How good is Chris Smalling?

We could afford to let O'Shea or Brown play right back all those years ago because we had Ronaldo on the other side.

I feel for Smalling. If he had an effective right winger alongside him then he could focus on defending first.
 
Bojan11 said:
We could afford to let O'Shea or Brown play right back all those years ago because we had Ronaldo on the other side.

I feel for Smalling. If he had an effective right winger alongside him then he could focus on defending first.
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Seems about right. I mostly feel for Smalling having to play fullback because he simply isn't one. Just because he has pace, he shouldn't be shunted to fullback position. Rio also had pace, but I can't remember him playing there (he was unsuccessfully played as a DM though). That said, Smalling should have had an assist against Olympiakos. However, he struggled defensively that match, which is almost a first.

Valencia - Smalling is a terrible option. I just wonder what it takes for Moyes to realise that.
 
In all fairness, he's no worse than O'Shea was on the ball. Slow to get the ball out his feet, clumsy and can't really pass to well but as has been mentioned because he doesn't have a decent winger in front of him who is happy to carry the ball, his attacking limitations get highlighted even more so. Defensively he's fine, and he's going to be a great CB as we have seen this season already but we need to phase him out of RB and he should be 3rd or 4th choice to play there.

Varela should be 2nd at the minute, maybe getting rid of Fabio was a bad idea. He's naturally right footed, still young and if he could stay fit he would of provided great back-up for RB and LB and eventually maybe taken over Evra when he left.
 
SambaBoy said:
In all fairness, he's no worse than O'Shea was on the ball. Slow to get the ball out his feet, clumsy and can't really pass to well but as has been mentioned because he doesn't have a decent winger in front of him who is happy to carry the ball, his attacking limitations get highlighted even more so. Defensively he's fine, and he's going to be a great CB as we have seen this season already but we need to phase him out of RB and he should be 3rd or 4th choice to play there.

Varela should be 2nd at the minute, maybe getting rid of Fabio was a bad idea. He's naturally right footed, still young and if he could stay fit he would of provided great back-up for RB and LB and eventually maybe taken over Evra when he left.
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He's really not. O'Shea at LB in 2002/03 was deceptively silky on the ball and used to nutmeg people for fun. Can you see Smalling scoring the goal O'Shea did against Arsenal (weaker foot, no less)? Could you see Smalling ever playing in CM?

Smalling at RB is a big problem since it just means that whenever the ball gets played through him, our attacks break down.

Just to prove this:



Watch from 2.19 O'Shea beats two men with zero support (the first a bit lucky, the second a brilliant piece of skill). He wasn't clumsy, at least before he bulked up a bit.
 
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I watched all of that. Seems like yesterday too. Keane-Scholes midfield :drool:
 
Bojan11 said:
We could afford to let O'Shea or Brown play right back all those years ago because we had Ronaldo on the other side.

I feel for Smalling. If he had an effective right winger alongside him then he could focus on defending first.
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Brown was very good at supporting his winger. O'Shea wasn't the best at overlapping, but his defense was very solid. He was never considered a weak point in our defense, no matter where he slotted in. I can't say the same about Smalling at this point.
 
It had to happen. O' Shea finally getting the credit he deserved.

Shame it so often takes players moving on for them to be properly appreciated.

I've thought for a while that we never properly replaced O'Shea and Brown. We just don't seem capable of shutting sides out the way we did with them in our squad. Granted, Rio and Vidic getting old hasn't helped but we became considerably more vulnerable, defensively, from the moment we lost the two I mentioned above.

Obviously, Smalling and Jones may both turn out to be better players. They've a good chance of doing exactly that. Meanwhile, we're going to ship a lot of goals. Which is not ideal.
 
We used to hear the nutcase poster Scholesy say something like players never improving technically after 21 years old and it made think of the opposite with JOS. The older he's become and the worse his skills on the ball. In that 02/03 season, JOS was a good LB with some very good technique, fast forward a few years later and you will never recognize the player.
 
