Probably be better to evaluate after the transfer window but right now, for me, 7/10. It’s bad. Mid table beckons as things stand. A few decent signings would change that though.
How bad do we really think it is?
- Thread starter UnitedFire
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Agree about Cavanis second season but remember he didn't want to stay. OGS had to persuade him to stay a second season and then what do we do?
We sign Ronaldo and Cavani is probably thinking WTF?
In his first season with us Cavanis work rate was better than Rashford, Martial and Greenwood
How many players do we have in our current squad, who at some point in their career has been world class, in the sense that they would be considered in the starting line at most top clubs in Europe, and whom we must assume under the right circumstances could get back at that level.
I would say: DDG, Varane, Sancho, Martial, Rashford, Bruno and Ronaldo. Possibly Maguire and Shaw.
It is slim and far away from City, Liverpool and to a lesser extent Chelsea, but in line with Spurs and Arsenal. Our squad depth is however highly questionable unless some of the youngsters hits the ground running, and there is no way we can compete for anything with McFred as our first option throughout the season.
I would say: DDG, Varane, Sancho, Martial, Rashford, Bruno and Ronaldo. Possibly Maguire and Shaw.
It is slim and far away from City, Liverpool and to a lesser extent Chelsea, but in line with Spurs and Arsenal. Our squad depth is however highly questionable unless some of the youngsters hits the ground running, and there is no way we can compete for anything with McFred as our first option throughout the season.
Conte isn't someone you bring in to improve the structure of the club. He'd bring short-term success but he'd have probably fallen out with our impotent board.
Very bad imo, probably the first season I'm not looking forward to the start.
Just a couple of years ago I was staying up into the early hours to watch preseason, now I'm thinking 'preseason, when, where, against who?'
The only possible positive I can see is that teams undestimate the side and they play better as the underdogs?
Team needs upgrades all over but will also be heavily reliant on those upgrades fitting straight in and being relied upon which is quite unlikely imo.
The other issue is with all the drama, negativity and constant embarrassment. Utd very much are the new Arsenal, that + no champions league just makes joining rather unattractive if you have other offers elsewhere unless the salary is considerably larger which is just unsustainable.
I'm not sure I can cope with another season of McFred..
Just a couple of years ago I was staying up into the early hours to watch preseason, now I'm thinking 'preseason, when, where, against who?'
The only possible positive I can see is that teams undestimate the side and they play better as the underdogs?
Team needs upgrades all over but will also be heavily reliant on those upgrades fitting straight in and being relied upon which is quite unlikely imo.
The other issue is with all the drama, negativity and constant embarrassment. Utd very much are the new Arsenal, that + no champions league just makes joining rather unattractive if you have other offers elsewhere unless the salary is considerably larger which is just unsustainable.
I'm not sure I can cope with another season of McFred..
What about the pessimism! For fecks sake at its core it’s 11 men chasing a plastic ball about. With global warming, war in the Ukraine, cost of living covid etc. try and enjoy it whilst we are still clinging on to a ball of dust spinning around a giant ball of fire. Personally I’d take a bit of pride in the badge and some effort as a positive for next season!
Yes but in recent memory we signed one of the best midfielders I’ve seen in BFS and he was old and average. Cavani was great but nowhere near what he was when he joined us and we’d have been better getting a young striker who’d still be useful now, wouldn’t have been always injured and not cost silly wages.
I honestly think Pogba will go down as one of the most overrated players of this generation when the dust settles. People always reference him for being a creator and someone who can make something out of nothing but Bruno can do that too and they both have so many brain farts I’m genuinely not sure it’s a net positive or negative. If Pogba makes one worldy pass and we score but then 5 get intercepted and we’re countered, he gets pressed and disposed a few times near the goal and generally isn’t putting in a shift defensively, is he more of a detriment. Plus he’s had serious fitness issues since his second or third season with us. He’s the perfect example of an ‘on his day’ player.
Those on here who watched Garner regularly coming through say good things, I think he can definitely be as good as Matic now although peak Matic was phenomenal.
