How Do You Think The Players are Feeling After Yet Another Defeat.

They'll be hiding. Ten Hag uses the term "ill" for any player who's unavailable. It's not surprising that Rashford and Martial got themselves added to the list in a week where the odds of failure are extremely high for us. You don't show up, you're immediately excused.

As Mr. Miyagi said, the best way to avoid a fight is "No be there". Most of our players are cowards and just don't have it in them.
 
I don't think they feel too bothered. There is a culture within the club, based on the individual. ETH speaks as an individual too.

All of them are just drifting through the season. No pressure, no real expectations or demands. Great life if you can get it!
 
In order to answer, you would have to know them personally.
 
JPRouve said:
In order to answer, you would have to know them personally.
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The question is how do you think the players are feeling. You dont need to know them to say what you think.
 
spiriticon said:
Some of them definitely don't. I don't want to bash them anymore than they already are being bashed in their player threads, but their work on the pitch suggests that they really don't. Forget tactics and ability, I don't see a basic desire to even want to win the ball.
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Yeah, it's hard to deny that in many cases. I think for most though it is just lack of ability or game intelligence.
 
Idea for another thread.

"What was the colour of Rashford's turd yesterday after he didn't start and we lost. Do you think it was a turd or a loose, watery one".
 
Some of them will be all of those things. Others will be completely apathetic. You can see by their levels of effort that they don't really mind too much as long as they're getting paid and don't need to work too hard.
 
Buster15 said:
I think that the vast majority of Manchester United fans will be feeling pretty downbeat after yet another defeat and poor team performance.

So how do you think that the players will be feeling. And maybe more to the point, how should they be feeling.
Downbeat. Deflated. Numb. Determined to improve. Annoyed.
Or should they just be thinking about the game against Liverpool.

Edit.
Depressed changed to downbeat so as not to confuse with the clinical term.
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Couldn't care less how these players bar 5 of them feel. They are prolific bottlers and they prbably feel like "oh well, one more setback, at least we have our high wages"
 
Bubz27 said:
The question is how do you think the players are feeling. You dont need to know them to say what you think.
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I need to know someone in order to have an opinion about their feelings, otherwise I don't have an opinion. In my experience other people's feelings aren't things that you can just make up.
 
It's getting very boring of all these lazy generalisations of our players are devoid of professionalism in order to defend massively underperforming manager.

onana has been largely at fault but I doubt he doesn't care, same with Maguire, even varane would care even if purely for egotistical reasons of his past standards as a player, Evans has always had united at heart, you can mock mctominay for his quality but don't start acting like he doesn't care when he has already saved eth on a few occasions, amrabat came to the club because he dreamt of playing at old Trafford and being able to experience ucl football, garnacho clearly has huge confidence in himself and idolise ronaldo and so surely he wants to be competing for trophies.
 
There's enough of them that don't give a damn, and that's why we had such a shocking season so far.

The only positive I saw last night was Ten Hag having to give in and give Varane a game. Varane played well and completely proved Ten Hag wrong to leave him out the past 6 or 7 games.

You could never level it against Varane that he wasn't trying his best. He should be our captain not frozen out or being sold.

Bruno/Casemiro/Martinez should be the vice captain for if and when Varane is missing.
 
JPRouve said:
I need to know someone in order to have an opinion about their feelings, otherwise I don't have an opinion. In my experience other people's feelings aren't things that you can just make up.
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But some people can. I can see someone I've never seen before, see them crying in despair and infer that they are sad. People do it all the time.

Doesn't mean that person will be right but you can most definitely say how you think someone is feeling based on body language, performance, outcomes.
 
Imagine having a boss making you do your job in the completely wrong manner. Day in and day out, you feel that something isn't right. Your customers wonder why things don't result as planned, and your colleagues seem unmotivated most of the time. You are content with your salary and feel that the job is what you wanted. But then again, you feel that the leadership isn't there for you, and the company looks like it's going in the wrong direction.

So the next week, you receive another bad review from a customer, and then your boss says that you are on the right track; it will just take time. It will soon yield good results again. You really don't believe in it and want to quit, but you are not allowed since you have a contract that forces you to work at the place for four years. Good pay, sure, but the gut feeling is not there. You want to express your views, but you aren't allowed. (You heard some of your colleagues did it by talking to people outside of work anyway.)

