In what sense? I've also thought he's been a bit conservative with changes. Betis away should have seen changes at half time I reckon. I'm guessing the analytics department must have some rather good data for him to lean on.
How do we maintain playing every 3 days for the rest of the season?
- Thread starter PoTMS
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I don't buy in the fatigue argument and I don't think ETH does either. But I think it hurts us in terms of preparation, and also some players might struggle mentally to challenge on different fronts.
I don't get the lack of rotation argument because all in all I think ETH has been rotating wisely. I don't look at anyone outside Bruno and worry.
I don't get the lack of rotation argument because all in all I think ETH has been rotating wisely. I don't look at anyone outside Bruno and worry.
In the same sense as you it seems. For me, this approach of ‘we take every game seriously and we want to win every one’ is fine, but we are dealing with real human athletes who need to be at their optimum. Ten Hag could very possibly play the same team he’d play for Barcelona away again Shrewsbury at home from what I see. Players like Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro, De Gea seem to play all the time. We have 3 goalkeepers and there is no rotation in Europe, Cup games - nothing.
He came with a reputation of very minimal rotation and he has lived up to that here as far as I can see.
There's only 2 days rest between the EL Final and the FA Cup final.. 
Nailed on that Southgate will play Rashy if the latter doesn't rule himself out.
Would be so typical, benching him at the world cup when his form was red hot and then starting him when he very clearly needs a break.
It's just a myth which has taken a life of its own.
The schedule this season is insane. If we make it into the Europa SF's, we're going to continue to have a game every 3/4 days until the end of May. If we make both finals, that continues into June. The performances have dropped off over the last month. I can't see the lads continuing to win for much longer.
Resting players in the cups would feel like a waste at this point. We're in a QF and SF. We have to go for them. I hope ETH tries to rotate a little more in the league. Winning Europa would give us a spot in the CL, so finishing in the top 4 won't matter as much. Our rivals are mostly only going to play one game a week. They have a big advantage over us in the league.
Resting players in the cups would feel like a waste at this point. We're in a QF and SF. We have to go for them. I hope ETH tries to rotate a little more in the league. Winning Europa would give us a spot in the CL, so finishing in the top 4 won't matter as much. Our rivals are mostly only going to play one game a week. They have a big advantage over us in the league.
the form he is in means he has no choice but to play him.
He can't really justify any of the other left forward options ahead of him now?
So third in the League, won one trophy, in one semi and in a European quarter final.
Injuries to Martial, Eriksen, Van de Beek, Garnacho, Varane.
Suspension to Casemiro.
No money to spend in January so two budget loan options brought in.
Tell us all. Just what more would you have liked to have seen from the manager?!
You young folks forget that this congested schedule was typical through the mid/late 90s and into the 2000s.
You need squad depth and rotation. Our Treble year we had Cole/Yorke and Sheringha,/Solskjaer as our forward rotations for example.
You need squad depth and rotation. Our Treble year we had Cole/Yorke and Sheringha,/Solskjaer as our forward rotations for example.
Taking into account our thin squad, injuries, the World Cup, and our Cup runs, then our achievements to date look even more impressive.
I refuse to criticise the team from here on in, come what may. They're superheroes.
I refuse to criticise the team from here on in, come what may. They're superheroes.
Whilst this is true, we will have played every midweek from November to the end of the season if we get through in europe, that's pretty unusual.
This is the thing. We’ve actually been rotating a lot. Other than Bruno and Rashford pretty much everyone has sat out 2-3 games. Ironically the player who runs the most and doesn’t appear fatigued is Bruno, the one playing every fecking game. Second to that is Fred who again rarely looks fatigued to me.
I think it’s just an easy explanation for a lot of people to explain our drop in performance level when actually it’s because of numerous reasons.
- Casemiro and Eriksen aren’t playing
- Shaw and Martinez aren’t in their best form
- psychologically there’s been a slight dip since winning the Carabao Cup.
- Weghorst
It’s going to be a massive struggle with our thin squad and there will be more injuries. I think we’re already starting to see a drop off. Still hopeful we can drag ourselves over the line in the league and by some miracle win the Europa.
