How good is Chris Smalling?

LawCharltonBest said:
I think it's harsh to say "it's atrocious"

His ball play is good, you touched upon his decision making which is probably the bigger problem, but something that always improves with experience.
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Atrocious is harsh yes but I was comparing him to our other CBs. Plus I detest kicking the ball away when there's a perfectly legitimate passing option that allows your team to keep possession.
 
I don't think his passing in general is that bad (although I've always thought Evans' was better). The problem is that he thinks he's capable of things that he patently isn't, particularly those long balls over the top which never ever work. He tries at least three or four every match, and I've yet to see one reach a United player.

The Ferdinand comparisons have never helped him. He has a similar excellence in reading the game, and always being in the right place at the right time. But he's not a ball-player - that's Evans, at the moment, who looks easily as comfortable running the ball forwards as a young Ferdinand, and almost as good a passer. Smalling needs to stick to being what he is - the most defensively solid of our younger three, the one to sit back and focus on defending, not try and start attacking moves.
 
I'd say Evans is a better passer than Ferdinand at any stage of his career. That's the only element where he trumps Rio though. He's getting there with his on-the-ball skills, but Rio is out of this world in that regard.
 
He was great with the ball at his feet in his first season, I think we praised him more about that than our any other CB in that time.

He looks a bit nervous these days, he isn't really confident as he used to be in (again) his first season with us, and I think that's the real reason. He is still playing very good, but I think his passing will be back to best once he gets run of few games.
 
I don't recall if I've contributed to this thread, so here I go.

My take is that Chris Smalling can be very good, but that Phil Jones can be -- and I have little doubt that he will be -- legendary for club and country.

They'll make a great partnership. But what about Evans? I really don't know. I like his game but he's still prone to the baffling error. Not the kind of "mistakes" that De Gea makes (allegedly) but whoppers. Fergie will rotate those three as they mature, and all three will be among the best in the English prem for many years to come. But Jones is the special one among those three.
 
My MOTM tonight. Didn't think he put a foot wrong, got England out of trouble a few times. Better than Wilshere
 
Ruud10 said:
I don't recall if I've contributed to this thread, so here I go.

My take is that Chris Smalling can be very good, but that Phil Jones can be -- and I have little doubt that he will be -- legendary for club and country.

They'll make a great partnership. But what about Evans? I really don't know. I like his game but he's still prone to the baffling error. Not the kind of "mistakes" that De Gea makes (allegedly) but whoppers. Fergie will rotate those three as they mature, and all three will be among the best in the English prem for many years to come. But Jones is the special one among those three.
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I'm the oposite. I think that Smalling will become the better player and defender, but Phil Jones will get more credit because of his aggressiveness.

Anyway, I think that he was great tonight, he's so composed for his age and experience.
 
Shark22 said:
I'm the oposite. I think that Smalling will become the better player and defender, but Phil Jones will get more credit because of his aggressiveness.

Anyway, I think that he was great tonight, he's so composed for his age and experience.
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I agree, it's a very British mentality. The reason why so many neutrals rate John Terry's career higher than Rio's (well the people I know). The same reason many rated Scott Parker over Michael Carrick etc etc.

Obviously Phil Jones is genuinely talented, but I think he gets praised for his exuberance rather than his actual skill as a footballer.
 
Shark22 said:
I'm the opposite. I think that Smalling will become the better player and defender, but Phil Jones will get more credit because of his aggressiveness.

Anyway, I think that he was great tonight, he's so composed for his age and experience.
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Likewise.
 
rcoobc said:
My MOTM tonight. Didn't think he put a foot wrong, got England out of trouble a few times. Better than Wilshere
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Thought he was excellent as well. I wonder if it will be Smalling / Evans in the future for United? I can see Jones being a better (arguably even more versitile) version of JOS.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
I agree, it's a very British mentality. The reason why so many neutrals rate John Terry's career higher than Rio's (well the people I know). The same reason many rated Scott Parker over Michael Carrick etc etc.

Obviously Phil Jones is genuinely talented, but I think he gets praised for his exuberance rather than his actual skill as a footballer.
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So true, you can already see this happening with Smalling. He's somehow gone completely under the radar despite being absolutely top class in 90% of games he's played. I can't understand why this country is the way it is. The whole thing is so stupid. I don't know why Townsend was drawing Smalling into Cahill's error tonight...how prepared is someone meant to be when they're partner mindlessly loses the ball and leaves you outnumbered 3-1?! From that point on, 'Smalling and Cahill' were having a blip and a poor game.

