How bad is it, really? (Financial thread)

Nogho

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The numbers presented in the latest article from the Athletic the future seems really dire.

Since we are a public company, does anyone here have a clear picture of the situation and have the capability to provide an easy explanation of it?

For me it seems like we are in serious point deduction zone and even worse punishments. And buying players seems like an impossibility and selling players like Marinoo and/or Garnacho may be a must.
 
It may require a mad dash in June to get rid of the likes of Rashford. Hopefully, both him and Casemiro leave in January which would certainly help our PSR.
 
Nogho said:
The numbers presented in the latest article from the Athletic the future seems really dire.

Since we are a public company, does anyone here have a clear picture of the situation and have the capability to provide an easy explanation of it?

For me it seems like we are in serious point deduction zone and even worse punishments. And buying players seems like an impossibility and selling players like Marinoo and/or Garnacho may be a must.
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The Athletic runs on 'United In Crisis' articles.
 
i’ve been looking at other clubs to move my support to.
 
Thank the Glazers.

This is why United under INEOS will continue to make very unpopular decisions, because the situation needs addressing.
 
It's probably fecking bad. We've had, a billion, in debt for as long as I can remember combined with the billion or so spent on absolute wank over the last decade.

Chickens coming home to roost and all that.
 
Seriously, you don't read the reports? Or you don't believe them? There are hundreds on the net, with numbers. Record loss last year, and so on. Yes, we are in really serious financial trouble, thanks to years of reckless spending, bad results, lack of CL football... Yes we're unable to buy players due to the lack of funds, and yes we wouldn't be able to register them due to FFP regulations anyway and yes, we already breached PSR regulations which can result in point deduction as it happened with Everton. Did you know, that according to PSR no PL club can have more than 105 million pounds loss in 3 years, and we have about 300? NO WAY anyone can fix that. This is why i don't understand some fans here. They are discussing high profile players like we had the smallest chance to sign them. Not to mention the poor condition of the stadium, which would cost tons of money to fix. We're in far deeper trouble than the majority of fans think. Just take off your pink glasses, guys.
 
Marcelinho87 said:
Thank the Glazers.

This is why United under INEOS will continue to make very unpopular decisions, because the situation needs addressing.
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And it gives them a perfect excuse to put up prices and cut costs. Which is right up their alley.
 
Sir Jim has cold feet and no longer wants to buy the club in its entirety. That should tell you everything you need to know.
 
Pexbo said:
Sir Jim has cold feet and no longer wants to buy the club in its entirety. That should tell you everything you need to know.
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Has that actually been reported?
 
If you start conversation based on some article it would be nice to link the article itself in the message.
 
JJ12 said:
No it doesn't.
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It does, chief.

Nothing sells hot copy more than the so-called 'big clubs' embroiled in a supposed scandal.

I'm surprised they haven't got all out on a 'Twenty Years On' crapathon about how Rock Of Gibraltar is the reason the Glazers bought the club. Written by some vengeful 'journalist'.

It's the type of gibberish their subscribers lap up wholesale.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
link to article pls?
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The Firestarter said:
At least provide a link or a headline so people know what the feck are you talking about.
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Link

Sorry, since it’s behind a paywall I was unsure if it was allowed to post it.
But the main part was that we have spent more then 300£ million the last three years and the allowed is around 100.

Sorry about the confusion and language barrier, but we have spent 200£ million more the we are allowed. And even 100£ million is above what we have in income.
 
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JJ12 said:
Has that actually been reported?
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Yes. Andy Mitten asked him and he said that right now he has no plans for it.

The significance is in the deal he made with the Glazers, if he doesn’t follow through on the offer then someone else is free to enter negotiations with the Glazers and he then has first refusal.
 
I think this article by Marcotti also highlights what a lot of people are missing about the PL. The boom days are over, and it's time to prepare for a new normal.

So, to what extent is the new TV deal not a "record," in meaningful terms? Well, very much.

