How good was Ronaldo when he was at Juventus?

SATA

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Any Juventus and Serie A watchers able to tell us during his time in Italy? Was he still near world class there? Did the team have to play to his strengths, a little bit similar to United when he was with us? I think he was about 33 when he moved to Italy

Am genuinely curious and whether it’s at Juve when he’s showing signs of declining, and that they were happy to release him.
 
He was already declining in Madrid, the team was just so good and so perfectly calibrated around him that it only affected them in the league in his last season(and he was only bad for half of it anyways)

It was a rather steady decline, where he was still great individually but the team(s) around him also got steadily worse and so the balance between his positive and negative impact trended more and more towards the latter. That said only in his final season it could be argued that he was a net negative for the team, and even that's a bit of a stretch imo

So, yes he was still WC in his first season, probably in his second, arguably not in his third. The team did have to cater to him to some degree, though they never did to the degree Real Madrid used to. He himself tried to adapt some to them as well

Real issue of his time at Juventus was his cost, which is why they were happy to release him - 60M euros in wages saved at a time of financial crisis...
 
The Atletico CL game stick out.

Real Madrid are excellent sellers. They know when a player is within 12 months from not being World Class any more. So the buying club is still signing a World Class player (as we did with Casemiro) but Madrid get a huge fee within about a year of the player falling off a cliff

I think Ronaldo would have been considered a success if he'd have returned to United straight from Madrid and then left us before what would end up being his final 6 months here.
 
He was pretty shite. Take it from someone who didn't watch a single game.
 
I think he was largely the same player at Juve as he was for us in that first season, with the exception that Mandzukic and Morata were great at doing the unfashionable centre forward stuff that we kind of just forgot about when we stuck Ronaldo up top as a lone striker.

Their team was more functional as a result, even if it was more or less a 3-year crossathon.
 
Think he was pretty good in Serie A up until near the end when he declined, but was brought into a team completely dominant in the league anyway.

He cost a shitload of money that Juve barely had and for one objective - to finally win the Champions League and they went from 2 finals in 4 years to not going close and losing to teams they were expected to beat - Lyon, Porto and Ajax. The Atletico game in his first season where they came from behind and he started was the only knockout game they won in 3 seasons.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Think he was pretty good in Serie A up until near the end when he declined, but was brought into a team completely dominant in the league anyway.

He cost a shitload of money that Juve barely had and for one objective - to finally win the Champions League and they went from 2 finals in 4 years to not going close and losing to teams they were expected to beat - Lyon, Porto and Ajax. The Atletico game in his first season where they came from behind and he started was the only knockout game they won in 3 seasons.
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That somehow sums it up nicely.
 
He’s 14th in their all time top scorer list and only played 3 years. I’d say he was pretty good
 
Spaghetti Bolognese said:
He’s 14th in their all time top scorer list and only played 3 years. I’d say he was pretty good
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Individually it was good, but it wasn't for Juve:

Juve during the 3 seasons with Ronaldo.
average position: 2
average goals scored: 74
average points: 84
CL: won one knock out game (Atleti), lost QF to Ajax (1:1, 1:2), lost R16 to Lyon (0:1, 2:1), lost R16 to Porto (1:2, 3:2).

Juve in the 3 seasons before Ronaldo.
average position: 1
average goals scored: 79
average points: 92
CL: won 4 knock out games (Porto, Barcelona, Monaco, Tottenham), lost R16 to Bayern (2:2, 2:4), lost final to Real (1:4), lost QF to Real (0:3, 3:1).
 
Acrobat7 said:
Individually it was good, but it wasn't for Juve:

Juve during the 3 seasons with Ronaldo.
average position: 2
average goals scored: 74
average points: 84
CL: won one knock out game (Atleti), lost QF to Ajax (1:1, 1:2), lost R16 to Lyon (0:1, 2:1), lost R16 to Porto (1:2, 3:2).

Juve in the 3 seasons before Ronaldo.
average position: 1
average goals scored: 79
average points: 92
CL: won 4 knock out games (Porto, Barcelona, Monaco, Tottenham), lost R16 to Bayern (2:2, 2:4), lost final to Real (1:4), lost QF to Real (0:3, 3:1).
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I thought the questions was “how good was Ronaldo”, not “how good were Juventus”.

