How do we sell Harry Maguire?

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MDFC Manager said:
Fair summary. Lot of the stick he gets unfortunately also comes from being the most expensive transfer for a center back, over which he had no control.
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I always think if you're going massive on a transfer fee you need to make sure the rest of team is sound first.

If you sign a centre back and make him the most expensive ever, then drop him into a sub standard team, you're asking for trouble.

The player is skating uphill right from the start regardless of his own shortcomings.

A similar thing happened with Rio actually. Huge money at the time and he came into a team that, althought better than than our current bunch, was still struggling a bit, in transition.

It was not straightforward for him, plenty of criticism came his way about the money being too much. His performances didn't look top class.

Fortunately the teams transition worked a treat. Evera and Vidic came in and from then on Ferdinand looked worth every penny.

A player costing a fortune should be a last piece of the puzzle really. You don't use them as a starting block.
 
Ananke said:
If he wasn’t making stupid amounts of money every week, whilst shifting blame elsewhere I’d be with you. But he lost my sympathy a long time ago.

He doesn’t deserve to play at the level he gets to play at. My sympathy lies with those he has been playing ahead of all this time, who haven’t been given an opportunity.
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Plays ahead of, where? For United or England?

He's no longer a starter at United and he's been solid over the last year or two for England also. I don't pay much attention to England (despite being English) and don't watch them much, but he was being celebrated not long ago by England fans and fast forward a small period of time, they're giving him abuse. They actually turned on him by booing him based on United performances, before he'd even put a foot wrong for England, which made me laugh at the time. He's just an easy target because of the way he is, that's why it feels like bullying almost.
 
trevor newnham said:
Without a doubt he was a pretty effective cb for Leicester, England and us for a while. The modern game has left him found wanting. Ever since that holiday incident and injury he has not been the same. He could probably do with getting out of the limelight so the Hate Harry Bandwagon can move on and find another victim. He is sadly a diminished player but Fred West probably didn't attract this sort of hatred being directed at him. Usual keyboard warriors piling on to the bandwagon, they cannot wait for him to make a mistake. Time to let him go, go find another victim
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This is nonsense though, the only time he looked ok was when the team was sitting back defending deep with a lot of players. He suits Leicester because of it, but not a good team.

He's not at all diminished, this is how he always was
 
Marwood said:
I always think if you're going massive on a transfer fee you need to make sure the rest of team is sound first.

If you sign a centre back and make him the most expensive ever, then drop him into a sub standard team, you're asking for trouble.

The player is skating uphill right from the start regardless of his own shortcomings.

A similar thing happened with Rio actually. Huge money at the time and he came into a team that, althought better than than our current bunch, was still struggling a bit, in transition.

It was not straightforward for him, plenty of criticism came his way about the money being too much. His performances didn't look top class.

Fortunately the teams transition worked a treat. Evera and Vidic came in and from then on Ferdinand looked worth every penny.

A player costing a fortune should be a last piece of the puzzle really. You don't use them as a starting block.
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Too many excuses for a poor player who was never United quality to begin with. You pay that kind of money to improve the first 11 and build a team around. Rio was always a young, athletic center back who was going to grow into the role - and United built an entire world class defence around him. He was the starting block and goes against everything you said. A big transfer doesn't necessarily have to be the last piece of puzzle - history has show this.

Its taken one player (Martinez) replacing Maguire to make a significant upgrade to how we play and perform.

this 'skating uphill' and the team around him stuff is utter nonsense.
 
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pocco said:
I was a critic of his from the start, said he was a terrible signing at the time and I didn't know what Ole was thinking. I've been vocal about it on here. I tend not to comment much now though as, since more and more people started to turn on him, I feel a bit uneasy about the stick he gets.

This is probably the first time I've ever felt this about a player but I feel like it's going too far and I just worry about where it will take him. Anybody else feel the same? I really don't rate him but I feel as though the abuse is almost at a bullying stage with him now.