For starters, it's a four-year deal, not the usual three years, so on a seasonal basis it works out to £1.675bn a year, less than the £1.713bn a year in the 2015 agreement that covered the 2016-2019 seasons. Factor in inflation, with the cost of living some 30% higher today than in 2015, and this deal is about one third less valuable than that one, which was the highest ever. (The 2019-22 deal, which was rolled into 2022-2025 and meant the same rights holders held onto their packages, already represented a decline prior to last month's announcement.)

Oh, and then there's the fact that this deal covers 99 games more than the 2016-19 agreement. Consider inflation and, on a per-game basis, the value of each individual game has gone down 50%.
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https://www.espn.co.uk/football/sto...premier-league-new-tv-deal-warning-not-record
 
If we sell a few mid players for decent money, it will be alright.

The problem is we always seem reluctant to sell. We come up with whatever excuse to delay selling permanently as long as possible.
 
Crostien said:
It does, chief.

Nothing sells hot copy more than the so-called 'big clubs' embroiled in a supposed scandal.

I'm surprised they haven't got all out on a 'Twenty Years On' crapathon about how Rock Of Gibraltar is the reason the Glazers bought the club. Written by some vengeful 'journalist'.

It's the type of gibberish their subscribers lap up wholesale.
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As per you are talking utter tripe
 
spiriticon said:
If we sell a few mid players for decent money, it will be alright.

The problem is we always seem reluctant to sell. We come up with whatever excuse to delay selling permanently as long as possible.
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Okey, but the 200£ million in excess of the psr, I don’t understand how this adds up. A couple of ”mid players” could not possibly give that kind of money.
 
spiriticon said:
If we sell a few mid players for decent money, it will be alright.

The problem is we always seem reluctant to sell. We come up with whatever excuse to delay selling permanently as long as possible.
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That’s where we’ve been really poor for a very long time. Liverpool are currently asking for 30 million for Ben Doak. There isn’t anyone in our youth or senior team who’s commanding those sort of numbers. Wherever the players ability is marginally attractive to another club, the wages we pay make it a hindrance to sell. I hope the new team can improve this aspect of our business otherwise we’ll fall foul of the PSR.
 
Nogho said:
Okey, but the 200£ million in excess of the psr, I don’t understand how this adds up. A couple of ”mid players” could not possibly give that kind of money.
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A lot of it would be infrastructure spend which would get removed from this figure. If we are going to be 200 million short, we wouldn’t have been buying so many players this summer.
 
Nogho said:
Okey, but the 200£ million in excess of the psr, I don’t understand how this adds up. A couple of ”mid players” could not possibly give that kind of money.
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It's transfer fees + wages too. Even if the club only sells Rashford for £20 million, the savings made by not paying him 250k a week for the next 4 years will add up to around 50 million. Same goes for Antony, Casemiro, Mount etc etc etc
 
Nickelodeon said:
That’s where we’ve been really poor for a very long time. Liverpool are currently asking for 30 million for Ben Doak. There isn’t anyone in our youth or senior team who’s commanding those sort of numbers. Wherever the players ability is marginally attractive to another club, the wages we pay make it a hindrance to sell. I hope the new team can improve this aspect of our business otherwise we’ll fall foul of the PSR.
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Yes and that's why we cannot give the likes of Amad, Mainoo or Garnacho a crazy wage even if they are doing well. It's not guaranteed they are going to get better in the next 4 years.
 
Nickelodeon said:
A lot of it would be infrastructure spend which would get removed from this figure. If we are going to be 200 million short, we wouldn’t have been buying so many players this summer.
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spiriticon said:
It's transfer fees + wages too. Even if the club only sells Rashford for £20 million, the savings made by not paying him 250k a week for the next 4 years will add up to around 50 million. Same goes for Antony, Casemiro, Mount etc etc etc
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I see, so it’s ”complicated ” and it’s spread over seasons. For me it’s so strange that the club have red numbers every year. Seems like a strange business model.
 