I think this is a much bigger issue than fatigue and maybe explains the minimal rotation, the lack of time to prepare for a game is a big deal especially when a new manager is trying to implement a new style of play. If you can't prepare adequately it makes sense to go with the team you know links well and has more experience than fringe players of playing the way you want them to.
And he's probably going to have to learn the hard way it seems. I do think he has not quite grasped the demands of English football yet and that's understandable.
It’s really not a big deal as it’s being made out. At this point in the season training will be absolute minimal, it’s all about recovery. If he utilises the squad, properly, most players will average around 50 to 70 minutes of high intensity every three days, which really isn’t that big a deal
Most don't do it playing the same 13 or 14 players every 3 days mind.
If Ten Hag played a second string squad and lost a couple of matches, people here will be pouncing on him to get the sack. Remember that game against West Ham last year when we rested Ronaldo because things were rosy, lost and hell broke loose and our season fell apart from there?
Since start of the year:
PL: 5w, 2d, 2l
LC: 4w
FA: 4w
EL: 3w, 1d
Total: 16w, 3d, 2l = 2.43points/game
If it's working for ETH, why alter?
Since start of the year:
PL: 5w, 2d, 2l
LC: 4w
FA: 4w
EL: 3w, 1d
Total: 16w, 3d, 2l = 2.43points/game
If it's working for ETH, why alter?
The difference is there was no World Cup plonked in the middle of the season. Even in our most successful seasons I don't remember us competing very often on four fronts either. Even in 98/99 we were dumped out of the League Cup by Spurs in round 3 or 4.
I really appreciate Wehgorst's effort and he has been a vital option for us at times, but reminding us of a time when we had Yorke, Cole, Sheringham and Solskjaer to call on at the same time really highlights how well ETH is doing with such limited resources.
Hopefully after the break we get Martial, Eriksen back and Garnacho's injury isn't too bad. We'll miss Casemiro during his suspension but at least he'll be getting a good rest.
We just have to start rotating a bit more.
We just have to start rotating a bit more.
We start to give more game time to some of the young players like Pelliatri, Iqbal, Mainoo. A fresh young player that want to prove his quality should be a better option than an experienced and good player with no energy left to run or think correct
No. I said what I said, keep it moving.
While I agree with you to an extent and especially with Bruno, Rashford & Casemiro you can sometimes see that they're running on fumes.
But we have also rotated at least semi-heavily every now and then, especially in domestic cups. Perhaps not the whole team at once, but that's probably smart to be honest.
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Anybody got an encyclopaediac knowledge of the international scene want to fill us in on what our players are facing during the break? Are Brazil, Argentina, Holland or Portugal playing? Who do England face? How many matches etc?
Edit: looking on Google I can see the following (update if you know of others)
Euros: I see Italy play England. Shaw, Rashford and Maguire probably have to play!
Portugal v Liechtenstein - not too bad. Change of scene and easy enough opposition.
Morocco v Brazil (not sure if it’s a friendly)
Argentina v Curaçao
Korea v Uruguay
Argentina play Panama in a friendly
Edit: looking on Google I can see the following (update if you know of others)
Euros: I see Italy play England. Shaw, Rashford and Maguire probably have to play!
Portugal v Liechtenstein - not too bad. Change of scene and easy enough opposition.
Morocco v Brazil (not sure if it’s a friendly)
Argentina v Curaçao
Korea v Uruguay
Argentina play Panama in a friendly
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Our form since winning the cup is a concern. The thrashing by Liverpool, failing to beat Southampton and being out played by Fulham for 70 minutes at OldTrafford. Without Erikson and Cassamiro we remain a transition team, scoring in moments With no control of midfield or the game.
Hopefully see Erikson back in the next couple of weeks, before his injury a lot on here were getting on his back but we are sorely missing him.
Hopefully see Erikson back in the next couple of weeks, before his injury a lot on here were getting on his back but we are sorely missing him.
If only it was so simple. 13 straight weeks of midweek matches, they don't HV time to recover. Running on fumes at the moment
No team in Europe has played more than United this season.
