How can we sort out the problem of lack of energy, intensity, concentration?

JeffFromHK

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The thrashing by City tonight is basically the same as the 1-6 defeat against Tottenham or the 0-5 defeat against Liverpool last year, our players lack intensity, energy, concentration. They are 2 seconds too slow in reacting to everything, gets outruned, loss the 50-50s, lack concentration and make sloppy touches, etc.

It seems to have been a recurring story in the past couple years. We have replaced so many players but the story seems to be the same.

What is the cause of that? (Some players, by nature, lack intensity?) How can we solve that problem?
 
Combination of replacing players and more time on the training ground. The reality of it is that we are very early in our journey. We still have players not suited to this style (especially midfield) and ten hag has been here less than 10 games. Its not going to change over night. For every couple of steps we take forward there will be times we take a step back.
 
JeffFromHK said:
The thrashing by City tonight is basically the same as the 1-6 defeat against Tottenham or the 0-5 defeat against Liverpool last year, our players lack intensity, energy, concentration. They are 2 seconds too slow in reacting to everything, gets outruned, loss the 50-50s, lack concentration and make sloppy touches, etc.

It seems to have been a recurring story in the past couple years. We have replaced so many players but the story seems to be the same.

What is the cause of that? (Some players, by nature, lack intensity?) How can we solve that problem?
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Dalot, McTominay, Bruno, Rashford and Sancho all took part in these games, that’s almost half a team. Completely agree with your post btw in terms of this constant lack of application. I don’t feel there’s ever any ramifications for these performances and that’s the problem. Those five players will all start again either on Thursday or Sunday.
 
Stop buying or keeping low intensity players.

Last year Utd were trying to play a front 3 of Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho and there wasn't enough pressing intensity out of them to fill a thimble. Antony is an improvement there but it tells you everything when lazy bastard Martial is an improvement on the others. Our midfield gets exposed terribly with the lack of front workrate.
 
flameinthesun said:
Combination of replacing players and more time on the training ground. The reality of it is that we are very early in our journey. We still have players not suited to this style (especially midfield) and ten hag has been here less than 10 games. Its not going to change over night. For every couple of steps we take forward there will be times we take a step back.
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What the OP is talking about and style have little in common IMHO. I mean if a player wants to run himself into the ground, he can do so without needing special instructions
 
Lets not combine eras. This is the start of a new team being built. ETH will not accept this type of shit.

Also our last game was a while ago. The time off clearly didn't help. We looked very off the pace to begin the game.
 
It’s all about belief. We know they can play with intensity as we’ve seen it recently. The players didn’t believe they could compete today. They played as individuals. Nobody supported each other. Game was over before it began.
 
Bobski said:
Stop buying or keeping low intensity players.

Last year Utd were trying to play a front 3 of Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho and there wasn't enough pressing intensity out of them to fill a thimble. Antony is an improvement there but it tells you everything when lazy bastard Martial is an improvement on the others. Our midfield gets exposed terribly with the lack of front workrate.
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I do agree that the 3 players you name Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho are all low intensity players.

Rashford was so great at pressing when he broke into the 1st team (remember those goals he scored when he dashed to goalkeepers and goalkeepers miskicked the ball into his body which bounced into the goal). It is a shame that he now plays like a 37 years old striker who no longer presses or fight any more. He is now just a luxury player who only cares about last last tap in or the assist-making passes to make into youtube highlights

Sancho losses all 50 50 battles and is so lazy making runs or presses.

McTominay is also another low intensity player. Though he is physically tough and can win body battles, he just refuses to make full-speed sprints both when attacking or defending. He never makes those recovery tackles like Fred or Casemiro can do (not saying those 2 players don't have flaws)

Lindelof is a soft and low intensity defender

Not to forget De Gea is also a timid goalkeeper who is afraid of going out of his own box.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Lets not combine eras. This is the start of a new team being built. ETH will not accept this type of shit.

Also our last game was a while ago. The time off clearly didn't help. We looked very off the pace to begin the game.
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To me it's a continuing problem though. I personally wouldn't count the 6-1 against Spurs, it's two years ago and we didn't get hammered again that season until Liverpool beat us 4-2 at the end of the season. I think we've eight results where we've shipped 4 or more goals since the start of last season though. It's a big issue with this team and its mentality.
 
