How can we sort out the problem of lack of energy, intensity, concentration?

There is no solution, we’re looking for years, no coach has found it and we had several great coaches during these times. The players aren ‘t up for it but they get rewarded with big contracts so we can’t sell them. Bad management.
 
We can play a high intensity game as shown against Liverpool. Admittedly the team were gassed & started to cede territory later on. We had built a lead though so when we did concede we still managed to win.

We cannot play high intensity for 90 mins atm. This could be due to players fitness, attitude or PEDS. We should though be starting every game against the lesser teams with a high intensity. This, when we play them should enable us to build a lead. When we do tire it's unlikely the opponents will have the quality to get anything from the game. The southampton & Leicester games were worrying as it seemed we turned up expecting an easy day & ended up huffing & puffing to narrow wins.
 
My belief is that we can't play at a high intensity because we don't keep the ball well enough. You need to have upwards of 60% to play at the intensity that City and Liverpool do on a regular basis, because I think it's impossible to do this when you only have 40-50% possession.

I think that's why we have reverted to counter-attacking football these past weeks. It's clear to me that ETH has prioritised just winning games by any means to get us going this season. The football we're playing isn't what he wants to do, but we're at the beginning of this journey.

Rishford, McTomiany, Elanga and Co are not his type of player I think, but they fit what he's trying to do right now, but probably not what he wants long term.

I think the lack of energy was bizarre for a derby, but looking back on it, I'd say it was more a lack of belief that we could actually win the game. That's hugely disappointing.

Concentration is more of an individual issue I think, and possibly a lack of leadership on the pitch. Plenty for ETH to work on.
 
eire-red said:
My belief is that we can't play at a high intensity because we don't keep the ball well enough. You need to have upwards of 60% to play at the intensity that City and Liverpool do on a regular basis, because I think it's impossible to do this when you only have 40-50% possession.

I think that's why we have reverted to counter-attacking football these past weeks. It's clear to me that ETH has prioritised just winning games by any means to get us going this season. The football we're playing isn't what he wants to do, but we're at the beginning of this journey.

Rishford, McTomiany, Elanga and Co are not his type of player I think, but they fit what he's trying to do right now, but probably not what he wants long term.

I think the lack of energy was bizarre for a derby, but looking back on it, I'd say it was more a lack of belief that we could actually win the game. That's hugely disappointing.

Concentration is more of an individual issue I think, and possibly a lack of leadership on the pitch. Plenty for ETH to work on.
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Agree with all this.

A player can only run so much. They can't go 90 mins without the ball, chasing around after a team that passes for the sake of it.

As much as City dominated I bet first half their keeper still had more of the ball than some of our players. I find it incredibly boring but the way they circulate the ball tires opponents. Its very effective.

This particular game yeah a lack of confidence and belief. We've all been there. If you're unsure of yourself it's stifling.
 
DickDastardly said:
Give the coach time.

For the first time in a long time we finally have a manager who knows what he's doing.

When they finish the season and get to know each others, it will become second nature.

It's just like geology - it takes pressure and time.
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100% This!

No manager in football history would have been able to join the club this summer and wave a magic wand and get them all playing well!

Ten Hag has shown by dropping Ronaldo that he doesn't care for ego's or reputations of players. He will gradually filter out all the players that can't be bothered to put the effort in.
 
eire-red said:
My belief is that we can't play at a high intensity because we don't keep the ball well enough. You need to have upwards of 60% to play at the intensity that City and Liverpool do on a regular basis, because I think it's impossible to do this when you only have 40-50% possession.

I think that's why we have reverted to counter-attacking football these past weeks. It's clear to me that ETH has prioritised just winning games by any means to get us going this season. The football we're playing isn't what he wants to do, but we're at the beginning of this journey.

Rishford, McTomiany, Elanga and Co are not his type of player I think, but they fit what he's trying to do right now, but probably not what he wants long term.

I think the lack of energy was bizarre for a derby, but looking back on it, I'd say it was more a lack of belief that we could actually win the game. That's hugely disappointing.

Concentration is more of an individual issue I think, and possibly a lack of leadership on the pitch. Plenty for ETH to work on.
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I agree, there's also the timing of the press and/or of when to put your foot on the gas and overrun the opponent. Big teams know when to do that, when they smell blood, we also knew in the past when we had a great team. Basically the bigger side dictates the tempo, City started on a high note and when the game was done and dusted they slowed down.
 