Maybe ETH wants to see the players in training first and then decides who should leave. The problem with this is that Rangnick always said Rashford trained well and it never showed in games.
Well even before Hag came onboard, United fans in general knew the upcoming season was always likely going to be a challenging and transitional one.
What's happened ? Seems like everything's on course to be just that.
What's happened ? Seems like everything's on course to be just that.
First part isn’t unpopular and is a fact as far as i’m concerned - unqualified and hands off, it still sickens me we basically threw in the towel for three years. However Conte isn’t someone to build a project with, he’s volatile and plays snore football albeit it’s effective and he’s extremely tactically good.
6. This is also probably the highest position we can hope for looking at how the other top 6 are strengthening. Squad wise where do we rank? If Ronaldo goes, it's slim pickings in the market for strikers, unless we spend a fair amount... which we probably wont have if we are spending about 70 million on FDJ and Malacia. I want Ronaldo to go but not sure who can replace him or who we can build with for the future. We lack depth now that a bunch of players have gone. Not sure the kids will be physically able to compete. It's pretty bad.
We need to do some shrewd business.
We need to do some shrewd business.
If we don't give Ten Hag a full three years, results be damned, to turn things around and build the club in his style, then our new position for a decade will be 6th-10th. That's how bad it is. He needs to be backed in the transfer market, in his demands for the structuring of the club, and in trust and time to be told that he is bigger than the players he manages. Some very competent managers have come through United now, it's getting to the point where any manager worth their salt will look at United and blame the club, not the managerial personnel, for what is happening there, and they won't bother with the job.
With you apocalyptic musings it only further highlights the desire for success. If all you care about is a badge and turning up your may as well support...Cardiff City!
If FDJ signs for Man Utd, it would be because he has chosen to sign.
Not a good as some fans think it is, we are been bought and sold again. Famous words like the team is good enough because we came second two seasons ago should tell us where we are going this season and why there is not much movement of players moving on.
Worst United side in a generation which requires major surgery. Longer term we need 6 - 8 players, in my opinion.
Other teams are doing good business and personally, I think City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and probably Arsenal should all finish above us - barring major developments in terms of players coming in.
You have to back the manager and I think he was the right appointment, but the problems sit well above him. Remains to be seen I suppose but I'm expecting another painful season.
Other teams are doing good business and personally, I think City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and probably Arsenal should all finish above us - barring major developments in terms of players coming in.
You have to back the manager and I think he was the right appointment, but the problems sit well above him. Remains to be seen I suppose but I'm expecting another painful season.
Very tough to say without having a clear image of the squad going into the new season. ETH will need time and patience even if he lands all his targets, the issues at the club run very deep
Right now I'd have the lowest expectation in league position going in to any season I can remember. The squad is in a desperate state.
By the end of the window it will improve but I don't see anything changing enough to dramatically change my expectation. Hoping to be surprised.
At this point all we've done is replace Telles as back up left back. We need to replace Greenwood, Pogba, Matic, Cavani and now probably Ronaldo just to stand still (ignoring the likes of Lingard and Mata). And that's before getting into vital upgrades required at RB and RW.
By the end of the window it will improve but I don't see anything changing enough to dramatically change my expectation. Hoping to be surprised.
At this point all we've done is replace Telles as back up left back. We need to replace Greenwood, Pogba, Matic, Cavani and now probably Ronaldo just to stand still (ignoring the likes of Lingard and Mata). And that's before getting into vital upgrades required at RB and RW.
dude - I’m 50.
I’ve been supporting Utd for 40 years. I was celebrating wins when you were squeezing spots on your funny face and jacking off to the swimwear section in Kay’s catalogue.
Cardiff city are my local club.
Can't say I believe that at all.
I mean, the current President of Barcelona literally said last night its time to make your mind up Frenkie... if you're staying you're staying on a pay cut, otherwise leave.
If he was so eager to join us, why is he still considering his options of A) A pay cut and staying at Barca or B) Joining us.