Eugenius said:
He's really not. O'Shea at LB in 2002/03 was deceptively silky on the ball and used to nutmeg people for fun. Can you see Smalling scoring the goal O'Shea did against Arsenal (weaker foot, no less)? Could you see Smalling ever playing in CM?

Smalling at RB is a big problem since it just means that whenever the ball gets played through him, our attacks break down.

Just to prove this:



Watch from 2.19 O'Shea beats two men with zero support (the first a bit lucky, the second a brilliant piece of skill). He wasn't clumsy, at least before he bulked up a bit.
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Yeah he was class in that season to be fair but he declined on the ball after that and was never really the same. Smalling has produced good moments on the ball as well, City in the CS where he Ronaldo Chop Clichy/Zabaleta and put in a class ball.
 
Smalling playing at RB is just highlights his limitations on the ball. Fwiw I prefer Evans and Jones at CB over Smalling but I realise I'm in the minority with that opinion and I do agree Smalling is fine at CB he's just an awful awful fullback and it's not really fair to judge him on playing there. His composure on the ball is poor imo for a defender at a top club, but it's far less of a problem at CB.
 
LR7 said:
Smalling playing at RB is just highlights his limitations on the ball. Fwiw I prefer Evans and Jones at CB over Smalling but I realise I'm in the minority with that opinion and I do agree Smalling is fine at CB he's just an awful awful fullback and it's not really fair to judge him on playing there. His composure on the ball is poor imo for a defender at a top club, but it's far less of a problem at CB.
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You're not alone. Though the people who disagree with you will probably tell you of this mythical "higher ceiling" of talent or whatever that Smalling has which makes him better than Evans.
 
That video brought up feelings of nostalgia for me.

Scholes, Ole, Keano :(

Despite the fact Keane was such a grumpy guy, he was almost always the first to celebrate with goalscorers.
 
That 6-2 game is one of my most memorable. I think that was around the time that everyone was hyping up Jenas to replace Scholes in the England team...then Scholes produced a masterclass like that. Feck me those were the days.
 
Smalling clearly isn't a RB, although you can't fault his effort to try & make it work, he was always makeshift & Moyes is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I'd rather see Valencia understudy for Rafael, or preferably Fabio, but that isn't going to happen any time soon. Smalling is a fantastic CB, a shoe in to replace Rio, but he doesn't play CB often enough which, I feel, has seen his CB performances suffer on occasion.
 
Eugenius said:
He's really not. O'Shea at LB in 2002/03 was deceptively silky on the ball and used to nutmeg people for fun. Can you see Smalling scoring the goal O'Shea did against Arsenal (weaker foot, no less)? Could you see Smalling ever playing in CM?

Smalling at RB is a big problem since it just means that whenever the ball gets played through him, our attacks break down.

Just to prove this:



Watch from 2.19 O'Shea beats two men with zero support (the first a bit lucky, the second a brilliant piece of skill). He wasn't clumsy, at least before he bulked up a bit.
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You know I'd be willing to do some fairly significant self-harm if it meant having an in-his-prime Scholes back in the team.
 
Colin129 said:
Smalling clearly isn't a RB, although you can't fault his effort to try & make it work, he was always makeshift & Moyes is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I'd rather see Valencia understudy for Rafael, or preferably Fabio, but that isn't going to happen any time soon. Smalling is a fantastic CB, a shoe in to replace Rio, but he doesn't play CB often enough which, I feel, has seen his CB performances suffer on occasion.
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We're counting chickens at the moment. Rio right from his Leeds days was different, to the likes of Woodgate, Sol and Terry. For the start he was never matching the axioms defined by English footballing pundits, insular fans and the media alike, blood and thunder, hard or back to the wall defending, that were the reasons many of them put him down as overrated and when United shelled out £30M for him, many eye brows were raised. Rio had a grace and flair in his defending, plus excellent ball distribution skills that were often ignored by the critics. Nonetheless it took him four full seasons to establish himself as a top defender in Europe, I can remember United fans even on this board writing him off just because he was cerebral and was not good at tackling. Smalling still has a long way to go to match Rio, certainly no where near the the Rio of Leeds and playing him as a RB would only damage his already fragile confidence levels to begin with.
 