Be more cutthroat with wage increases and player sales. That'll wake them up.

Don't readily give players millions for the sake of it, and don't hesistate to sell consistently underperforming players.

If they are done, they are done. No point eternally hoping for them to come good.
 
I’m loving my life said:
Players should be dropped if they don’t perform. Simple. Fear of their places should drive them and if it doesn’t they should be sold
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Not really, because then the players that would be coming in would largely be inferior to the players being dropped, making the team worse. The answer is in getting the whole team better prepared physically and mentally.
 
People talk about pressing as some kind of maniac running around. No. It's actually very short running if done as a team.
These players apart from the Ajax players and Sancho has not played a pressing game. I am sure that we can press. It's what to do with the ball when we have it is our problem. We have a CF who can't hold the ball nor head it. A DM who cants pass the ball and an AM who can't keep possession. What else can be expected.
 
Well obviously some of the players are just not up to snuff.

That said, one thing that happens in a coaching change is the new gaffer lays out his new priorities. This causes a bit of hesitation as old habits have to be discarded, and new habits learned (and let's be honest a few of our players are not really suited for this system). Throw in all the new players and they each have to learn individual habits as well as the system. But some of the players already played for ETH at Ajax. And that was Ajax, this is United, and that in and of itself still makes it different.

So new Manager, new players, old players, some players ill suited to the system, some players lacking the bottle for such big games... It takes time.

For example City had one major player to learn the system this year, Haaland. Difference at City is the coaching staff and the whole team are there to point him in the right direction and integrated that one major part faster. I loathe City but that doesn't change the fact they are a well oiled machine with Silva, De Bryune, Foden, etc having played under Pep and with each other for a few years now. Even Grealish is looking more comfortable now. Time...

But remember, City paid out almost 500 million pound first two summer windows to set Pep up. So time and money are the factors. It will always take a bit of time. We will see how much money we put in to potentially speed that up.
 
Rob Bowman said:
Well obviously some of the players are just not up to snuff.

That said, one thing that happens in a coaching change is the new gaffer lays out his new priorities. This causes a bit of hesitation as old habits have to be discarded, and new habits learned (and let's be honest a few of our players are not really suited for this system). Throw in all the new players and they each have to learn individual habits as well as the system. But some of the players already played for ETH at Ajax. And that was Ajax, this is United, and that in and of itself still makes it different.

So new Manager, new players, old players, some players ill suited to the system, some players lacking the bottle for such big games... It takes time.

For example City had one major player to learn the system this year, Haaland. Difference at City is the coaching staff and the whole team are there to point him in the right direction and integrated that one major part faster. I loathe City but that doesn't change the fact they are a well oiled machine with Silva, De Bryune, Foden, etc having played under Pep and with each other for a few years now. Even Grealish is looking more comfortable now. Time...

But remember, City paid out almost 500 million pound first two summer windows to set Pep up. So time and money are the factors. It will always take a bit of time. We will see how much money we put in to potentially speed that up.
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Haaland played in a same kind of system at Dortmund so it wasn't that much of a difference to him too.
 
There is no quick fix, we have to give ten hag time and get in and out the correct players for him to be able to correctly mould the side to fit his philosophy.

We have seen with how things are clicking with arsenal under arteta who had to do a lot of work of moving players in and out to get them on the right track. You have to remember with pep he had all the foundations laid down for him before even joining man City because they prepared in advance where as we did not do the same with ten hag and have had a scattergun approach of managerial appointment and style of playing.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Not really, because then the players that would be coming in would largely be inferior to the players being dropped, making the team worse. The answer is in getting the whole team better prepared physically and mentally.
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Less talented players who work hard beats talented players who doesn’t.

Football is no longer a sport where one player can win games by himself all season long when they’re up against teams that press hard every game.
 
I think keep replacing the poor players from previoous managers and let TH bring in or promote from the reserves the players to suit his preferred style. Start scouting only players 15+ (younger is too early to judge) who suit the style as well. In 2 seasons we could see an 11 without any players Ole managed.
 
Ten Hag needs to start playing Casemiro regularly and we need to give him a good midfield partner. The likes of McTominay and Fred are notgoong to get us anywhere and Eriksen is more of a playmaker who should be playing behind the striker.

Bruno needs to be relegated to the bench with Eriksen taking the no 10 position.

We need a good no 9. The question is who?

The most successful clubs are ruthless and upgrade at every opportunity.
 