In terms of his performances, I think the above is already taking effect. Like I said I don't rate him for us, but he's somehow got considerably worse and I'm willing to bet it's because of the stick he's getting.
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It's pretty twisted and perverse to be honest. Every time I check out united on social media it's abuse and criticism and people seem to get a kick out of it. I'm a member on unitedpeople'stv but had to unsubscribe because now the guy Sam use to be fair and measured but now has jumped on the bangwagon of hate making daily clickbait videos smearing and mocking Maguire

The man's confidence has been shattered from all the abuse and then when it effects his performance there is more abuse and ridicule is lumped on from fans of our club. I can understand rival fans doing but own fans praying for a players downfall and taking glee in it is just weird.
 
Hammondo said:
This is nonsense though, the only time he looked ok was when the team was sitting back defending deep with a lot of players. He suits Leicester because of it, but not a good team.

He's not at all diminished, this is how he always was
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100% agree - this isn't about form, this is just how he's always been. Poor decision making, slow, can't pass from the back or deal with a high press - he's never been good at any of this.
 
Maquire has always had limitations, but then many good/great players do and manage to work around them, for Maquire his pace was always sub par but he compensated by having good anticipation, strength, aerial ability and presence, £80 million not a chance but he has been a better than average defender when confident and in the right set up.

I think many people forget the Greece incident, for me this had a big impact on his confidence, he came back at the start of that season and was not the same player, from there it has just spiralled, he has taken a lions share of criticism for utd's bad form last season and I think his confidence has been eroded down to nothing.

I would be more than happy for Maquire to move on, but I also think if he does you will see a resurgence in his form and performances once he is out of the spotlight.
 
Zed 101 said:
Maquire has always had limitations, but then many good/great players do and manage to work around them, for Maquire his pace was always sub par but he compensated by having good anticipation, strength, aerial ability and presence, £80 million not a chance but he has been a better than average defender when confident and in the right set up.

I think many people forget the Greece incident, for me this had a big impact on his confidence, he came back at the start of that season and was not the same player, from there it has just spiralled, he has taken a lions share of criticism for utd's bad form last season and I think his confidence has been eroded down to nothing.

I would be more than happy for Maquire to move on, but I also think if he does you will see a resurgence in his form and performances once he is out of the spotlight.
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If I recall correctly his best form for us came after the Greece incident and leading into the Euros. What has happened since feels like more of a regression to the mean than anything else. Maybe that was just a purple patch?
 
Zed 101 said:
Maquire has always had limitations, but then many good/great players do and manage to work around them, for Maquire his pace was always sub par but he compensated by having good anticipation, strength, aerial ability and presence, £80 million not a chance but he has been a better than average defender when confident and in the right set up.

I think many people forget the Greece incident, for me this had a big impact on his confidence, he came back at the start of that season and was not the same player, from there it has just spiralled, he has taken a lions share of criticism for utd's bad form last season and I think his confidence has been eroded down to nothing.

I would be more than happy for Maquire to move on, but I also think if he does you will see a resurgence in his form and performances once he is out of the spotlight.
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Surely part of being a top player is performing under the spotlight.

Anyway, he's putting himself under pressure. The penalty last night, ok that can happen to anyone. And the second goal wasn't all down to his mistake either, but what the feck was he doing trying to dribble up the pitch? He clearly thinks he's more capable on the ball than he actually is given the fact that we have seen these stupid mistakes repeatedly from him. He's never learned from them. That's the most frustrating thing about him.
 
Roux said:
Too many excuses for a poor player who was never United quality to begin with. You pay that kind of money to improve the first 11 and build a team around. Rio was always a young, athletic center back who was going to grow into the role - and United built an entire world class defence around him. He was the starting block and goes against everything you said. A big transfer doesn't necessarily have to be the last piece of puzzle - history has show this.

Its taken one player (Martinez) replacing Maguire to make a significant upgrade to how we play and perform.

this 'skating uphill' and the team around him stuff is utter nonsense.
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I don't think I'm making excuses for Maguire. His shortcomings are obvious.

I'm just hoping the club realises you don't go massive on a player if the rest of the team isn't upto scratch first.

A record signing at United has enough scrutiny as it is, you don't then drop them in a struggling team.

I don't know if you were watching United when Rio came but if you were, you'd know his arrival didn't result in any transformation of the team. We didn't suddenly become dominant. He needed further signings around him to start warranting his fee.