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Also, it's really not fair to slate him for his performances at RB when he clearly isn't one.

He's being asked to do a job for the team whilst the first choice RB is out. Now, if only we had someone to replace Rafael when he's out injured. Someone that's equally as good on the ball, bags of pace and great going forward. Hell, if he just so happened to have curly hair and look almost exactly the same that would be a bonus to. Oh wait...
 
Carl said:
Also, it's really not fair to slate him for his performances at RB when he clearly isn't one.

He's being asked to do a job for the team whilst the first choice RB is out. Now, if only we had someone to replace Rafael when he's out injured. Someone that's equally as good on the ball, bags of pace and great going forward. Hell, if he just so happened to have curly hair and look almost exactly the same that would be a bonus to. Oh wait...
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Thing is, they aren't equally as good just because they are twins. Rafael developed a hell of a lot more quickly and better than Fabio did.
 
And Smalling and Valencia are great fullbacks, right? And our replacemant for Evra is one hell of a player, right? All clearly superior fullbacks to Fabio.
 
Amar__ said:
And Smalling and Valencia are great fullbacks, right? And our replacemant for Evra is one hell of a player, right? All clearly superior fullbacks to Fabio.
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It genuinely boggles the mind, the whole Fabio situation. This is someone who started a CL final, it's not like he's completely inexperienced or new to the English game like Varela. He should have at least had a fair crack at playing 2/3 games in a row especially with Jones and Rafael often injured.

As much potential Smalling has shown defensively, he's not even been solid enough at RB this season to compensate for his lack of prowess on the ball.
 
Fabio is struggling at Cardiff and he was poor at QPR. At the end of the day neither Fergie nor Moyes played him regularly on either flank, the former sending him out on loan to try and develop and the latter deeming him surplus to requirements. They watch him every day at training and if they don't think he's up to it neither do I. We've seen him play about 20 games for the first team, some of which he's really disappointed in.

IMO he hasn't developed anywhere near as well as his brother physically, he looks uncomfortable as a left sided player despite supposedly being a left back and doesn't look anywhere near as good defensively either. I think he will end up a good player at a side more suited to him, but I don't think he will ever be United level.

We need to either promote Varela/Janko if they're good enough or bring someone else in for cover, because Smalling isn't a right back and playing him there will do him no favours long term.
 
Eugenius said:
He's really not. O'Shea at LB in 2002/03 was deceptively silky on the ball and used to nutmeg people for fun. Can you see Smalling scoring the goal O'Shea did against Arsenal (weaker foot, no less)? Could you see Smalling ever playing in CM?

Smalling at RB is a big problem since it just means that whenever the ball gets played through him, our attacks break down.

Just to prove this:



Watch from 2.19 O'Shea beats two men with zero support (the first a bit lucky, the second a brilliant piece of skill). He wasn't clumsy, at least before he bulked up a bit.
Click to expand...


JOS had one incredible season when he looked a million bucks in every position he played in and then from there after was a reliable squad player who was dependable defensively but offered very little in the attacking third. Using that as an example is hardly illustrative of his career.

If the JOS of 2003-2009 was part of this squad now and was playing at right full back he would be getting as much criticism as Smalling is now. He was one of the CAF's long term whipping boys along with Park from plenty of posters. Nothing would be surer to send the match day thread into meltdown than JOS in central midfield.

What Young and Valencia get now, used to be the preserve of JOS and Park, albeit perhaps not quite as unanimously across the board as it with Valencia and Young.

Where we miss JOS is as cover for Evra. That's a role that's never been plugged since we let him go.
 
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mufcwarm92 said:
Fabio is struggling at Cardiff and he was poor at QPR. At the end of the day neither Fergie nor Moyes played him regularly on either flank, the former sending him out on loan to try and develop and the latter deeming him surplus to requirements. They watch him every day at training and if they don't think he's up to it neither do I. We've seen him play about 20 games for the first team, some of which he's really disappointed in.