Players should be dropped if they don’t perform. Simple. Fear of their places should drive them and if it doesn’t they should be sold
 
culture and attitude change, start with shipping Oles faves Rashford Bruno and Scott
 
I was only able to listen to the audio but the commentary consistently observed our apathy on the pitch. My armchair analysis is that we had no belief going into the game.

Best if we chalk this up as a one-off. Beatable opponents are coming up. City was not beatable today even if ETH punched all the right buttons.
 
lex talionis said:
I was only able to listen to the audio but the commentary consistently observed our apathy on the pitch. My armchair analysis is that we had no belief going into the game.

Best if we chalk this up as a one-off. Beatable opponents are coming up. City was not beatable today even if ETH punched all the right buttons.
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That was what I felt watching the game live on TV as well. The desire gulf between Man Utd and City players were day and light. Haaland kept making those Usain Bolt-like off the ball runs like he was running for his own life. I wondered why Rashford, etc, with all the speed he had, never made those off the ball runs? he lacked motivation?

there was an occasion when our defender passed the ball out from the back, sancho seemed to be on the receiving end of it but he just slowly jogged towards the ball. then a City Player dashed in from behind and stole the ball away. I wondered why Sancho didn't make that extra-1 yard run?
 
Tell them the game or season is over and there's nothing to play for. Our lads don't like the pressure of expectation
 
City is a hard place to do it, but being able to dominate the ball and be better in possession will take us a long way.

Same goes for being more organised in the press too. I don't think you need a team full of physical specimens but the right structure in and out of possession will take us in that direction.

ETH has already shown he is happy to change the team based on merit, which helps but I think the key to our success will be once ETH is able to apply his principles into the group.

I don't think today was about a lack of effort. Some naivety on ETH's side and mainly us not quite being in a position to play the way ETH wants (it will take time) and City being a top class settled side.
 
kouroux said:
What the OP is talking about and style have little in common IMHO. I mean if a player wants to run himself into the ground, he can do so without needing special instructions
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But its just not about running yourself into the ground, as we see with Bruno there has to be a shape, triggers etc behind or else we would be carved open anyway. Better pressing teams than us with more intensity e.g. leeds have been carved open. But that understanding of how to press takes time.

The other side is we can say that players should run themselves into the ground but the reality is a lot of players don't have the engine or don't want to (not just talking about united but generally in football). Its why only certain players can play in a high pressing system, not every player has the attributes to do so.

I do believe we've started on our journey to getting in more players who have the energy and mentality (malacia, martinez, antony) but the reality is the majority of this squad are not high energy players. Even eriksen, as great as he has been hes not a high energy player.

So this season is going to be painful but hopefully ten hag embeds his tactics more and we manage to bring in some more players who are suited to a high energy style of playing.
 
Mickeza said:
It’s all about belief. We know they can play with intensity as we’ve seen it recently. The players didn’t believe they could compete today. They played as individuals. Nobody supported each other. Game was over before it began.
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Yep. Don't think they weren't trying, they just got rattled and didn't believe they could win. Poor attacking play was largely down to bad decisions after their heads had gone IMO, not lack of workrate.

I also have to say, I do think Ten Hag needs to take his share of the blame for that one. After 5 minutes I was thinking we needed to make a change. Casemiro on to try to get on top of their midfield or Wan Bissaka on to contain Grealish for example. I can certainly understand the reluctance to change so early but you can't wait until you're 4 goals down to do it. At worst it should have happened after their 3rd IMO but I think Mourinho would have done it within 10-15 mins.
 
flameinthesun said:
But its just not about running yourself into the ground, as we see with Bruno there has to be a shape, triggers etc behind or else we would be carved open anyway. Better pressing teams than us with more intensity e.g. leeds have been carved open. But that understanding of how to press takes time.

The other side is we can say that players should run themselves into the ground but the reality is a lot of players don't have the engine or don't want to (not just talking about united but generally in football). Its why only certain players can play in a high pressing system, not every player has the attributes to do so.

I do believe we've started on our journey to getting in more players who have the energy and mentality (malacia, martinez, antony) but the reality is the majority of this squad are not high energy players. Even eriksen, as great as he has been hes not a high energy player.

