he looked excellent the 4-5 times I saw him. Sound defensively, technically better that any of our current defenders bar Blanc maybe, which you would want in a fullback they have to do more than just defend, especially the way United play. He dribbles well, crosses well, good shot(saw one goal he scored off his left foot even) and also seems to take most of the set pieces. Where do these french talents keep appearing from? Any more out there?
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More french young talents in defence : Ahmed Reda Madouni (Borussia Dortmund), Sylvain Armand (Nantes, will probably join italian league at the end of the season), Philippe Christanval (but he's already in Barcelona), Julien Escudé (Rennes, brother of the tennisman Nico le Scud), Mathieu Bodmer (Caen), Samuel Neva (Laval), Bernard Mendy (PSG), etc., etc.

Beautiful future for France. ;)
 
Did none of you watch the African nations Cup?
The Senegal Captain, Cisse is about 6-4" plays right back or central defender, and is a class act. I think he plays in France for a minor team. He would be a great capture IMHO&gt;
 
Originally posted by John-John John:
<strong>More french young talents in defence : Ahmed Reda Madouni (Borussia Dortmund), Sylvain Armand (Nantes, will probably join italian league at the end of the season), Philippe Christanval (but he's already in Barcelona), Julien Escudé (Rennes, brother of the tennisman Nico le Scud), Mathieu Bodmer (Caen), Samuel Neva (Laval), Bernard Mendy (PSG), etc., etc.

Beautiful future for France. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

mendy is the only decent player out of that lot ..

christanval hasnt done anything for barca yet (looked horrible yesterday) and madouni isnt anywhere close to the first team for dortmund
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Even Mendy isn't really a big player for the moment.
But these players I was talking about are certainly (for several of them) future top-class defenders (but most of them are only 20 or less, so they need time).
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Did anyone watch the rangers game last night? How did emerton do?</strong><hr></blockquote>

He played decent - nothing spectular - although it wasn't really a game where anyone stood out. Peter Lovenkrands got the better of him a few times though. :)
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In the long term, I would go after 3 CB's knowing United will probably get only 1. The three are Mexes, Tudor and Chivu. Chivu and Tudor have great versatility as well, with Chivu also being able to play at LB and Tudor at DM. Having seen O'Shea a number of times, I truly think he is a better option than Wes is--more mature, better reading of the game. In the long run, he will be the better player. He is also a big, powerful CB and I like the idea of having two such players with FB's who are capable of bringing the ball out of the back. That being said, all of the three CB's I mentioned are great with the ball at their feet, so any purchase of those players would be fine with me.
 
Looks like we will only get one defender this summer - a replacement for Blanc.

Sir Alex is far too loyal to the Nevilles to make wholesome changes.

Everyone in the current defence nees replacing.
And we are going to be replaced with only one.

No CL for next season as well :(
 
Fergie will at least get 2 defenders because he knows the defence is the weak link in the team.
 
Originally posted by Richter:
<strong>Fergie will at least get 2 defenders because he knows the defence is the weak link in the team.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If he really know that, he should already get at least one this season, before he got Diego Forlan. Recently he just said he want Blanc to stay in next season, which really make me feel quite dispair about the chance to improve our defence next season.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

If he really know that, he should already get at least one this season, before he got Diego Forlan. Recently he just said he want Blanc to stay in next season, which really make me feel quite dispair about the chance to improve our defence next season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Despite fergie's wishes, Blanc will hang up his boots this summer.

Which will force Sir Alex to buy a replacement.

That is going to happen.

What I am afraid of is that the buck stops there.

We don't have cover for the full-backs, Irwin is leaving and Philip Neville is just not up to the task.

I hope and pray that at least one full-back will join us in addition to the new centre-half
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Fergie tried to get Lizarazu and Thuram in the summer after the 2 big signings.All good defenders are cup tied so why bother buy a decent player when you can buy a star or two in the summer?I wouldnt say no to a Nesta-Cannavaro partnership.Or Canna-Hofland or Nesta-Ayala.The clubs never release their star players in the winter.
 
for right back i think brown should be given a chance to play there, he did brilliantly in the CL in the treble season.

IMO he has all the attributes that thuram (minus maybe the expereince), pace, power, passing and strength. he could be converted to RB same as thuram is.
i don't think brown will play CB again this unless we get injuries to blanc or ronny.

IMO he is better than irwin and phil in this position.
 
if saf could get his hands on tudor , he could play at the back or in midfield. and as someone posted he is a beast. 6'2" presence in the ctr of the pitch (post keane era) or at the back. him paired at the back w/ hofland would be interesting. contra at 7m would be someone to take a look at. MU will also need a striker.
 
Originally posted by gulli_G:
<strong>for right back i think brown should be given a chance to play there, he did brilliantly in the CL in the treble season.

IMO he has all the attributes that thuram (minus maybe the expereince), pace, power, passing and strength. he could be converted to RB same as thuram is.
i don't think brown will play CB again this unless we get injuries to blanc or ronny.

IMO he is better than irwin and phil in this position.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Totally agree. Is he injured currently? Because he hasn't been on the bench recently nor in the reserves.
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