This is how I think a lot of the players feel. If you remove the high wages and the fame, it may not be such a good place to be in after all.
 
Bubz27 said:
But some people can. I can see someone I've never seen before, see them crying in despair and infer that they are sad. People do it all the time.

Doesn't mean that person will be right but you can most definitely say how you think someone is feeling based on body language, performance, outcomes.
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That's very different. The OP isn't asking you to describe an action or reaction that you are witnessing but to determine how two dozens of people that you are not currently witnessing, that you don't personally know are dealing with adversity. If you can do that then you have special abilities that I don't possess.
 
JPRouve said:
That's very different. The OP isn't asking you to describe an action or reaction that you are witnessing but to determine how two dozens of people that you are not currently witnessing, that you don't personally know are dealing with adversity. If you can do that then you have special abilities that I don't possess.
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They're just asking what you think. You've overcomplicated it.

No one is, or should be, saying anyone's word here is gospel. You're right in that we'll never know. It's just people trying to have a discussion which, neither I or you, have actually contributed to.
 
Bubz27 said:
They're just asking what you think. You've overcomplicated it.

No one is, or should be, saying anyone's word here is gospel. You're right in that we'll never know. It's just people trying to have a discussion which, neither I or you, have actually contributed to.
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I'm not. I said that I don't and can't know, I also said why. I went with the simplest answer which is the opposite of overcomplicating it.
 
spiriticon said:
Eh, you don't need any sort of ability to challenge for possession of a loose football surely? Even Wout can do it. And also these are not relegation level players. You don't win every ball sure, but we lose too many for a team who is supposed to be aspiring to work harder, and in dangerous situations too.

They obviously care about their PR, which is why some of them work harder off the pitch than on it, but that's not really what we need.
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It's nothing to do with ability, it's about confidence..

How many times have you seen an under fire striker take one too many touches when they should have had a shot? How many times have you seen a player take a safe pass rather then a risky one as they are afraid to make a mistake?

Bournemouth aren't a better team then United, but they were on the weekend, why? Because they were confident and believed in everything they did. They tried the risky pass and weren't afraid to make a mistake,
 
Legitimately if I was getting 150-300k a week knowing I could half ass and no consequences I absolutely would. So I sort of don't blame them. Just makes the club a shambles.
 
Champ said:
It's nothing to do with ability, it's about confidence..

How many times have you seen an under fire striker take one too many touches when they should have had a shot? How many times have you seen a player take a safe pass rather then a risky one as they are afraid to make a mistake?

Bournemouth aren't a better team then United, but they were on the weekend, why? Because they were confident and believed in everything they did. They tried the risky pass and weren't afraid to make a mistake,
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I'm not sure why confidence is needed for a player to run up to a loose football and try to put a foot on it. I accept that confidence affects what a player does after they put a foot on the ball, but jesus if you're that fecked up, just play the safest 5 yard pass possible so that we keep possession.

I'm really not asking for much here. No rainbow flicks or 30-yard passes needed. Just the basics.
 
spiriticon said:
I'm not sure why confidence is needed for a player to run up to a loose football and try to put a foot on it. I accept that confidence affects what a player does after they put a foot on the ball, but jesus if you're that fecked up, just play the safest 5 yard pass possible so that we keep possession.

I'm really not asking for much here. No rainbow flicks or 30-yard passes needed. Just the basics.
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Confidence affects every aspect of someone's game, from over thinking, to not making the right choices, to backing out of things.
Confidence is key with football games. You'll win a lot more games with a fully confident team then without.
 
Champ said:
Confidence affects every aspect of someone's game, from over thinking, to not making the right choices, to backing out of things.
Confidence is key with football games. You'll win a lot more games with a fully confident team then without.
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If confidence affects them so much that they can't even do the bare basics... then they can't be professional football players. Then it doesn't matter whether they care or not.
 