We are going to see some sloppy performances here and there…it’s makes evaluating every players performance after a game pointless at this stage.
Just about getting results at this stage.
We are going to see some sloppy performances here and there…it’s makes evaluating every players performance after a game pointless at this stage.
Just about getting results at this stage.
I don't think fatigue is a major issue.
We're missing a few key players like Eriksen and Casemiro who are very good with their creative forward passing.
There's no obvious replacement for them.
We're missing a few key players like Eriksen and Casemiro who are very good with their creative forward passing.
There's no obvious replacement for them.
So you won’t back up what you said? poor form
Shaw was very direct in his post match that the players are shattered. Incredible number of games combined with the ETH pressing style means there is always a danger of collapse or regression when fatigue sets in
Cry me a river.
When I was a boy I walked 20 miles both ways uphill 8 days a week with rickets and the consumption carrying a bag of coal to get to school.
When I was a boy I walked 20 miles both ways uphill 8 days a week with rickets and the consumption carrying a bag of coal to get to school.
Sancho, McTominay, Sabitzer, AWB, Maguire. That's half of yesterday's team that should be completely fresh.
It boils down to a couple of players being overworked. The rest are fine.
We have big squad and should be able to rotate. Need to trust the squad players more. This is also a very good preparation and experience for next year where we will hopefully also be competing for CL, EPL, FA and Carabao.
This is a modern day top team schedule year in year out nowadays. Soon we will also have Club World Cup coming. Next year we should have bigger squad and higher quality for both starting 11 and squad players.
This is a modern day top team schedule year in year out nowadays. Soon we will also have Club World Cup coming. Next year we should have bigger squad and higher quality for both starting 11 and squad players.
Yep, it was normal to see us play 2 games a week, it was just standard. A big squad helped. Even the guys who were not that great, were always reliable. The John O Shea's and Phil Nevilles of the world did a job when called upon - no messing about. Hopefully with some players back we'll be ok - but need to work on the squad in the summer. No point having players we can't trust.
We will struggle that's what will happen.
Players like Sancho or Mct who were supposed to be fresh, looked more tired that Bruno/Rashford. And we haven't seen the lazy Martial in action yet.
Pellistri and Garnacho always look ready for action, but Pellistri rarely plays and Garnacho is injured.
Players like Sancho or Mct who were supposed to be fresh, looked more tired that Bruno/Rashford. And we haven't seen the lazy Martial in action yet.
Pellistri and Garnacho always look ready for action, but Pellistri rarely plays and Garnacho is injured.
Infantino wants more football.
Its so easy isnt it, just have a big squad and rotate the players well. Such an easy thing to say. The problem is this just keeps the whole system of big super rich super teams swallowing up all the players and even more limited chances for smaller clubs to win big titles. We are already complaining about teams like Chelsea having monster squads.
SAF used to do that many years back. Carabao and FA Cup were mainly for youth and squad players. CL and EPL usually were the first 11. He also rotated and mixed both the combination well across competition to ensure we challenged for 3 or 4 trophies. He was obviously very successful. It's what most top team do anyway.
Club World Cup I think will be played in the off season during summer and if the prices money are huge I think the club will also take it seriously like World Cup.
We have a break you all say but how many of our squad are on international duty? The majority probably still plays 2 games this week and often with a long trip across a continent added as well.
The biggest problem is Casemiro missing the games and that is not down to fatigue.
Other big problem is Shaw looks tired. The rest of the players I don't see any difference.
Bruno is an enigma here. Sometimes he looks tired, then he sprints like he just entered the pitch. I think his erratic style makes it look like he's tired by I am not sure.
Surprisingly I think even with Eriksen we're not getting any "bad" results overturned so we've done very well without him.
Other big problem is Shaw looks tired. The rest of the players I don't see any difference.
Bruno is an enigma here. Sometimes he looks tired, then he sprints like he just entered the pitch. I think his erratic style makes it look like he's tired by I am not sure.
Surprisingly I think even with Eriksen we're not getting any "bad" results overturned so we've done very well without him.