I created a thread a few days back asking is it still possible to have an excellent transfer window and I was generally mocked for it. Ronaldo is a further indication that its not going well. Its not just signings. Its the message the club is sending out. The whole it takes time to build, we cant sign that many people in one transfer window, everyone gets a second chance etc. Even the fans are parroting this bullshit now.
Now people are going to laugh and say what do you mean. Of course you cant sign 10 players you idiot! Yes probably. But ask yourselves how big clubs act. How would Klopp, Guardiola act after last season? Even Touchel, Conte etc. Do you think they will be parroting the 3 year build, it takes time sht. No. They will be demanding change. They will be demanding standards. They will be demanding accountability. Look at Spurs and Conte. He gave that team a load of sht already. He is demanding change and they are making serious moves in the market. Where is the whole bullshit of lets accept mediocracy?
Same as Arteta. Arguably their best player in Aubamayang started dropping standards. Their captain! What happened? Dropped. Then out. That's how you expect big clubs to act. That's what Ronaldo was expecting. Not just transfers. He was expecting a change in the ethos of the club.
Well now people will say but we have let loads of players go and we have a new manager. He will play all fancy next year. Thats just bollocks. Its not enough. Do people have such short memories? The fkers downed tools! Literally. And game after game. Plus they fought like sht behind closed doors. Plus they leaked to the press. And it been going on for years. They downed tools for Mourinho. Even Keane said this team will throw you under the bus. I can go on and on. The evidence is there. The verdict is out. Guilty.
So how would a change of ethos look?
1)Dont keep going on about rebuild and second chances. Yes it might even be true that players get second chances but no one cares. The message should not be about 3 years, 5 years. Either dont say anything or say something that demands standards, chance etc. Like oh I dont know. 'We have to get top 4 next season. I've set our strikers goal targets they must hit. We will not score anymore sloppy goals.' Whatever. I dont care. Talk about what you are going to do not about second chances and future and maybes and possibilities.
2) Get the wasters out of the club. I dont care if its Maguire, Rashford, Ronaldo, Varane, De Gea. I dont care. Someone has to take accountability for last season. Yeah maybe you cat get rid of all of them but 1 or two. Not the players that are walking out like Pogba or even Ronaldo. Those players that send a message that its not acceptable to down tools. At the start of the window it should have come out - Maguire and Rashford up for sale. Its about sending a message that the club is bigger than the players and you cant drop standards. Thats just rule 1 of a football club. Even Sir Alex did that continually. Everyone does.
3) We make signings for the first team. Not back ups. Malacia fine. But he means nothing. He is a back up. De Jong is a first teamer that walks in and improves the team. Martinelli and Antony are back ups. Whats the point? If you are telling me that Martenelli is walking in and replacing Maguire and Varane and Lindelof and will be a top top player in season 1 then fine. But he wont. Same as Antony. Is he walking in and getting 10 goals and replacing Sancho and Rashford? Or is he being brought to peak in 3, years. If so whats the point. Thats what Ronaldo sees. He wants the first team improved. Not in 3 years. Now. And the defeatist attitude will now show - oh its not possible, blah blah blah. Well try. De Jong, Bissouma, Lamptey, Torres, Gnabry. First teamers. It was possible. Or at least we could have tried. But no. We will keep the bottlers and down toolers and get some back ups so they rest a bit.
Now people are going to laugh and say what do you mean. Of course you cant sign 10 players you idiot! Yes probably. But ask yourselves how big clubs act. How would Klopp, Guardiola act after last season? Even Touchel, Conte etc. Do you think they will be parroting the 3 year build, it takes time sht. No. They will be demanding change. They will be demanding standards. They will be demanding accountability. Look at Spurs and Conte. He gave that team a load of sht already. He is demanding change and they are making serious moves in the market. Where is the whole bullshit of lets accept mediocracy?
Same as Arteta. Arguably their best player in Aubamayang started dropping standards. Their captain! What happened? Dropped. Then out. That's how you expect big clubs to act. That's what Ronaldo was expecting. Not just transfers. He was expecting a change in the ethos of the club.