Anyway, there can be many reason for a team declining, it’s not necessarily down to Ronaldo. They got much worse after he left.
 
Acrobat7 said:
Individually it was good, but it wasn't for Juve:

Juve during the 3 seasons with Ronaldo.
average position: 2
average goals scored: 74
average points: 84
CL: won one knock out game (Atleti), lost QF to Ajax (1:1, 1:2), lost R16 to Lyon (0:1, 2:1), lost R16 to Porto (1:2, 3:2).

Juve in the 3 seasons before Ronaldo.
average position: 1
average goals scored: 79
average points: 92
CL: won 4 knock out games (Porto, Barcelona, Monaco, Tottenham), lost R16 to Bayern (2:2, 2:4), lost final to Real (1:4), lost QF to Real (0:3, 3:1).
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Make it fair and do the 3 seasons after also.
 
He was good but Juventus fans I know were happy he left as they felt he made the team weaker
 
Acrobat7 said:
Individually it was good, but it wasn't for Juve:

Juve during the 3 seasons with Ronaldo.
average position: 2
average goals scored: 74
average points: 84
CL: won one knock out game (Atleti), lost QF to Ajax (1:1, 1:2), lost R16 to Lyon (0:1, 2:1), lost R16 to Porto (1:2, 3:2).

Juve in the 3 seasons before Ronaldo.
average position: 1
average goals scored: 79
average points: 92
CL: won 4 knock out games (Porto, Barcelona, Monaco, Tottenham), lost R16 to Bayern (2:2, 2:4), lost final to Real (1:4), lost QF to Real (0:3, 3:1).
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An oversemplification but not incorrect on the whole

They paid for a top 10 player all time, and got "only" a WC striker instead
 
Spaghetti Bolognese said:
I thought the questions was “how good was Ronaldo”, not “how good were Juventus”.

Anyway, there can be many reason for a team declining, it’s not necessarily down to Ronaldo. They got much worse after he left.
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That is why i said that he was good, but Juve declined while he was there. Cause and effect?
And when you pay that fee and those wages for Ronaldo you obviously have less money to improve your team further.
 
giorno said:
An oversemplification but not incorrect on the whole

They paid for a top 10 player all time, and got "only" a WC striker instead
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Absolutely! I never called his stint at Juve "bad" individually. He simply didn't push them further and they declined. Their CL campaigns speak volume.
Was that due to other teams improving, him being the center of their game plan or they being broke after buying and paying him: i do not know. I didn't watch the league.
 
Still top level until his final season. Cheisa dragged them to top 4 in 20/21, Ronaldo struggling to press and left on the bench for the final game of the season.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Then you aint looking very well.

ARRIVALS 19/20 - you’ll see De Ligt at the top of the list.​

And then see 20/21 and you’ll see another 162m of incomings.

So in the 2 Summers after signing him they bought players for almost 400m. So I’ll ask again, is this true?
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But Ronaldo signed for us in 2021? Am I missing something obvious here?
 
Was it a case of Ronaldo wanting to leave Real and go somewhere else or was it more of Real wanting to sell as they could see his decline? I remember a story that he did not get the contract renewal which he wanted and really left him in frustration

The point about Juve buying him to get one CL title at least was a good one but they got nowhere near that when he was there. They’ll always have the memories of him scoring that brilliant hat trick against Atletico though
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Then you aint looking very well.

ARRIVALS 19/20 - you’ll see De Ligt at the top of the list.​

And then see 20/21 and you’ll see another 162m of incomings.
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Ah! I thought you meant after he left. There is no doubt they went all-in financially when they signed him (and for example de Ligt) The argument was more, that they didn't have too much financial muscle anymore after Ronaldo left and therefore got worse.
 
Acrobat7 said:
Ah! I thought you meant after he left. There is no doubt they went all-in financially when they signed him (and for example de Ligt) The argument was more, that they didn't have too much financial muscle anymore after Ronaldo left and therefore got worse.
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They got worse because they spent 400m after Ronaldo on players that didn’t improve them, and due that spend had no money left.