IMO he hasn't developed anywhere near as well as his brother physically, he looks uncomfortable as a left sided player despite supposedly being a left back and doesn't look anywhere near as good defensively either. I think he will end up a good player at a side more suited to him, but I don't think he will ever be United level.

We need to either promote Varela/Janko if they're good enough or bring someone else in for cover, because Smalling isn't a right back and playing him there will do him no favours long term.
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He was far from poor at QPR, and he was far from poor for us when played in seasons before, stop making things up.
 
Amar__ said:
He was far from poor at QPR, and he was far from poor for us when played in seasons before, stop making things up.
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I said 'some of which he disappointed in', which I'm not really sure is debatable at all. He was very unimpressive at QPR, looked consistently suspect defensively in a team who obviously needed to defend more than he did at United. Mate of mine who's been a ST holder there for years reckoned he was utter shite. He showed promise but not enough to be a United player IMO.
 
Only disappointing thing about his performances earlier were his injuries. As for QPR, some sites gave him MOTM in few games while he was there so he couldn't be that bad as you think.
 
Fabio decided to leave in search of first team football. Only speculating here, but it's possible Moyes was made aware of that decision early on and that is why he was never given a proper chance to prove himself. No point keeping him if he wasn't happy with being a bit part player. He was never good enough to be first choice and got injured far too often to be relied upon as a backup option. He's also had a terrible time at Cardiff so far.
 
Mauzindark said:
Let's debunk the "but Fabio was crap at QPR" myth once and for all. From the mouth of 'arry himself :

http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/sport/foot...t_on_manchester_united_loanee_fabio_1_1752484
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/both-da-silva-twins-can-4186667
http://www.rednews.co.uk/forum/show...difficult-year-but-he-will-have-learned-a-lot
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Can't really see how any of those links debunk any myths.

One is Redknapp's opinion after Fabio's first appearance which is along the lines he had a decentish game and the other two are really just the same one quote from Redknapp in that he thinks the experience of the loan would have been good for his development and he's a "good little player". I think Fabio's a good little player as well but I don't know if he is good enough for United and he is struggling defensively for Cardiff in his early games for them. He got absolutely hammered on Soccer Saturday for his defending against Hull.

Edited original comment as got date wrong on one article but point made is the same. There's plenty that Moyes has done to frustrate him but letting Fabio go is not one of them.
 
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I've seen every performance Fabio has had at Cardiff so far, and while it's fair to say he's not up to match speed quite yet, he's been pretty terrible. Bad positioning, frequently caught up the pitch, conceding goals on his side and going off injured in every other match before the end of the 90.

Listen, we all wanted him to work out, followed him through the youth team and loans etc, but sometimes it doesn't happen. I think it was right for the club and player to cut our losses, unfortunately.

The real question is how we have 2 first team full backs in a 25 man squad worthy of being United players. That's some serious negligence.
 
Thing with Smalling which I find odd is that in the past (like last year) for me, he seemed extremely composed on the ball. Like the new Rio, a rolls royce of a defender. I remember one time (I think it was when he was playing for England) and he just beautifully turned 2 opposition players at once.

Now he seems to be a bit clumsy and has forgotten how to pass. Not sure what has happened.
 
Walrus - BFA said:
Thing with Smalling which I find odd is that in the past (like last year) for me, he seemed extremely composed on the ball. Like the new Rio, a rolls royce of a defender. I remember one time (I think it was when he was playing for England) and he just beautifully turned 2 opposition players at once.

Now he seems to be a bit clumsy and has forgotten how to pass. Not sure what has happened.
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He looked really promising when he first came in - he looked really composed, decent on the ball. I genuinely thought with a couple of years under his belt he'd be a guaranteed starter for a decade - for United and England.

He hasn't kicked on and seems to lack confidence. I don't think being played at right back regularly last season and this helps. Full back is a totally different position to centre back - especially in modern football.

There's a bit of that with Jones as well - but he looks more able to fit back into his natural position when he has to.
 
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