It takes a lot of energy to chase the ball and defend especially against city. The problem is when we finally win the ball back:
- Bruno’s Hollywood ball at first sight loses it
- Scott’s control/touch loses it
- Rashford and Sancho’s lazy passing loses it

That’s what kills us. Chasing the ball for minutes, getting a 5 second breather only to lose it cheaply and put the team under pressure for again.
 
wangyu said:
There is no solution, we’re looking for years, no coach has found it and we had several great coaches during these times. The players aren ‘t up for it but they get rewarded with big contracts so we can’t sell them. Bad management.
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Yeah sooner Erik pushes for players to actually earn their contracts then maybe we won't see so many lethargic starts to games
 
wolvored said:
I think keep replacing the poor players from previoous managers and let TH bring in or promote from the reserves the players to suit his preferred style. Start scouting only players 15+ (younger is too early to judge) who suit the style as well. In 2 seasons we could see an 11 without any players Ole managed.
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So if you had to lay out a plan on which poor players from previous managers need replacing how would you prioritise
 
mshnsh said:
Ten Hag needs to start playing Casemiro regularly and we need to give him a good midfield partner. The likes of McTominay and Fred are notgoong to get us anywhere and Eriksen is more of a playmaker who should be playing behind the striker.

Bruno needs to be relegated to the bench with Eriksen taking the no 10 position.

We need a good no 9. The question is who?

The most successful clubs are ruthless and upgrade at every opportunity.
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Who should we get to be his midfield partner?
 
Let's be realistic we are only just pulling out of the station with ETH's new ideas. There has been some success, but faced with top class opposition, we folded, the question is why?

The problem for me stemmed from the fact that two minutes in and Dalot bounced Grealish over the line in desperate fashion, and rightly got carded, he then berates Antony for not giving him some cover. Not long after similar thing happens on the left and Sancho gets berated for not helping out. Even after this early spat, neither Antony nor Sancho gave anything like the cover needed by both full backs.... the rot set in, and like a virus, spread rapidly throughout the team.

What I want to know is why ETH didn't run up and down the line rollicking Antony/Sancho. Pep, even when his teams 4-0 up is running up and down his area yelling, cajoling, but also advising his players. When players who you know are capable don't do the basics, it has to be down to the Manager and his training set up.
 
Monster Energy. Because the Red Bull philosophy failed to give us wings with Rangnick.
 
Maticmaker said:
Let's be realistic we are only just pulling out of the station with ETH's new ideas. There has been some success, but faced with top class opposition, we folded, the question is why?

The problem for me stemmed from the fact that two minutes in and Dalot bounced Grealish over the line in desperate fashion, and rightly got carded, he then berates Antony for not giving him some cover. Not long after similar thing happens on the left and Sancho gets berated for not helping out. Even after this early spat, neither Antony nor Sancho gave anything like the cover needed by both full backs.... the rot set in, and like a virus, spread rapidly throughout the team.

What I want to know is why ETH didn't run up and down the line rollicking Antony/Sancho. Pep, even when his teams 4-0 up is running up and down his area yelling, cajoling, but also advising his players. When players who you know are capable don't do the basics, it has to be down to the Manager and his training set up.
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Yes he needs to be more vocal when things aint working on the pitch. The fact he has mentioned the lack of cover since means it had irked him. He needs to threaten them with being dropped if they dont follow his instruction, whether they have just been bought or not.
 
wolvored said:
The fact he has mentioned the lack of cover since means it had irked him
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Exactly, it's no use waiting until half time (and being 4-0 down) to address the situation, presumably Antony/Sancho were following previous instructions and staying up the field ready to raid down the wings, which incidentally they didn't do; in fairness to Antony it was probably because City 'doubled up' on him up to half time but for Sancho, well I'm not really sure what he was about on Sunday... in anything he did?

The point is the lack of cover out wide was creating massive problems and needed adjusting urgently. The first 5 minutes clearly showed that, as both fullbacks were being overrun, increasingly Varane and Martinez were being distracted down the middle and Eriksen and McT were being pulled all over the place. City smelled blood in the water and Haaland and Foden sharpened their knives!

Why when after the game Erik made reference to this, and as you said it clearly irked him, did he not do something about it at the time? Perhaps he was thinking it would only be as useful as 'rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic'?
 
flameinthesun said:
Combination of replacing players and more time on the training ground. The reality of it is that we are very early in our journey. We still have players not suited to this style (especially midfield) and ten hag has been here less than 10 games. Its not going to change over night. For every couple of steps we take forward there will be times we take a step back.
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I think the OP is right to focus on this as a longer-term problem - it's not like none of EtHs predecessors were concerned with intensity and work ethic.
 