Even when Ferdinand was at his best and playing like an all-time great in 2007/08, from memory there was more attention towards Vidic from fans and pundits. I read a lot now about how Ferdinand isn't quite the player he was, but even when he was that player he didn't get anywhere near as much credit as he deserved. I think it was by the end of that season that it was just about universally acknowledged that he was quality, despite the fact that he had been absolutely world class for United since midway through 05/06 and consistently one of England's only top class performers up to that point.

Another way of looking at it...compare the reaction to Terry around 03 -05 to when Rio at his peak (when he was quite easily as good and influential as Cristiano Ronaldo). The whole thing is fecking weird.
 
Not International class according to some on the BBC comments potentially MOTM according to others on here, it's really bizarre.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Not International class according to some on the BBC comments potentially MOTM according to others on here, it's really bizarre.
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Plays for United and is a quality young player, very calm and controlled with excellent positioning. Ie, shit England hack according to non-United fans.
 
I only saw about 10 minutes of this match as I was watching the Ireland match. But from most reports that I have read; it would appear that Smalling didn't have that good a game and apparently him and Cahill were poor throughout. Seems a tad bit strange that some on here have such massivly contrasting opinions.
 
Smalling didn't do too much wrong. Cahill was shite which seems to have lead to some in the media tarring both of them with the same brush. Not his best game but Smalling was solid enough I thought.
 
Plechazunga said:
I'd say Evans is a better passer than Ferdinand at any stage of his career. That's the only element where he trumps Rio though. He's getting there with his on-the-ball skills, but Rio is out of this world in that regard.
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Ferdinand has superior passing stats to Evans this season: 90.5% overall pass completion to Evans 89%. Evans has played less games too. Ferdinand also makes more successful long passes per game on average: 5 to 3.6. Ferdinand's long pass completion rate expressed as a percentage is 75% whilst Evans is 62.5%.

I think that Evans ability is over hyped on here.
 
Agreed with Plech. I think Evans is a better passer than Rio (at least for this season). Rio's long ball to nowhere becomes more noticeable.

On Smalling, he had a solid game, but didn't give a feel of security when attacks came in. I think he could do better when closed down Fred (for Brazil first goal). He didn't show his best attribute as ball playing defender, and feels that he needed to rough up their strikers a bit more.

All set aside, he's one of my favorite United players now, alongside Carrick, Cleverley, de Gea, and Kagawa (who I think will be a wonderful player).
 
Isotope said:
Agreed with Plech. I think Evans is a better passer than Rio (at least for this season). Rio's long ball to nowhere becomes more noticeable.
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That view doesn't match up with the stats. Rio is accurate with a considerably higher percentage of his longs passes: 75% to 63%. Even Smalling has been more accurate with his longs passes, with 68% accuracy, albeit with considerably less attempted. Evans actually has the 9th highest pass completion rate for a defender in the Premier League. The stats say that he isn't the passing God that so many on the CAF seem to perceive.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
That view doesn't match up with the stats. Rio is accurate with a considerably higher percentage of his longs passes: 75% to 63%. Even Smalling has been more accurate with his longs passes, with 68% accuracy, albeit with considerably less attempted. Evans actually has the 9th highest pass completion rate for a defender in the Premier League. The stats say that he isn't the passing God that so many on the CAF seem to perceive.
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Yeah. Weird that. I always thought that passing was actually Evans best attribute over our other centerbacks.
 
Isotope said:
Yeah. Weird that. I always thought that passing was actually Evans best attribute over our other centerbacks.
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In the interest of balance: it does appear that Evans has regressed slightly this season with his passing. Last year he has the 3rd highest pass completion rate for a defender in the Premier League, behind John Terry and Ledley King no less. That season his pass completion rate was 90.1%. Rio was marginally behind with 90%. Rio was still the superior long passer though, completing 78% whilst Evan completed 75%. Rio also made over 40 more long passes than Evans that season.
 
I actually thought he looked really shaky and nervous, particularly on the ball. Brazil at 50 % didn't excactly pose England too many problems. It says something when Glen Johnson looked comfortable defending against Neymar.

Not his best game, but we know what he's got. Can't believe some of you claim him to be MOTM, that's fictional stuff right there.
 
marjen said:
I actually thought he looked really shaky and nervous, particularly on the ball. Brazil at 50 % didn't excactly pose England too many problems. It says something when Glen Johnson looked comfortable defending against Neymar.

Not his best game, but we know what he's got. Can't believe some of you claim him to be MOTM, that's fictional stuff right there.
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Agreed. I was unconvinced by that centre back pairing. Smalling was OK, no more than that though.
 
paceme said:
It is. Rio tends to pass it around the back a lot which will skew his stats.
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I am sure that Evans passes it around the back a lot too. Rio's excellence with, and high number of long passes per game shows that you are talking crap though. Evans is better at bringing the ball out at his feet but he usually moves into space and then plays a simple pass when it is available.
 
