Nar, Rio being a much smarter defender and positionally unbelievable suits partnering error prone defenders much better. Obviously.
How good was Rio Ferdinand? | …….
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Nar, Rio being a much smarter defender and positionally unbelievable suits partnering error prone defenders much better. Obviously.
It was a myth he couldn't defend because he didn't throw himself into tackles like the blood and thunder defending that was cool at the time. He was a top defender who had a good brain, lots of composure and a brain with the ball. Very un-England like. The idea he needed a blood and thunder CB beside him was a bit of a myth too. Was pure class as much as I hate to admit it.
He's have been unreal in a Pep team or with freedom in a back 3 like Chelsea currently play. Severly underrated defensively because he wasn't throwing himself around and finishing games covered in blood while speaking with a mildly concussed attitude like like he'd been 12 rounds with Anthony Joshua.
He's have been unreal in a Pep team or with freedom in a back 3 like Chelsea currently play. Severly underrated defensively because he wasn't throwing himself around and finishing games covered in blood while speaking with a mildly concussed attitude like like he'd been 12 rounds with Anthony Joshua.
I've never heard anyone say Rio couldn't defend.
Agree with this. IMO Rio/Stam would be the best CB pair we ever had. Stam just edges Vidic
Not all down to him but he was the major influence on the improvement. He was the best defender in the best defence in Europe. Evra was actually weaker defensively than his predecessor (Heinze).
It's defending 101, you'd always pick a Rio, Nesta, Maldini, Carvalho to partner an error prone partner before a Vidic-style defender. The mere fact that Vidic and Ferdinand were so good together was because Rio allowed Vidic to defend on the front foot and vice versa.
Evra was miles better defensively than Heinze ffs, he was just miles better at absolutely everything.
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Before his suspension, his first couple of years here were underwhelming by his own words. His concentration and desire improved 10fold after that long missed drugs test suspension, similar to Roy Keanes injury, and year out in 97-98 changed his mindset. Post suspension Rio for us was absolute class with or without Vidic, as his partnership with others like Johnny Evans proved.
Saying Vidic is the reason why Rio looked good is so untrue it's actually infuriating to read.
Yeah I'd say our chances of keeping two clean sheets against Barca in 2008 would have dropped considerably had Rio been the one out injured instead of Vidic.
I am not sure I would use that game to highlight Rio's qualities. I remember back then we basically played as deep as I can ever remember us playing with Fergie even coming out and stating how he did not like our performance back then which actually led to him change his tactics the year after that. Playing deep always helps defenders which is why we always see "great" performances from mid table defenders when they come to big grounds and fight for their lives. The full backs are tucked in close to you, the midfielders are playing deeper protecting you and your job is to basically clear out crosses and suffocate the space, not easy but not really reflective of how good Rio was. His strength for me came in games when we'd play higher up and dominate, we would provide less protection for the back four and he'd still marshal the opponents attack quite comfortably. That was something neither Vidic, nor Terry, the other standout defenders of the era, could do.
Tons of other clubs fans used to say it about him and in his younger days even pundits. Arsene Wenger even said you overpaid for him by £10m
He was error prone himself which meant the combinations didn't work. If he suited it better, why did Fergie feel the need to get Vidic in when he had Rio and the "best natural defender in England" in Wesley Brown? Vidic was just a pure defender and provided the stability, consistency and steel that Rio needed next to him.
The United defence was regularly bullied by physical forwards pre-Vidic.
For me he was United's best ever defender and England's second best behind Moore. Probably not a lot much between him and Moore, but Moore's performances in 1966 and 1970 were exceptional even at that rarefied level.
In an all-time global setting, he's obviously not in the top tier alongside Baresi, Beckenbauer, Figeuroa, Nesta, Kohler, etc. But I think he's earned a spot in the next tier down.
In an all-time global setting, he's obviously not in the top tier alongside Baresi, Beckenbauer, Figeuroa, Nesta, Kohler, etc. But I think he's earned a spot in the next tier down.
You can say the same for Vidic, tho. Ferdinand has superior reading of the game and positioning sense, while Vidic was excellent at going for the first ball and on the deck. Rio swept around him and that complimentary game made them such a great pairing.
Heinze was a very good defender but provided nothing offensively. Evra was signed to provide a different attacking dimension to the team. I agree he was a much better player than Heinze but as a pure defender Heinze was better. He could slot in comfortably at centre back and often picked up the opposition's best header at set pieces.
No chance, maybe at a CB but Heinze was a very average left back. Evra wasn't called Jesus around here for nothing.
People got giddy about Heinze because he was all blood and thunder, but he was absolutely not a great defender and not in Evra's league. If you were defending Ronaldo or Bale tomorrow, would you seriously pick a prime Heinze at LB over a prime Evra?
He really wasn't. Very similar to Rojo but Rojo is a better centreback.
The bold bit is what Fergie called him on a regular basis. He clearly rated Wes very highly but my opinion is that he didn't feel that Rio and Wes were ever going to be good enough as a pair. I agree with him. Rio was by far the better of the two so they bought an upgrade to partner him.
My preference of defender is one that stops the opposition from scoring.
I used that game to show how confident I was in our defense by that point, mainly from what I had seen from Rio leading our defense in all types of games and knowing we would be impenetrable if we decided to defend. You're random football fan knows it's easier for defenders with more help when a team is defending in numbers so I don't know where you're going with that.
Best defender I have seen at United. Better than McGrath who I rated very, very highly. He made defending look so effortless.
Cant agree with that. For me it Stam>Rio>Vida. All different type of defenders mind you.
Of the two, I think Vidic's positioning and reading of the game was superior.