Well now people will say but we have let loads of players go and we have a new manager. He will play all fancy next year. Thats just bollocks. Its not enough. Do people have such short memories? The fkers downed tools! Literally. And game after game. Plus they fought like sht behind closed doors. Plus they leaked to the press. And it been going on for years. They downed tools for Mourinho. Even Keane said this team will throw you under the bus. I can go on and on. The evidence is there. The verdict is out. Guilty.
So how would a change of ethos look?
1)Dont keep going on about rebuild and second chances. Yes it might even be true that players get second chances but no one cares. The message should not be about 3 years, 5 years. Either dont say anything or say something that demands standards, chance etc. Like oh I dont know. 'We have to get top 4 next season. I've set our strikers goal targets they must hit. We will not score anymore sloppy goals.' Whatever. I dont care. Talk about what you are going to do not about second chances and future and maybes and possibilities.
2) Get the wasters out of the club. I dont care if its Maguire, Rashford, Ronaldo, Varane, De Gea. I dont care. Someone has to take accountability for last season. Yeah maybe you cat get rid of all of them but 1 or two. Not the players that are walking out like Pogba or even Ronaldo. Those players that send a message that its not acceptable to down tools. At the start of the window it should have come out - Maguire and Rashford up for sale. Its about sending a message that the club is bigger than the players and you cant drop standards. Thats just rule 1 of a football club. Even Sir Alex did that continually. Everyone does.
3) We make signings for the first team. Not back ups. Malacia fine. But he means nothing. He is a back up. De Jong is a first teamer that walks in and improves the team. Martinelli and Antony are back ups. Whats the point? If you are telling me that Martenelli is walking in and replacing Maguire and Varane and Lindelof and will be a top top player in season 1 then fine. But he wont. Same as Antony. Is he walking in and getting 10 goals and replacing Sancho and Rashford? Or is he being brought to peak in 3, years. If so whats the point. Thats what Ronaldo sees. He wants the first team improved. Not in 3 years. Now. And the defeatist attitude will now show - oh its not possible, blah blah blah. Well try. De Jong, Bissouma, Lamptey, Torres, Gnabry. First teamers. It was possible. Or at least we could have tried. But no. We will keep the bottlers and down toolers and get some back ups so they rest a bit.
When you put it like that, it was perfectly acceptable to down tools for an entire season.
Pretty bloody awful. The lack of succession planning and strategy - somewhat reminiscent of the post-Busby team - has really come into its own now. I believe that we have a proper coach at the helm now, but he needs more to work with than we have or look like putting up enough money to bring in.
I am the opposite in that o couldn't be arsed to watch us since January. It was too depressing.
At the moment, I am looking forward to next season. I think it's the first time when we have a proper manager with modern football ideas and a clear vision of how he sees the team play.
I appreciate this.
For instance, honestly if I was EtH and Ronaldo was still there next season and not doing what was asked by the manager, I'd drop him, and use him as appropriate. There has to be buy-in to the manager's vision, a focus on standards now, and I think the point about Aubameyang is a very good one. The players know that they've been backed over a succession of managers, and every year a new manager comes in, they get a new "chance", and can therefore continue to steal a living while playing for a club that is above many of their stations.
Getting us back to being a well run club is a ten year project but maybe five to do the bulk of it. So worrying about next season too much is a bit silly. It's an open question whether the work will be done but at them moment it appears that the right things are being talked about anyway. Worrying about Ronaldo is even more absurd. He's obviously not going to fit in with ETHs style of play so it's in everyone's interests that he goes.
The real issue is that no matter how well run we are we are always going to be second best to City and any other sportswashing venture (Chelsea under Abramovitch, Saudi Newcastle possibly) because they have a business model that doesn't require them to make a profit. So the Glazers are never going to go all out to try and be the best because it makes no business sense to do so.
The real issue is that no matter how well run we are we are always going to be second best to City and any other sportswashing venture (Chelsea under Abramovitch, Saudi Newcastle possibly) because they have a business model that doesn't require them to make a profit. So the Glazers are never going to go all out to try and be the best because it makes no business sense to do so.