We’ve lost half our games this season so they are used to it. I think this is such a weak group that they are probably content with fact they stayed in the game last night and didn’t suffer a heavy loss, they definitely played as if that was the case anyway.
 
spiriticon said:
If confidence affects them so much that they can't even do the bare basics... then they can't be professional football players. Then it doesn't matter whether they care or not.
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Are you honestly serious with this? Hard to tell.
You ever tried performing or speaking in front of hundreds of people?
Tell me how easy it is to speak when you feel low in confidence when standing there compared to if you were super confident.

Pretty sure most would struggle to get their words out, despite being able to speak for most of their life.
 
Champ said:
Are you honestly serious with this? Hard to tell.
You ever tried performing or speaking in front of hundreds of people?
Tell me how easy it is to speak when you feel low in confidence when standing there compared to if you were super confident.

Pretty sure most would struggle to get their words out, despite being able to speak for most of their life.
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I do have that problem. Which is why I am not a public speaker earning 100k per appearance.
 
Roboc7 said:
We’ve lost half our games this season so they are used to it. I think this is such a weak group that they are probably content with fact they stayed in the game last night and didn’t suffer a heavy loss, they definitely played as if that was the case anyway.
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Spot on.
 
spiriticon said:
If confidence affects them so much that they can't even do the bare basics... then they can't be professional football players. Then it doesn't matter whether they care or not.
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This! School boy errors, lack of positioning, wasting shooting opportunities, controlling simple passes, awareness of where your team mates are, knowing when to pass and cross and shoot. This is not lack of confidence, this is carelessness, clumsiness and lack of professionalism.
 
They are satisfied with not getting hammered and are now wondering about their Christmas gifts of Rolex, Bentley, Gucci and all the other absolute tat they blow millions on.

They have blanked the Liverpool game from their minds already, they just wish they didn't have to turn up for it.
 
Scorpy said:
When you get paid despite doing a consistently shite job and know there are no consequences whatsoever, somehow I doubt you'd be giving much of a feck.
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I don’t think you get to be a professional footballer without a certain killer instinct and without being somewhat of a sore loser. So I would assume they’re not feeling too happy about it. Handsomely payed or not.
 
spiriticon said:
If confidence affects them so much that they can't even do the bare basics... then they can't be professional football players. Then it doesn't matter whether they care or not.
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It doesn't really work like that. Confidence affects everyone and it's a bigger issue when the margins are slim which is often shown in sport at the highest level. That's why it's not uncommon for the same set of athletes in Rugby, Football, the NBA, the NFL or any sport to have drastically different results based on their mental state. At the highest level, you can't second guess yourself and if you aren't totally confident, you will easily be outperformed which can be obvious with things that are basic such as the timing or intensity of your challenges/passes/runs or how a poor decision affects your decision making for the rest of a game.

As an example a top level pitcher in the MLB can look and act like a mess just because a couple of hitters managed to get the timing of one of his key grips. These things have happened to nearly all pitchers, they start misplacing pitches or misreading catchers.
 
JPRouve said:
It doesn't really work like that. Confidence affects everyone and it's a bigger issue when the margins are slim which is often shown in sport at the highest level. That's why it's not uncommon for the same set of athletes in Rugby, Football, the NBA, the NFL or any sport to have drastically different results based on their mental state. At the highest level, you can't second guess yourself and if you aren't totally confident, you will easily be outperformed which can be obvious with things that are basic such as the timing or intensity of your challenges/passes/runs or how a poor decision affects your decision making for the rest of a game.

As an example a top level pitcher in the MLB can look and act like a mess just because a couple of hitters managed to get the timing of one of his key grips. These things have happened to nearly all pitchers, they start misplacing pitches or misreading catchers.
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I really am not expecting anything of quality or significant technique. I literally just want to see our players run to a loose football like they mean it and put a foot on it. I'm not even asking them to dribble or cross it.

I cannot possibly lower my standards any more to account for confidence issues.
 
I think they would care a lot more if the fanbase at the grounds starting getting more vocal towards them.

But honestly, no one likes losing - i think what happens is a lot of them don't have the football intelligence or ability to play modern football where possession is highly coveted. They struggle to implement what ETH wants because of this, they like simple counter attacking football because it suits them. So, they go out, try to play to the plan but simply can't. They get down in the dumps mentally because in some ways they know they're already beaten before the ball is kicked.
Some of them will know they aren't good enough for the club, but the club has created an atmosphere of mediocrity and along as they're are getting paid hundreds of thousands of pounds they likely wouldn't get elsewhere, including huge sponsorships from kits and social media they aren't going to force a transfer or rock the boat. They'll just keep putting out the same message every time they lose "we know it's not good enough, we go again" but ultimately nothing changes because of the above.