Really Vidic, Evra, Carrick etc should have been brought in first. Then you go for the Rio type. Give them chance to live up to the fee.
 
Marwood said:
I don't think I'm making excuses for Maguire. His shortcomings are obvious.

I'm just hoping the club realises you don't go massive on a player if the rest of the team isn't upto scratch first.

A record signing at United has enough scrutiny as it is, you don't then drop them in a struggling team.

I don't know if you were watching United when Rio came but if you were, you'd know his arrival didn't result in any transformation of the team. We didn't suddenly become dominant. He needed further signings around him to start warranting his fee.

Really Vidic, Evra, Carrick etc should have been brought in first. Then you go for the Rio type. Give them chance to live up to the fee.
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The club should buy whoever they think will improved the team regardless of price, current state of the team or form... if you have the chance to buy Kevin de Bruyne, you don't go well hmmm my team right now isn't good enough so we'll pass ha! What a silly argument. Bruno Fernandes was another example - really all the good happened after he arrived, instant impact.

Rio arrived when he was 23... a youngster with huge potential - with clear attributes of a potential world class defender - exactly what we needed to build a defence around - but he came first.

Nope - United did the right thing, buy your bedrock first and the fill in the gaps - usually a high value signing is the better player (makes sense).
 
He’ll stay the rest of the season but a move for Jurrien Timber next summer would mean Maguire is certainly finished with us. I don’t think we’ll be able to command a fee for him so a loan move to Italy would make some sense. I’m sure Jose would love to pair him with Smalling at Roma and if they make the champions league, we could demand a decent fee with an obligation to buy clause.
 
Samid said:
Why didn't we sell to Chelsea?!
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Cause we are the stupidest team ever when it comes to transfers. We pay average to poor players world class salaries, then we refuse to sell them, then we extend their contracts in even higher salaries when they have nothing to offer in order to protect their value, then they either leave on a free or on a loan.

And then we say ‘how did Chelsea/City/Liverpool got this much money for that player’? They did by doing precisely the opposite, not giving those ridiculous salaries to those average players, and then selling them when they still have some value.

We will probably extend Maguire’s salary in more money (to keep him happy now that he is not playing), with him being a bad backup for us, to ultimately loan him to Leicester in 3 years. It has been our modus operandi for a decade.
 
We still need him as a backup due to his low injury rate. He is fine as long as the midfield track back to defend, giving him room to defend his space.
 
I feel bad for him at this point, he was obviously never a top player nor had top potential but he was solid. After the euros it's been a disaster for both us and England.

I don't see a way for him at this point, I don't think he can claim back a starting place so he'll be eventually moved to a lower team.
 
Mentally he's just fallen off a cliff. He's not this bad. But it's going to be very difficult to turn it around due to the heat that is on him as a United footballer. He looks like he needs to disappear under the radar and build his confidence.

How that's going to happen given the wages he's on is unclear.
 
To be fair, Maguire ended his losing streak and he almost won. He also did well in the first half.
 
Giggsy13 said:
He’ll stay the rest of the season but a move for Jurrien Timber next summer would mean Maguire is certainly finished with us. I don’t think we’ll be able to command a fee for him so a loan move to Italy would make some sense. I’m sure Jose would love to pair him with Smalling at Roma and if they make the champions league, we could demand a decent fee with an obligation to buy clause.
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Unless someone matches his wage he wont leave :(
 
Roux said:
The club should buy whoever they think will improved the team regardless of price, current state of the team or form... if you have the chance to buy Kevin de Bruyne, you don't go well hmmm my team right now isn't good enough so we'll pass ha! What a silly argument. Bruno Fernandes was another example - really all the good happened after he arrived, instant impact.

Rio arrived when he was 23... a youngster with huge potential - with clear attributes of a potential world class defender - exactly what we needed to build a defence around - but he came first.

Nope - United did the right thing, buy your bedrock first and the fill in the gaps - usually a high value signing is the better player (makes sense).
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I'm talking about huge money signings.

What would be the point in say signing De Bruyne for a world record fee then sticking him in a team that's hovering around 6th?

It's not the way to build. You'll never get value out of that player because no matter how good they are, it is a team sport. They need a functioning team around them to warrant thst fee.