4/10. We'll finish 6th or 7th at this rate. People will turn on Ten Hag, but its not his fault, we'll play the same crap zombie football with the same dickhead players as we always have because we can't get rid of crap and we can't bring in 8 or 9 top players which we need. This team needed gutting and restarting.
Point Break reference
yes indeed! Welcome to sea world kid!
They call him the Bodhisattva…
Really? He is 37..
We were not winning the league .. find somebody that gels with the team and can score 10 goals. .
Hell swap him for Werner
Wow - I got an official warning for saying pretty much this, although maybe in stronger terms! Couldn't agree more
I don't think it's too bad at all.
Actually, I think ten Hag will be praised as the second coming of Ferguson because we'll be very competitive starting this season after coming 6th last time. I think our squad is not that bad at all and with a couple of good signings, addressing key positions, we should have our best season yet since Ferguson left...providing that ETH is an elite manager, but everything suggests that he is in fact, very elite.
Under Ole we made progress in his first two seasons, but then last summer we made an emotional decision in signing Ronaldo which proved to be a fatal mistake and not just halted progress, but sent us backwards due to Ole trying to shoehorn too many stars into the team (playing a passenger like Pogba in CM instead of the left side where he probably had the most success during his United career + playing Ronaldo up front). Had we signed a good defensive midfielder to replace Fred, we would've mounted a title challenge imo but would've still came third with ~80-85 points due to Cavani always being injured and Martial being a lazy bitch.
The center of the midfield is not a position where you can be lacking quality players but still looking to win trophies. McFred was a good enough stop-gap pair to make top 4 in 2 consecutive seasons, but the Brazilian was always going to be replaced because of his unreliability. Thankfully, this summer due to ETH coming in we have what is probably a one-time opportunity to bring in de Jong, who is the perfect signing to start "rebuilding" around, although I don't think we need that big of a rebuild, certainly not 8-10 first teamers like a certain German fraud suggested.
Sure, we are still in dire need of a striker, right winger and right back, but I'm pretty sure we'll address at least one of those 3 positions which should be enough for us to make top 4 in the 2022/23 season. I don't think Malacia and Martínez (especially the latter, Malacia is understandable in the end because Shaw is very injury prone, Telles is dogshit and Fernandez is unknown + the guy looks special and 15m for him is a steal when had he went to OL he probably would've been sold for 60m or more within 2-3 seasons) are THAT important, but they seem like special players that definitely offer something new to the team.
So even if we won't have every position addressed (no teams have that, let's be honest, City won so many leagues without a striker or left-back) I'm pretty optimistic. This is still the team that finished on 74 points and then added Varane, Sancho, potentially de Jong, Malacia, Martínez and a couple more players whilst getting rid of deadwood, past-it players + toxic cnuts like Pogba and Lingard.
I'm pretty sure many people will be surprised when we have a very good season.
Actually, I think ten Hag will be praised as the second coming of Ferguson because we'll be very competitive starting this season after coming 6th last time. I think our squad is not that bad at all and with a couple of good signings, addressing key positions, we should have our best season yet since Ferguson left...providing that ETH is an elite manager, but everything suggests that he is in fact, very elite.
Under Ole we made progress in his first two seasons, but then last summer we made an emotional decision in signing Ronaldo which proved to be a fatal mistake and not just halted progress, but sent us backwards due to Ole trying to shoehorn too many stars into the team (playing a passenger like Pogba in CM instead of the left side where he probably had the most success during his United career + playing Ronaldo up front). Had we signed a good defensive midfielder to replace Fred, we would've mounted a title challenge imo but would've still came third with ~80-85 points due to Cavani always being injured and Martial being a lazy bitch.
