How do Brighton find so many wonderkids?

Dazzmondo said:
Ok, I misunderstood that you were simply giving the club's reasoning for behaving this way. I thought you were suggesting you agreed with that approach. Apologies.

We haven't been competitive since Ferguson left so I don't think the Utd fan base would be any less patient than they already are with the likes of Antony, Sancho and Martial. I actually feel like most on here are generally less harsh towards Garnacho than any of those 3. Yes he gets criticised when he plays badly, as does everyone, but it's not like people want to hound him out of the club. Most still see the big potential he has.
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No worries mate, that’s what forums are for!

Re Garnarcho, I think it’s only a matter of time before people start losing patience. It’s only been two games started but some reactions here have already been that he shouldn’t be played as a starter again. Another couple of games of that and the mob would be calling for blood with Twitter and Instagram football accounts starting to make memes. It would be enough to damage the kid’s confidence.

These kids need a caring environment and special care to develop and thrive, something that big clubs can hardly afford unfortunately. Once you come under the lights of Old Trafford or the Bernabeu or any other big club, suddenly millions of people are watching you and expect things from you
 
Dazzmondo said:
Take johnnyteutonics' example of Arsenal then if you insist only Brighton and small clubs can operate that way. Arsenal invested in youth that weren't necessarily considered to be superstars at the time and it's helped them become the 2nd best team in the league with one of the youngest squads.

Chelsea are trying the same approach currently. We'll probably be able to judge in 3-5 years how successful it's been for them
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Massive clubs such as Arsenal and City absolutely can attain success by relying heavily on promising young players. I don't know the life story of Phil Foden, but that's a success story for City. Sure, they buy big too, as Arsenal do as well.

Off the thread topic a bit, but over the last decade United have been poor in their big buys -- I would say primarily because we had egomaniacs as managers between Moyes and Ole and that Moyes and Ole were in way over their heads and got sucked into panic buys. Sanchez may be at the top of epic flop list, but the list is long and, at least so far, Antony looks more like a flop than a brilliant buy. We've done as well as could be reasonably expected with our academy graduates but we're no La Masia.

I think we're on track to muddle along in the mud of top four scrapes, but as long as the Glazers are control of the club there is no realistic path toward us ever becoming a favorite to lift the PL trophy. We might even put in a plucky challenge, but I would advise anyone who supports United to go ahead and make vacations plans for late May/early June for as many years as you wish until we finally get rid of the shopping mall magnates from central Florida.
 
big_jeffstar said:
They just have a profile of player they need for the football they actually want to play, then they can develop them with absolutely no pressure.
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I don't understand why people keep saying these young players can be developed with absolutely no pressure playing for Brighton or BVB. These young players have to fight against relegation, fight for an europe spot, fight for their first team spot, and most importantly fight for their next big move and next big fat contract. They are always under pressure.

What these young players get in Brighton/BVB is first team experience, rather than the bench of a big club with lots of competition for a starting spot.
 
There is nothing stopping United buying a bunch of these type of players for £3m each and then just loaning them out and have a say in their development.

If they make the grade then they come back to United.

If they dont make it then they get sold for a pack of gravel and we lose £3m, considering what we pay for a player, this does not need to work out that often to be a worthwhile.

I just think Brighton's set up as a club in general is just levels above United.
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
There is nothing stopping United buying a bunch of these type of players for £3m each and then just loaning them out and have a say in their development.

If they make the grade then they come back to United.
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As an agent I would absolutely against this idea and advise my client do not entertain this idea at all. Same reason Olise rejected Chelsea and stayed with Crystal Palace.
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
And your reason being ?
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I would want my client has full control of his own development, and has a stable environment to focus on his football, rather than loan out every year to different clubs with different managers, teammates, and tactics.
 
I wonder sometimes if there's an element of luck about it. Just a few that came off.

Before Brighton it was Liverpool. Before them it was Leicester. Before them Southampton.

All lauded as clubs, how well run they were, how good their scouting was.

Then for each one it suddenly stopped happening.