This isn't me defending Maguire. I think his time is up.

Rio was not living upto his fee until the team around him became the real deal.

You get your team sorted first then spend big on that extra special talent.

See Liverpool and van Dyke.
 
sell or rent him to Ajax, we will get him to play football.
Exercise benefits art.
 
Jericho said:
Surely part of being a top player is performing under the spotlight.

Anyway, he's putting himself under pressure. The penalty last night, ok that can happen to anyone. And the second goal wasn't all down to his mistake either, but what the feck was he doing trying to dribble up the pitch? He clearly thinks he's more capable on the ball than he actually is given the fact that we have seen these stupid mistakes repeatedly from him. He's never learned from them. That's the most frustrating thing about him.
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I agree completely, I was more or less responding to the comments on here that Maquire has never possessed any quality as a footballer (not saying he is great or ever has been).

Where I do disagree with you, the penalty last night, no defender for one of the top 10-20 sides in the world should be doing what he did to give that penalty away. He doesn't learn you are right, if he had any sense he would get back to doing the job of a donkey defender, be a brick wall and hoof the ball anywhere you can away from goal, don't get the modern obsession thinking every CB can be a cross between Zidane and Chiellini, that player is very rare, defenders need to defend first.

One of my biggest bugbears when we have Lindelof, Maquire and DeGea together is the persistence of trying to play the ball out from the back, they are all too slow at making the passes, it is like watching a crash in slow motion and not being able to do anything to prevent it, the opposition manager's eyes must light up when he sees that teamsheet, "right lads high press on those 2 and we are away".

In terms of putting himself under pressure, some players cope better with pressure than others, regardless of where it is coming from he clearly lets it affect him, best thing Southgate can do, like ETH has is to take him away from the spotlight.

TBH I was quite glad he had a mare these last 2 games, hoping it gives Southgate no choice but to look elsewhere, but lets face it Southgate's inadequacies as a tactician are now overwhelming the talent he has for man management and teambuilding, he will undoubtedly still put Maquire as first choice CB for England even if he doesn't play another minute for Utd in-between.
 
I would genuinely replace him with any youth player or sell for free not because he is so awful but because there is so much baggage and scrutiny around him where the press go mad and it's distracting and isn't worth the hassle.
 
Marwood said:
I always think if you're going massive on a transfer fee you need to make sure the rest of team is sound first.

If you sign a centre back and make him the most expensive ever, then drop him into a sub standard team, you're asking for trouble.

The player is skating uphill right from the start regardless of his own shortcomings.

A similar thing happened with Rio actually. Huge money at the time and he came into a team that, althought better than than our current bunch, was still struggling a bit, in transition.

It was not straightforward for him, plenty of criticism came his way about the money being too much. His performances didn't look top class.

Fortunately the teams transition worked a treat. Evera and Vidic came in and from then on Ferdinand looked worth every penny.

A player costing a fortune should be a last piece of the puzzle really. You don't use them as a starting block.
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The problem isn’t him being put in a sub standard team. The problem is he is what contributes to making it a sub standard team.

Comparing Rio being introduced to a team with Maguire is just wow. Rio was clearly going to be world class. Maguire never had any sign of getting close.

It’s actually quite fascinating seeing the creative defensive arguments being made for Maguire. Some are just refusing to accept he is a bang average footballer.
 
Noticing the latest line popping up in the English press making out that fans being frustrated with his poor performances (and some idiots descending to outright abuse) is the reason he's playing so badly. Ignoring the fact he has been playing badly for so long that all but a tiny portion of the fan base are utterly fed up with him and don't want him playing for the team any more.

In the words of the great Jack White; you can't take the effect and make it the cause.
 
Marwood said:
I'm talking about huge money signings.

What would be the point in say signing De Bruyne for a world record fee then sticking him in a team that's hovering around 6th?

It's not the way to build. You'll never get value out of that player because no matter how good they are, it is a team sport. They need a functioning team around them to warrant thst fee.

This isn't me defending Maguire. I think his time is up.

Rio was not living upto his fee until the team around him became the real deal.

You get your team sorted first then spend big on that extra special talent.