Yeah, that would have been absolutely phenomenal. But the way it turned out, Maldini - Nesta - Stam - Cafu became my favourite backline until this day. I was also impressed that this hulk of a defender could be used as a right back at Lazio.That makes sense then. It's a pity Fergie sold Stam(as he admits as well). Stam/young Rio would've been a one helluva partnership that would've brought 1-2 premiership titles more methinks.
One of the elite defenders for sure. How good exactly I can't say, because I watched football on a purely emotional level back then. But the fact that two historically adept Italians have him at position 1 and 3 of their post-'97 CB lists probably says something.
You have ruined that list by having Puyol in it. An overrated donkey for me who had the benefit of not having to do much defending due to his team having 80% possession.
Just checked the old reliable Wiki. Between 2002/03 and 2007/08, Wes Brown played over 30 games in all but one of those seasons.
Personally during that period 06-09 i thought Rio was our best defender. Us having the best defence in Europe was a group effort no doubt but i thought the driving force behind it was Ferdinand maturing and hitting his prime along with having having world class players like Vds, Evra and Vidic around him.
Vidic i think hit his prime a few years later maybe around 08-11 when he was immense for us. That coincided with Rio's injury problems and decline.
I find that to be a bit of a myth that Evra was weak defensively. Sure towards the end of his career here he was shaky. But in his prime he was a fantastic defender, best LB in the world arguably at one point and certainly better than Heinze in every department for me.
30 games... how many games did United play?
Vidic arrived in the middle of the 2005-2006 season remember, Wes missed a large part of the start of that season through injury, the season before the previous season* he missed the majority through injury.
So did he really buy Vidic because he didn't rate Wes and Rio, or did he buy Vidic because he was a) brilliant and b) because Wes couldn't be trusted to play 40+ games a season.
*edited
I'd have him at CB in my all time Utd and I've seen some great,pacey centre halves in the PL.
I'd partner him with Vidic every time.
I'd partner him with Vidic every time.
Very similar to Rojo but with elbows instead of 2 footed tackles.
Moore is on another level when compared to Rio. The comments from Pele, Beckenbauer etc attest to that. But as you say, he's one level down.
Evra is one of my favourite United players and I would pick him left back (Irwin right back) in any "best United 11". But his signing signalled a significant change in how United used their full backs and he played the role far more offensively than Heinze did. That is why I don't think you could say he had anything like the impact on the team's improved defensive stability that Vidic did.
You're far from alone in thinking Rio was the team's best defender. That's not an outrageous claim by any means but I don't agree. I think Vidic is one of the most influential players at the club in recent years and seems to be grossly underrated by United fans.
Maybe. All I can go from is my memory at the time and the United defence in that era was not good enough. Whether it was Brown or Silvestre at the back with Rio, the defence was inconsistent, lightweight and made mistakes.
Fergie bought Vidic and he and Rio went on to become one of the greatest defensive partnerships in the club's history.
Same here mate funnily enough. Also i don't know if Evra signaled a change in how United use fullbacks. Evra was certainly much more offensive than Heinze, but then Heinze was much more defensive than G. Neville, Irwin and even the likes Silvestre before him. So maybe going from Henize to Evra made it seem that way. Who knows.
And i'm not saying our defence being so good was more down to Evra than Vidic of course it wasn't. I would actually agree that Vidic had more of an influence than Evra on our defence being so good. But Patrice also played his part.
I don't underrate him at all i thought he was brilliant for us. I just don't think he was better than Rio for the first few years of his career here. As i said a few years later when he hit his peak i actually thought he was the best defender in the world for a time.
He was really good at many important aspect of the game as a defender. I think there are a couple of things that stand out.
* Reading of the game
* Amazing timing in interceptions
* Passing
* Speed
* Athletic and having a really good mix of size and lean muscles
Negative:
* Hardly ever scored a goal with his head despite being "a threat on corners"
* Not the best defender when being attacked by quicker dribblers
* A bit weird off the pitch
* Reading of the game
* Amazing timing in interceptions
* Passing
* Speed
* Athletic and having a really good mix of size and lean muscles
Negative:
* Hardly ever scored a goal with his head despite being "a threat on corners"
* Not the best defender when being attacked by quicker dribblers
* A bit weird off the pitch
In the same way as Fergie wanted a "Vieira", I think Ashley Cole's attacking threat from left back in that Arsenal team was something Fergie wanted to replicate.
Although full backs like Neville and Silvestre bombed forward, they were defenders first and foremost and they were one dimensional going forward. They usually attacked on the outside looking to overlap and cross. Evra had a more sophisticated attacking game than that and was more dangerous when he got into more advanced areas.
I agree that Irwin is a good example. He definitely had that in his game too.
Anyway, going way off topic here so I will leave it there.
That's exactly what I was telling him. Unlike Vidic who was the last piece of a world class defense, Rio found himself the main man in a very weak one. Mickey was a poor man's Rojo, our goalkeepers were
, Blanc was finished, Oshea was meah and Wes had a long term relationship with the treatment room. The only two solid defenders we had were Gaz and Heinze, none of them were ever world class and the latter was a mercenary who was more busy counting the money then giving a feck about our cause.Because Vidic did that for us
Not so sure about that. Rio would do a last ditch tackle if necessary, but he rarely found himself in that situation because he read the game so exceptionally well.
I also can't recall Rio leaving us in a lurch like Vidic did TWICE against Liverpool, by getting sent off fairly early. Vidic was tremendous, but I have a clear preference for Rio, myself.
One of my favourite United players of all time. He really was flawless at his peak and the biggest compliment I can pay him is that he made defending enjoyable to watch. In terms of where he ranks compared to his peers, I don't think we've seen a better CB in the premier league era.