Will be interesting to see if Brighton keep it going.
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
There is nothing stopping United buying a bunch of these type of players for £3m each and then just loaning them out and have a say in their development.

If they make the grade then they come back to United.

If they dont make it then they get sold for a pack of gravel and we lose £3m, considering what we pay for a player, this does not need to work out that often to be a worthwhile.

I just think Brighton's set up as a club in general is just levels above United.
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That's literally what I do in Football Manager and what seems to be an easy hack, but in real life top prospects would never agree for such career trajectory.
 
It's an impressive recruitment model but it's a lot easier to absorb the risk associated with these kinds of transfers for a club like Brighton than the clubs at the very top level. They've fostered a good environment for these players to develop in but most of it boils down to pressure and opportunity. There's no real pressure on these players to deliver because the expectation levels are inherently different at Brighton, and they can therefore afford to give these players the opportunity that bigger clubs can't.

It will only become harder for Brighton to do this on a consistent basis now they are playing European football and recognised as a team who play good football.
 
Red Star One said:
That's literally what I do in Football Manager and what seems to be an easy hack, but in real life top prospects would never agree for such career trajectory.
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Chelsea were doing this in the 2000s. They're still doing it (or have moved back partly towards that model now), with half the new signings being loaned out. Brighton, it's maybe worth noting, also tend to loan their smaller signings out to Belgium for at least a year before integrating them, with 1-2 exceptions. You just have to be able to demonstrate a clear development plan, ideally including a past record of bringing those same 'minor' or spec signings eventually into the first team. A number of us thought this would form a greater part of the ETH era model, particularly with the Sporting Director system apparently revamped and the recruitment process supposed to be more team or scout-SD-manager collaborative rather than Jose/Ole era models of personal scouts and buying in expensive (often old or overvalued British respectively) 'talent'. .
 
Marwood said:
I wonder sometimes if there's an element of luck about it. Just a few that came off.

Before Brighton it was Liverpool. Before them it was Leicester. Before them Southampton.

All lauded as clubs, how well run they were, how good their scouting was.

Then for each one it suddenly stopped happening.

Will be interesting to see if Brighton keep it going.
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I'd say more bad luck to flip it around. Even with good scouting a handful of signings not panning out as well as expected and you're suddenly in a downward spiral.
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
There is nothing stopping United buying a bunch of these type of players for £3m each and then just loaning them out and have a say in their development.

If they make the grade then they come back to United.

If they dont make it then they get sold for a pack of gravel and we lose £3m, considering what we pay for a player, this does not need to work out that often to be a worthwhile.

I just think Brighton's set up as a club in general is just levels above United.
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Well it helps that Tony Bloom also owned / part owned that Union St whatever in Belgium as well. So they are able to have more control over the players development while there.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
I don't understand why people keep saying these young players can be developed with absolutely no pressure playing for Brighton or BVB. These young players have to fight against relegation, fight for an europe spot, fight for their first team spot, and most importantly fight for their next big move and next big fat contract. They are always under pressure.

What these young players get in Brighton/BVB is first team experience, rather than the bench of a big club with lots of competition for a starting spot.
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but not every kick of a ball they make is over analysed by the media, not to mention their private lives, of course they have the standard pressures of football, but let’s say they exit the europa league early… so what? No big deal, they weren’t expected to win it anyway.. it’s a different kettle of fish when you’re expected to perform, entertain and win every single game.
Had a few bad games? .. oh dear, now the Athletic have written an article about your performance at all of your previous clubs and how you don’t fit the current system.. it’s pretty horrendous when you think about it.
 
big_jeffstar said:
but not every kick of a ball they make is over analysed by the media, not to mention their private lives, of course they have the standard pressures of football, but let’s say they exit the europa league early… so what? No big deal, they weren’t expected to win it anyway.. it’s a different kettle of fish when you’re expected to perform, entertain and win every single game.
Had a few bad games? .. oh dear, now the Athletic have written an article about your performance at all of your previous clubs and how you don’t fit the current system.. it’s pretty horrendous when you think about it.
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Dan Ashworth put the system in place at BHA when he was their DoF. Dan Ashworth is now DoF at Newcastle where he is replicating his work.
 