Their recruitment post Ronaldo failed them massively, hence why it all fell apart once Ronaldo left, not just due to him leaving obviously, but because they had completely changed from the side you referenced in the 3 years prior to Ronaldo.

It’s hard to look at Juve post Ronaldo and see the 400m spent, and with a straight face claim he or his transfer fee was the reason they got worse.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
They got worse because they spent 400m after Ronaldo on players that didn’t improve them, and due that spend had no money left.
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I believe we are talking about virtually the same thing. They went all-in with the signing of Ronaldo (and other players), had no success in the CL and were in a rather tight financial position afterwards. See their investments of the last 3 years.
 
Acrobat7 said:
That is why i said that he was good, but Juve declined while he was there. Cause and effect?
And when you pay that fee and those wages for Ronaldo you obviously have less money to improve your team further.
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I don't think there's even correlation between Juventus signing him and getting worse. The team was old and getting older, there was some bad luck with injuries, and they failed to rejuvenate the squad, despite spending big money on it. For some reason around that time they tried to change their culture but went about it half assed, and paid the price of that, mostly. Covid fecked them up something fierce, too.
SATA said:
Was it a case of Ronaldo wanting to leave Real and go somewhere else or was it more of Real wanting to sell as they could see his decline? I remember a story that he did not get the contract renewal which he wanted and really left him in frustration
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Cristiano wanted a raise(about a year after signing his last contract), Madrid refused and came to an agreement to sell him at certain conditions - which Madrid believed could never materialize. They were blindsided by Juventus. Selling him was not in the plans at that point in time.
 
Acrobat7 said:
I believe we are talking about virtually the same thing. They went all-in with the signing of Ronaldo (and other players), had no success in the CL and were in a rather tight financial position afterwards. See their investments of the last 3 years.
Click to expand...

No, you’re claiming the Ronaldo fee left them tight financially. I’m claiming the 400m badly spent cash post Ronaldo did that.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
No, you’re claiming the Ronaldo fee left them tight financially. I’m claiming the 400m badly spent cash post Ronaldo did that.
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Then I will end this interesting discourse with the following from my side: The money Juve invested in Ronaldo and other players to finally win the CL was all in all poorly invested and thus the beginning of their financial misery which was amplified by Covid.
 
Well, Jonathan Wilson wrote a pretty fair assessment of his (Ronaldo's) time at Juventus, which was derided here as ABU and blasphemy at the time, by all the teary eyed saps, eager to sing "viva Ronaldo". Took an interview with the Prince of Darkness for everyone to come around to this view.
 
While I didn't watch Juventus' games then (or now) I think when he was coming to Juve back in 2018 it was clear that the main reason was to have him help them finally win the Champions League. As others pointed out above it didn't happen and they actually got worse in the competition.

As United fan one occasion that was satisfying was when Ronaldo scored against us in Turin to make it 1-0, doing his celebration etc and then they were holding on that 1-0 lead before we won 2-1 in stoppage time with Mata and Fellaini (or was it Bonucci own goal?) goals. We were shite but that was nice, funny win :lol:
 
SATA said:
Was it a case of Ronaldo wanting to leave Real and go somewhere else or was it more of Real wanting to sell as they could see his decline? I remember a story that he did not get the contract renewal which he wanted and really left him in frustration
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He wanted to leave. People here have this image of Real Madrid as "the wily selling club" because Varane and Casemiro didn't do well at United.
 
I still remember a UCL game where he was absolute clutch for us in his first season, edge of the box volley. Still hugely talented and effective but not at his peak.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Yet after he left.

3 seasons, average position 5th, average points 68.
Average goals 56.
Champions League :lol:
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They finished 4th with him in their last season and things had began to go sour. They also went out of the UCL earlier than expected and to weaker opposition every season he was there. He was a success if you look at his goals but they went from winning the league every year to the streak to end and the fans weren't too fussed about him staying anymore.

It was very similar to his second time here where a lot of them felt he made the team weaker. Players like Dybala seemed to suffer after Cristiano arrived, he went from 22 goals to failing to score more than 5 goals in two of those seasons.
 
Very regretful for Juventus. He didn't win CL so it was a flop. CL was the only goal. They are desperate to win 1 again. Juventus broke the bank for him, they would take it back if they could.
 
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