The center of the midfield is not a position where you can be lacking quality players but still looking to win trophies. McFred was a good enough stop-gap pair to make top 4 in 2 consecutive seasons, but the Brazilian was always going to be replaced because of his unreliability. Thankfully, this summer due to ETH coming in we have what is probably a one-time opportunity to bring in de Jong, who is the perfect signing to start "rebuilding" around, although I don't think we need that big of a rebuild, certainly not 8-10 first teamers like a certain German fraud suggested.
Sure, we are still in dire need of a striker, right winger and right back, but I'm pretty sure we'll address at least one of those 3 positions which should be enough for us to make top 4 in the 2022/23 season. I don't think Malacia and Martínez (especially the latter, Malacia is understandable in the end because Shaw is very injury prone, Telles is dogshit and Fernandez is unknown + the guy looks special and 15m for him is a steal when had he went to OL he probably would've been sold for 60m or more within 2-3 seasons) are THAT important, but they seem like special players that definitely offer something new to the team.
So even if we won't have every position addressed (no teams have that, let's be honest, City won so many leagues without a striker or left-back) I'm pretty optimistic. This is still the team that finished on 74 points and then added Varane, Sancho, potentially de Jong, Malacia, Martínez and a couple more players whilst getting rid of deadwood, past-it players + toxic cnuts like Pogba and Lingard.
I'm pretty sure many people will be surprised when we have a very good season.
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Did you see last season? Rashford and Martial aren't players that did feck all all season. 20+ goals from someone who can't even get proper service from the eejits around him. Yeah, horrific. Swap him for Werner? OK now you are trolling
Of course things are bad. It doesn't take much of a post mortem of last season to come to that realisation. The squad is low on numbers in some positions, lacking quality in many positions and lacking any cohesiveness. It's as bad as it gets for a club of our size who are never seriously flirting with relegation. At the moment we are what we are, a 6th place team that has not got any stronger but does have a rated manager. You can put whatever out of 10 that you want on it but they're the facts of the matter.
I just don't see any merit in going on and on about how good or bad things are at the start of the window. What is the point? It relies too much on speculation. What if Ronaldo goes. What if De Jong doesn't sign. What if, what if, what if. You can spin every negotiation we're in into something good or bad depending on your disposition and what you choose to believe.
Sometimes you just have to be comfortable with a little uncertainty and make an assessment when there is one to be made. That's not to say we don't discuss elements of the summer but making an overall assessment of a position that will be shifting all the time is what drives transfer Muppets crazy. That's why we see so many circular discussions.
I just don't see any merit in going on and on about how good or bad things are at the start of the window. What is the point? It relies too much on speculation. What if Ronaldo goes. What if De Jong doesn't sign. What if, what if, what if. You can spin every negotiation we're in into something good or bad depending on your disposition and what you choose to believe.
Sometimes you just have to be comfortable with a little uncertainty and make an assessment when there is one to be made. That's not to say we don't discuss elements of the summer but making an overall assessment of a position that will be shifting all the time is what drives transfer Muppets crazy. That's why we see so many circular discussions.
We are playing for top 4 .. that's it ..there is no trophies this season..maybe europa ..Did you see last season? Rashford and Martial aren't players that did feck all all season. 20+ goals from someone who can't even get proper service from the eejits around him. Yeah, horrific. Swap him for Werner? OK now you are trolling
If we can get Ziyech and Werner for Ronaldo...I am all for it .. .. we need to spread the goals ..not have 1 player score them..
It's coming down from a 9 to a 6 simply because we have a new CEO. Woodward was that bad.
The new manager brings us from the 6 to a 4.
If we get all the players Ten Hag wants then we're down to a 3. And can build on that in coming seasons and hopefully challenge for the title by the third season
The new manager brings us from the 6 to a 4.
If we get all the players Ten Hag wants then we're down to a 3. And can build on that in coming seasons and hopefully challenge for the title by the third season
can we discuss whether we really came 2nd or not
I don't know why you got warned for having an opinion. But I can't see how we can be worse than last season. And yet, although we finished last out of the big 6 clubs, we still finished above everyone else. Relegation form is a huge exaggeration.
2-3 think 4th 5th but a lot closer with much improved football. Also EL win