So this season is going to be painful but hopefully ten hag embeds his tactics more and we manage to bring in some more players who are suited to a high energy style of playing.
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Tbh, this is an excellent post
 
Mickeza said:
It’s all about belief. We know they can play with intensity as we’ve seen it recently. The players didn’t believe they could compete today. They played as individuals. Nobody supported each other. Game was over before it began.
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Agree with all of this. Bit of a weird thread if I'm honest. Give Ten Hag a bit of time.
 
TwoSheds said:
Yep. Don't think they weren't trying, they just got rattled and didn't believe they could win. Poor attacking play was largely down to bad decisions after their heads had gone IMO, not lack of workrate.

I also have to say, I do think Ten Hag needs to take his share of the blame for that one. After 5 minutes I was thinking we needed to make a change. Casemiro on to try to get on top of their midfield or Wan Bissaka on to contain Grealish for example. I can certainly understand the reluctance to change so early but you can't wait until you're 4 goals down to do it. At worst it should have happened after their 3rd IMO but I think Mourinho would have done it within 10-15 mins.
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I honestly don’t think any individual change would have made a difference - this was a collective mentality issue. Reminded me of all those times in our pomp teams rocked up to old Trafford beaten before a ball was even kicked. Or Arsenal against City the last few years. I’m with you - this wasn’t a lack of will ala Brentford - it was a lack of confidence causing desperation, passivity and poor decision making. That can only be addressed by winning games, increasing confidence and changing the mentality.
 
Mickeza said:
I honestly don’t think any individual change would have made a difference - this was a collective mentality issue. Reminded me of all those times in our pomp teams rocked up to old Trafford beaten before a ball was even kicked. Or Arsenal against City the last few years. I’m with you - this wasn’t a lack of will ala Brentford - it was a lack of confidence causing desperation, passivity and poor decision making. That can only be addressed by winning games, increasing confidence and changing the mentality.
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But you can't deny that some of our players, like Ronaldo (at his age), Rashford, Sancho, are by their nature of low intensity. Remember that cameo when Haaland ran to the goalline just to avoid a goalkick? this scene never happens to players like Rashford or Sancho, but used to happen a lot when we had Tevez or Rooney. also recall that Ederson had a miskick in his own box, the ball was in the air of City's box for 2 seconds, and Rashford just stood there and let Ake/Akanji clear the ball without pressure? Some players are by their nature love to fight for every goalkick cornerkick or throw in, some don't bother to do that. Just like back in the days in the school some students were self motivated in studying hard, some students just never bother to try even though he might smart.
 
Mickeza said:
I honestly don’t think any individual change would have made a difference - this was a collective mentality issue. Reminded me of all those times in our pomp teams rocked up to old Trafford beaten before a ball was even kicked. Or Arsenal against City the last few years. I’m with you - this wasn’t a lack of will ala Brentford - it was a lack of confidence causing desperation, passivity and poor decision making. That can only be addressed by winning games, increasing confidence and changing the mentality.
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Yes, but bringing a leader and ball winner on in Casemiro or replacing our most rattled player couldn't have hurt. I don't think we'd have lost 6-1 if he'd have tried to regain the impetus earlier on.
 
Bobski said:
Stop buying or keeping low intensity players.

Last year Utd were trying to play a front 3 of Rashford, Ronaldo and Sancho and there wasn't enough pressing intensity out of them to fill a thimble. Antony is an improvement there but it tells you everything when lazy bastard Martial is an improvement on the others. Our midfield gets exposed terribly with the lack of front workrate.
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Apart from his albeit wonderful goal, he didn't do a lot today and in fact in the match day thread many people were wondering if United haven't made another transfer error.
 
Give the coach time.

For the first time in a long time we finally have a manager who knows what he's doing.

When they finish the season and get to know each others, it will become second nature.

It's just like geology - it takes pressure and time.
 
I had high hopes for Sancho but it seems he'll be another huge disappointment. Such a talented player with such poor workrate. We seem to sign these types of players more often than not, give them enormous contracts and watch them stroll about the pitch.

The lack of movement off the ball, lack of pressing was disgusting, in a derby no less. Yet again.

I thought Ten Hag was supposed to address this. 2 months in and we're as lazy and shite as we've been under Ole and Mourinho.
 