They know that to get praised put in decent performances they have to get the manager out and hope that one comes in who plays to their strengths.
 
spiriticon said:
I really am not expecting anything of quality or significant technique. I literally just want to see our players run to a loose football like they mean it and put a foot on it. I'm not even asking them to dribble or cross it.

I cannot possibly lower my standards any more to account for confidence issues.
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I know what you want, I'm just making the point that it's the smaller things that are highly affected not the dribbling or crossing but the timing of running to a loose ball, the timing of a shot, whether you are going to go hard, soft or too hard in a challenge, these are the smaller things that are more mental. That's why the same set of players at Real Madrid or Liverpool have over the years looked like world beaters but also during some period of times like pub players.

If we go a bit deeper I think that SAF explained it in an interview years ago. When you build a team you need all types of mentalities, you need players that are generally apathetic because they don't get affected heavily by current results whether they are good or bad. You need players that are very intense because they can lift their teammates during games or training sessions, you need jokers but you also need the always grumpy glass half empty type. And those mentalities won't be possessed by the same players, it's the entire group that creates a balance.
 
JPRouve said:
I know what you want, I'm just making the point that it's the smaller things that are highly affected not the dribbling or crossing but the timing of running to a loose ball, the timing of a shot, whether you are going to go hard, soft or too hard in a challenge, these are the smaller things that are more mental. That's why the same set of players at Real Madrid or Liverpool have over the years looked like world beaters but also during some period of times like pub players.

If we go a bit deeper I think that SAF explained it in an interview years ago. When you build a team you need all types of mentalities, you need players that are generally apathetic because they don't get affected heavily by current results whether they are good or bad. You need players that are very intense because they can lift their teammates during games or training sessions, you need jokers but you also need the always grumpy glass half empty type. And those mentalities won't be possessed by the same players, it's the entire group that creates a balance.
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I think then we have too many apathetic players. We have only the one very intense player (Bruno) which I would say cares TOO much, and McT, Maguire and Antony are a bit grumpy. The majority I find it hard to group in anything else but apathetic.

Maybe the team balance of mentalities is wrong and it's the managers job to sort it out, but the excessive apathy is really glaring on the pitch. For me, anyway.
 
spiriticon said:
I think then we have too many apathetic players. We have only the one very intense player (Bruno) which I would say cares TOO much, and McT, Maguire and Antony are a bit grumpy. The majority I find it hard to group in anything else but apathetic.

Maybe the team balance of mentalities is wrong and it's the managers job to sort it out, but the excessive apathy is really glaring on the pitch. For me, anyway.
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You don't know what we have too much or not. Only the players and coaches have an idea. Though too many apathetic players is the least likely simply because over the years we have witnessed fairly big differences depending on whether we are in form or not.
 
I think the players know there is not enough quality in the team to beat the best teams. I mean, just look at the front 3 last night - Garnacho, Holland and Antony. They are not nearly good enough, or experienced enough to start for MUFC. Would any start for City, Liverpool, Arsenal, or a United team of days gone by? They are development or impact players, at best.

And I don't think the manager has them setup in the right way to beat well organized teams, like Bournemouth. Scott McTominay is not a midfielder but because the forward line is inept, Ten Hag needs his goals.

With all the injuries, I think the players feel they are going to get a hammering on Sunday v Liverpool.
 
JPRouve said:
You don't know what we have too much or not. Only the players and coaches have an idea. Though too many apathetic players is the least likely simply because over the years we have witnessed fairly big differences depending on whether we are in form or not.
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I don't think that is true anymore in the last few seasons. Sure there are periods of good form where we eke out some wins in a row, but largely what we see on the pitch is fairly apathetic (apart from Bruno) and this has been consistent since Ole's final season in my opinion.

We used to get these famed 'responses from the players' in the next match after every defeat, even in the Moyes/LVG/Jose era. These days, the match after a defeat is just the same shit as before. Not even the boos at OT makes a difference.
 
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