If Chelsea can spend a billion without breaching P&S then there's no way our poxy £150m summer transfer spend is getting us in trouble.

I suspect winning the Europa to get CL money is very important though. You'd imagine any budgeting was done with that prize money in mind.
 
Nogho said:
I see, so it’s ”complicated ” and it’s spread over seasons. For me it’s so strange that the club have red numbers every year. Seems like a strange business model.
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Yes, that why Chelsea sign players on 8 year contracts. They do it so they don't get PSR trouble because the fees and wages are spread out over time.

The downside is that if a player is shit and has a 8-year contract on a good wage, you will almost never be able to get rid of him.
 
JJ12 said:
As per you are talking utter tripe
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Thanks for the detailed break-down.

You go back to your doom and gloom articles.

Stop attacking people who dare to disagree with your borrowed take.

golden_blunder said:
Have you tried Villa? They offer a good package including free 50 inch tv if you switch. For best deals check out
Www.premiersupportswitching.con
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Up The Villa is UTV.

Julian Simmonds, Paul Clarke, Mike Nesbitt, Gerry Kelly....your boys take a hell of a beating...
 
Crostien said:
Thanks for the detailed break-down.

You go back to your doom and gloom articles.

Stop attacking people who dare to disagree with your borrowed take.



Up The Villa is UTV.

Julian Simmonds, Paul Clarke, Mike Nesbitt, Gerry Kelly....your boys take a hell of a beating...
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Spoken like a true UTV veteran
 
I strongly suspect a lot of our PSR woes are being briefed out by INEOS to break the idea that we have an infinite budget and can get exploited in every deal.
 
Lu Tze said:
I strongly suspect a lot of our PSR woes are being briefed out by INEOS to break the idea that we have an infinite budget and can get exploited in every deal.
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I actually suspect that too but I'm all for it. We need to undo the damage caused by Ed's idiotic "We can do things other teams only dream of" statement. Which astute businessman says something like that? Clown.
 
spiriticon said:
I actually suspect that too but I'm all for it. We need to undo the damage caused by Ed's idiotic "We can do things other teams only dream of" statement. Which astute businessman says something like that? Clown.
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United fans all lapped it up at the time talking about how much may be in the ‘war chest’
 
spiriticon said:
Yes and that's why we cannot give the likes of Amad, Mainoo or Garnacho a crazy wage even if they are doing well. It's not guaranteed they are going to get better in the next 4 years.
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We should really learn from Liverpool who are making their all time greats sweat for their contracts. Just see what message it sends to the likes of Harvey Elliott or Curtis Jones. Unless the player has a Cole Palmer type season at least two seasons in a row, we should not breach the 150 or 200k wages.
 
Pexbo said:
Yes. Andy Mitten asked him and he said that right now he has no plans for it.

The significance is in the deal he made with the Glazers, if he doesn’t follow through on the offer then someone else is free to enter negotiations with the Glazers and he then has first refusal.
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Given there were only two public bids for United the first time around, I’m certain Ratcliffe is comfortable letting the glazers negotiate with others knowing the financial state of the club is unlikely to draw a lot of interest. Even the Qatari bid the first time wasn’t prepared to go over the top and I doubt they seek to overpay and meet the unreasonable glazer demands the second time around. This should give ratcliffe the leverage he’s probably seeking to negotiate a better deal for the balance of the glazers controlling interest.
 
Crostien said:
The Athletic runs on 'United In Crisis' articles.
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Crostien said:
It does, chief.

Nothing sells hot copy more than the so-called 'big clubs' embroiled in a supposed scandal.

I'm surprised they haven't got all out on a 'Twenty Years On' crapathon about how Rock Of Gibraltar is the reason the Glazers bought the club. Written by some vengeful 'journalist'.

It's the type of gibberish their subscribers lap up wholesale.
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What on earth are you talking about.

You realise how big the Athletic is? They don't need to run articles to "sell hot copies" nor do they "run on 'United In Crisis' articles" :lol: :lol: brilliant
 
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