See Liverpool and van Dyke.
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So am i - Fernandes was a huge signing, one of our biggest fees ever before the recent signings. He was the start of something, not the final puzzle and the exact player we needed at the time even though the team wasn't performing - he took United to a new level.

KDB example - because a player of that quality can take you from 6th to 2nd - just like Bruno did. That's why you pay huge fees - to improve the team.

Van Dyke didn't complete Liverpool - Allison did.

Rio was doing just fine for a 23yo - in fact he was excelling for his age, played regularly and won the league. He was also a bedrock for the England team well before joining United.

Your logic doesn't make any sense or have any proven track record in history. Big signings can be made before or after a rebuild - but usually you make them before so you can build around them - Pogba was another example. So was your own example of Rio - the defence was completed AFTER he joined. If I'm building a car - I'd start with the engine first and build around it right - wouldn't you?
 
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Marwood said:
I'm talking about huge money signings.

What would be the point in say signing De Bruyne for a world record fee then sticking him in a team that's hovering around 6th?

It's not the way to build. You'll never get value out of that player because no matter how good they are, it is a team sport. They need a functioning team around them to warrant thst fee.
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That's a terrible, terrible strategy. Players like De Bruyne are seldom available - when there's one available, you sign him.
 
Skills said:
That's a terrible, terrible strategy. Players like De Bruyne are seldom available - when there's one available, you sign him.
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Indeed. Very strange logic - you'll never improve you team that way and the players you rejected will go elsewhere and improve a rival.
 
Roux said:
Indeed. Very strange logic - you'll never improve you team that way and the players you rejected will go elsewhere and improve a rival.
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Exactly. People here seem to have this mental idea that you can sign whoever you want for the price you want in any given summer, by using some mysterious powers of negotiation.

It's a seller's market. You either sign the players that are in favourable negotiating positions (i.e. are available) or you repeatedly get ripped off like we have been for the last 10 years after we get besotted over the idea of a single player.

The issue with Maguire was that he was never, ever close to being worth that kind of money. Not that we signed him at the wrong time.
 
I'd sell him, even for £25m (could we even get that?!) and not even replace him. Got Lindelof, and McT can shift into defence if need be.

Get some money and claw back some wages
 
Skills said:
Exactly. People here seem to have this mental idea that you can sign whoever you want for the price you want in any given summer, by using some mysterious powers of negotiation.

It's a seller's market. You either sign the players that are in favourable negotiating positions (i.e. are available) or you repeatedly get ripped off like we have been for the last 10 years after we get besotted over the idea of a single player.

The issue with Maguire was that he was never, ever close to being worth that kind of money. Not that we signed him at the wrong time.
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Agree - Maguire and Fellaini were 2 United players who were never ever going to be good for us imo, i knew this before they signed. But, you can look at players like Pogba/Di Maria/Sancho and understand why we went for them. You have to have technical ability - something Pep Guardiola understands - every player he signs has exceptional technical ability.

Never thought we'd sign Casemiro or Varane - especially from where United are now vs Madrid, but i'm so glad we did - type of players you cannot ignore.
 
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How do well sell him? For starters he needs to not carry his club form over to his international form. Our best hope is he has a solid world cup, then and maybe then we can salvage a respectable fee for him.

Though I fear he's been meme'd to the point that other clubs would be apprehensive to sign him knowing the fan backlash they'd probably expect. So perhaps he's better off going abroad to a league which players a slower game.
 
Abraxas said:
Mentally he's just fallen off a cliff. He's not this bad. But it's going to be very difficult to turn it around due to the heat that is on him as a United footballer. He looks like he needs to disappear under the radar and build his confidence.

How that's going to happen given the wages he's on is unclear.
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This...his mind is totally shot. He needs a smaller club to get his confidence back up. He's not been nearly as much of a disaster as many have made him on here for us historically. I think his first few seasons he was quite good for us IMHO. This year he's been practically unplayable.

When a CB loses confidence you start seeing the clumsy tackling and positioning issues that his game is riddled with right now. I have no idea if he can overcome them at this point, but I have a feeling he won't be able to with the scrutiny that comes with playing for United and England. I wouldn't be surprised if Southgate has to drop him for the WC...sad but fair.
 
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