Mickeza said:
It’s all about belief. We know they can play with intensity as we’ve seen it recently. The players didn’t believe they could compete today. They played as individuals. Nobody supported each other. Game was over before it began.
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All three points true and valid.
 
Irwin99 said:
To me it's a continuing problem though. I personally wouldn't count the 6-1 against Spurs, it's two years ago and we didn't get hammered again that season until Liverpool beat us 4-2 at the end of the season. I think we've eight results where we've shipped 4 or more goals since the start of last season though. It's a big issue with this team and its mentality.
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The ones under ETH are part of a process to shift us to a team confortable passing and keeping the ball through pressure. We still have players like Bruno and Mctom who treat it like a hot potato so these results where we get overrun will be more common i think. Hopefully we start clicking and hammering some teams soon as well.
 
The timing for this match was horrible from our perspective. We cant miss out 2 games and then land on City.

oh well we have now played all the top top teams time to go on a nice run.
 
Not having 2 matches postponed on us right before an international break. That's just not an ideal thing for the squad at this point. A year down the line maybe we might be able to not play a match in 2.5 weeks and be able to just pick it right up where we left off.
 
This problem seems to go much deeper than the playing squad. It’s been a huge problem for years and years now regardless of the manager.
 
Tigersam said:
Apart from his albeit wonderful goal, he didn't do a lot today and in fact in the match day thread many people were wondering if United haven't made another transfer error.
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Was speaking about pressing and workrate. Time will tell if his quality translates but he appears to be a harder worker than the others, though the numbers may tell a different story for all I know.
 
Truely a depressing time to be a Manchester United fan.

We've been well and truely overtaken by a host of other teams.

I wonder how long we will linger in mediocrity, unless we change owners or continue to try and spend our way out of trouble.
 
Something will come out in the future that our diet, sports science, ped usage etc is awful compared to other teams.
 
I didn't think it was that much like the hamerrings we took last season. I mean it was still awful but in a different way.

Last season we'd literally either give up or not look like we were even trying in the first place. Same against Brentford this season.

Didn't think there was any lack of effort, energy etc. today, but there was a complete lack of composure, backbone or game intelligence.

Winning the ball back well for a break away and then panicking and losing it almost immediately nearly every single time. Players like Dalot and Mctominay constantly being drawn out of position chasing nothing. Players being indecisive about whether to commit to a challenge or go with their man, make a run or not etc. It looked like we were intimidated by just being on the pitch with city.

A team like City when they have Haaland will punish every error and every moment you leave yourselves open. Dalot did something dumb and panicky after literally about 30 seconds and that just set the tone. I think just about every player ended up being guilty of it aside from maybe Varane and Antony, the later of who simply wasn't in the game until the second half.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Something will come out in the future that our diet, sports science, ped usage etc is awful compared to other teams.
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I mean it has already really with Ten Hag having to ban players using their own chefs, etc. I think we've already shown progress in that regard juat by the fact the less fit or energetic players aren't getting picked, but it's not the sort of change that can happen quickly. It took pep over a year at city and he's a world class manager who inherited a team already good enough to win the league.

Ten Hag has inherited a team that was lucky not to finish about 13th last season and had multiple players in it who were visibly less fit than nearly every opponent. He's got a long job on his hands and I'm willing to take today if its part of an overall progress...but whether it is or not is far too early to say.

I was half expecting us to get hammered juat because this game has cone too early into the season for us considering all the changes, but I would have expected us to at least not have taken until the second half to show any composure on the ball, and to have at least made them work a bit for their chances rather thqn juar stroll up the pitch and roll the ball into our box over and over. It was pretty fecking awful.
 
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JeffFromHK said:
The thrashing by City tonight is basically the same as the 1-6 defeat against Tottenham or the 0-5 defeat against Liverpool last year, our players lack intensity, energy, concentration. They are 2 seconds too slow in reacting to everything, gets outruned, loss the 50-50s, lack concentration and make sloppy touches, etc.

It seems to have been a recurring story in the past couple years. We have replaced so many players but the story seems to be the same.

What is the cause of that? (Some players, by nature, lack intensity?) How can we solve that problem?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it was the break but I thought we had solved that. I think the early yellow card and the early goal got to our players
 
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