Random Precision said:
Dan Ashworth put the system in place at BHA when he was their DoF. Dan Ashworth is now DoF at Newcastle where he is replicating his work.
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No he didn't. The system at Brighton comes directly from Bloom and StarLizard. They use all the data + algorithms to identify players. They have access to probably 100x more data than any club bar Brentford + know exactly what metrics are required to win football matches. Bloom's algorithm is the most sophisticated in the world at predicting football matches, identifying players and working out exactly what is needed for each position. Ashworth is very good at his job, but the systems in place at Brighton in terms of identifying players initially, has very little to do with the actual football club.
 
Spiersey said:
No he didn't. The system at Brighton comes directly from Bloom and StarLizard. They use all the data + algorithms to identify players. They have access to probably 100x more data than any club bar Brentford + know exactly what metrics are required to win football matches. Bloom's algorithm is the most sophisticated in the world at predicting football matches, identifying players and working out exactly what is needed for each position. Ashworth is very good at his job, but the systems in place at Brighton in terms of identifying players initially, has very little to do with the actual football club.
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This is true - you have to think of StarLizard as almost like a hedge fund rather than what essentially is a sports betting advisor. I do think it is 'easier' for a club at the lower end of the PL to find the players that the top clubs will then pay a lot of money for (and often make them look a lot better than they are in doing so because they'll have a very set tactical system) but then you have to give credit to Brighton and Brentford for doing it so much better than the other clubs around them.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
This is true - you have to think of StarLizard as almost like a hedge fund rather than what essentially is a sports betting advisor. I do think it is 'easier' for a club at the lower end of the PL to find the players that the top clubs will then pay a lot of money for (and often make them look a lot better than they are in doing so because they'll have a very set tactical system) but then you have to give credit to Brighton and Brentford for doing it so much better than the other clubs around them.
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For sure but they are at a massive advatange over every other club in the world really by having access to StarLizard and Smartodds data. It would probably cost any other team £100 mil + per season to even come close to replicating the scale of their data collecting, and that's without having access to the algorithms to interpret them properly. It just isn't financially viable for any club to gather similar levels of data unless you're able to use it for betting. Obviously, they do deserve credit for being able to implement it so well and identify exactly what they need, but it is a massive advantage.

The big benefit is definitely knowing exactly what metrics they require for each position. That's probably the reason that players tend to look worse once they leave. They've been signed by Brighton for specific reasons/roles, which probably even the player themselves aren't aware of, let alone their new club. It's genuinely incredible the data they hold on players and how well they are able to use it. Bloom is a genius, the algorithms they use are just ridiculously good.
 
Random Precision said:
Dan Ashworth put the system in place at BHA when he was their DoF. Dan Ashworth is now DoF at Newcastle where he is replicating his work.
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Great.. it still doesn’t compare to Manchester United, last year Newcastle lost to Sheffield Wednesday and nobody cared, if that was United, the players would never be allowed to forget it.. the levels expected of them constantly are much higher
 
Spiersey said:
For sure but they are at a massive advatange over every other club in the world really by having access to StarLizard and Smartodds data. It would probably cost any other team £100 mil + per season to even come close to replicating the scale of their data collecting, and that's without having access to the algorithms to interpret them properly. It just isn't financially viable for any club to gather similar levels of data unless you're able to use it for betting. Obviously, they do deserve credit for being able to implement it so well and identify exactly what they need, but it is a massive advantage.

The big benefit is definitely knowing exactly what metrics they require for each position. That's probably the reason that players tend to look worse once they leave. They've been signed by Brighton for specific reasons/roles, which probably even the player themselves aren't aware of, let alone their new club. It's genuinely incredible the data they hold on players and how well they are able to use it. Bloom is a genius, the algorithms they use are just ridiculously good.
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And having a superb head coach isn’t hurting us either. Looking at the development of March, for instance, is quite astonishing. He has to be very close to an England call up (or at least would be, if Southgate wasn’t so averse to picking Albion players).
 
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