Maticmaker said:
Exactly, it's no use waiting until half time (and being 4-0 down) to address the situation, presumably Antony/Sancho were following previous instructions and staying up the field ready to raid down the wings, which incidentally they didn't do; in fairness to Antony it was probably because City 'doubled up' on him up to half time but for Sancho, well I'm not really sure what he was about on Sunday... in anything he did?

The point is the lack of cover out wide was creating massive problems and needed adjusting urgently. The first 5 minutes clearly showed that, as both fullbacks were being overrun, increasingly Varane and Martinez were being distracted down the middle and Eriksen and McT were being pulled all over the place. City smelled blood in the water and Haaland and Foden sharpened their knives!

Why when after the game Erik made reference to this, and as you said it clearly irked him, did he not do something about it at the time? Perhaps he was thinking it would only be as useful as 'rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic'?
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Well whatever happens lets hope he and the team have learned the lessons as he says
 
It's down to the coaches and the players giving it all in training as well as in games.
 
It will take time and ETH needs time. Against Liverpool and Arsenal the team showed they can play with intensity. As someone wrote here, early yellow and goal unsettled us but didnt have to unsettle us that we completely collapsed after that.
 
Some players naturally have it others don't. Fred, Bruno Rashford (when he wants) Antony can run 90 minutes. We need more players especially in the middle of the park who are natural athletes and can still keep the ball. It's a recruitment problem that will take ETH time to correct
 
wolvored said:
I think keep replacing the poor players from previoous managers and let TH bring in or promote from the reserves the players to suit his preferred style. Start scouting only players 15+ (younger is too early to judge) who suit the style as well. In 2 seasons we could see an 11 without any players Ole managed.
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I guarantee you, in 2 years, you will see plenty of Ole players in the team.
We are not progressing up the table, we are regressing down it.
 
Shuv at rocket up there asses! That will give them more energy and intensity.
 
sunama said:
I guarantee you, in 2 years, you will see plenty of Ole players in the team.
We are not progressing up the table, we are regressing down it.
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So may as well write off next few years for you
 
Lack of energy, intensity and concentration are all part of the same problem.
And that is Conditioning.
The trainers and nutritionists and coaches and of course the players themselves work ethic has to improve the capacity of the team to perform.
Because what is being done now is far from good enough.
These should be elite athletes being provided with the very best in sports science.
But far too often, they don't look at all like that.
 
The only way to match the intensity and energy of City or Liverpool (when not cycling off) is to accept that PEDs are a big factor, and start following suit. Not that I would advocate this, but that's how we would compete on that front. Otherwise, we can improve what we see from our team massively by getting rid of a lot of players who spend most of their time jogging aimlessly around and expecting the game to just somehow happen around them.
 
Buster15 said:
Lack of energy, intensity and concentration are all part of the same problem.
And that is Conditioning.
The trainers and nutritionists and coaches and of course the players themselves work ethic has to improve the capacity of the team to perform.
Because what is being done now is far from good enough.
These should be elite athletes being provided with the very best in sports science.
But far too often, they don't look at all like that.
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Spot on!
You see lots of examples of our players losing concentration, of being seemingly 'back on their heels' when opposition players have already started to move. I know it's a bit unfair to compare with Haaland, but if you watch the video coverage, from the derby game, he is half a yard quicker in his movements, however, this was all around the pitch. Also, what is the top speed of some of our players? Rashford at his best can motor, but there are few others. Antony appears to be able to 'duck and dive' at speed, but in a flat out race he is not that fast out of the blocks!
Yes of course nutrition etc. helps, but Conditioning comes from the head/heart and we sadly lack these at times. Sometimes you would swear that someone, off the pitch, has 'thrown a switch' and United players collective get the jitters!
 
FreakyJim said:
The lack of movement off the ball, lack of pressing was disgusting, in a derby no less. Yet again.

I thought Ten Hag was supposed to address this. 2 months in and we're as lazy and shite as we've been under Ole and Mourinho.
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This is my major concern. Obviously EtH has to get his own players in and it will take time, but it seems that rather than the current players adapting and responding to the methods ten Hag wants to implement, he is having to adapt to the shit counter attacking style of play that our players feel comfortable with. Can't keep allowing the tail to wag the dog.
 
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