Look, I like Smalling, but a ball-player?
Re-watch his last couple of games at home. He panics if he hasn't got an easy pass on.
So much so, he has kicked the ball out of play a couple of times, trying to play it down the line, and by quite a way out.

He'll improve though. Everything else is there.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I am sure that Evans passes it around the back a lot too. Rio's excellence with, and high number of long passes per game shows that you are talking crap though. Evans is better at bringing the ball out at his feet but he usually moves into space and then plays a simple pass when it is available.
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As the saying goes 'you can use stats to prove anything' Rio has had some diabolical games with his distribution this season, where he is misplacing simple passes in dangerous areas or constantly hoofing the ball to nobody in particular, but the stats won't show that, Evans has been very consistent with his distribution though, not to the level of Rio on his best days but he has been more reliable with it. . Just because Evans has a slightly lower pass percentage honestly means feck all.
 
verminater said:
Look, I like Smalling, but a ball-player?
Re-watch his last couple of games at home. He panics if he hasn't got an easy pass on.
So much so, he has kicked the ball out of play a couple of times, trying to play it down the line, and by quite a way out.

He'll improve though. Everything else is there.
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His passing is off this season, but before he's more a ball-player. Likened to younger Rio at some point.
 
verminater said:
Look, I like Smalling, but a ball-player?
Re-watch his last couple of games at home. He panics if he hasn't got an easy pass on.
So much so, he has kicked the ball out of play a couple of times, trying to play it down the line, and by quite a way out.

He'll improve though. Everything else is there.
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Composure on the ball is part and parcel of growing and maturing as a player, especially as a defender.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I am sure that Evans passes it around the back a lot too. Rio's excellence with, and high number of long passes per game shows that you are talking crap though. Evans is better at bringing the ball out at his feet but he usually moves into space and then plays a simple pass when it is available.
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I think that's the key for my perception about Evans. Evans is a better ball distributor than Rio, although Rio has higher passing percentage.
 
marjen said:
I actually thought he looked really shaky and nervous, particularly on the ball. Brazil at 50 % didn't excactly pose England too many problems. It says something when Glen Johnson looked comfortable defending against Neymar.

Not his best game, but we know what he's got. Can't believe some of you claim him to be MOTM, that's fictional stuff right there.
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To be fair, you have to give him bonus points for having to play alongside the mess that is Gary Cahill.

If you had asked a stranger to the England team and it's players who out of Smalling and Cahill is meant to be the older, more experience centre back, they probably wouldn't have a clue.

Smalling is a much better centre back when playing alongside Vidic or Rio, as he is still young and they have experience to lead... and of course there is obviously nothing wrong with that.

Mind you, he also looked impressive when he's alongside Jones, but thats probably due to them being familiar with each other?
 
paceme said:
As the saying goes 'you can use stats to prove anything' Rio has had some diabolical games with his distribution this season, where he is misplacing simple passes in dangerous areas or constantly hoofing the ball to nobody in particular, but the stats won't show that, Evans has been very consistent with his distribution though, not to the level of Rio on his best days but he has been more reliable with it. . Just because Evans has a slightly lower pass percentage honestly means feck all.
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Evans has a considerably lower long pass completion rate and it does mean something - it means that he is less accurate with his long passes. The stats hold more value than your subjective opinion on this matter. You have probably seen a couple of games where Rio has gone west with his passes for a brief period and formed that as your overall opinion, it is what humans do. Evans has had plenty of shit moments this season too.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
To be fair, you have to give him bonus points for having to play alongside the mess that is Gary Cahill.

If you had asked a stranger to the England team and it's players who out of Smalling and Cahill is meant to be the older, more experience centre back, they probably wouldn't have a clue.

Smalling is a much better centre back when playing alongside Vidic or Rio, as he is still young and they have experience to lead... and of course there is obviously nothing wrong with that.

Mind you, he also looked impressive when he's alongside Jones, but thats probably due to them being familiar with each other?
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Likewise. And Smalling playing on the left of the two. I don't think I've ever seen him play on that side with us or U21. I don't know if that does matter, though.
 
With Smalling it's a confidence issue not a talent one with regards to his ball playing, anyone that saw him for England U21's would no doubt recognise the lad's got serious ability with the ball at his feet in centre back situations and is good at distribution, carrying it forward in attack.

Playing for England/United, obviously he's not getting regular games so he's in that situation of not wanting to mess up and do the right things but as a consequence not playing in an exhuberant comfortable manner. He's the type of player who once he cements himself as a first team regular, will showcase what he's made of.
 
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