What did they say ? Liverpool fans are scum ? Oh bless your cotton socks.. Hardened football hooligans and because they print a nasty banner you get all uppity about it. By your rational the next time we play you, then our fans are entttled to run into your end, cause 39 of fans to die, and if anyone asks why, we'll say "they made up a nasty flag about us so blame them.. not us"
And what if they did post derogatory remarks.. If they didnt think it before the night, they sure as helll had enough evidence afterwards.
Fredthered I just don't understand how you can 'hate' other teams footie fans. I just find it small minded and well, sad..
I don't recall anyone getting 'uppity' about the contents of the flag. It simply paints a picture of what was going on inside the head of a Juventus supporter that night.
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Liverpool played a hell of a lot more European games than any English club during the 70's & up until the mid-80's. Played when footballing stadia was at it's worse, & hooliganism was at it's peak. Yet prior to Heysel, we were never involved in any trouble away from these shores. This is more than can be said for a lot of English clubs. United themselves were forced to play down in Plymouth because of your hooligan element causing havoc over in France in 1977. So are you implying, that all things considered, it was only Liverpool fans who could have been involved in the deaths of other football supporters during this same period ?
No, I donot believe his implying that Heysel could ONLY have happened to Liverpool - however.
1. Yes, United had trouble in St. Ettienne in the '77/78 CWC' - mostly with the Police from accounts I have heard, but I don't recall our fans blaming anyone else for our woes - I remember watching the beam-back from Plymouth at OT.
2. Yes, the Leeds fans at the '75 EC Final' in Paris went mental after Lorimers' goal was disallowed and Bayern killed them twice on the break. Seats were thrown etc. etc..... oddly enough, Leeds were banned from Europe for a season or two, but I don't recall Leeds portioning blame elsewhere....
3. I think the over-riding concern is that, though Heysel could have caused problems for other English club's followers, if it had, I think the other club's followers would have held their hands up and accepted responsibility.
4. Look at point 3 , unfortunately LFC fans have always tried to deflect any blame and never accepted responsibility. 39 people died as a result of your fans charging, how can none of it be your fault ? The fact that there's only just this year some form of official recognition by your club after 25 years is the case in point.
5. When you hear John Aldridge talk about the LFC side of 87-88 and the missed opportunity of European football and what they may have or not have done, there's no modicum of thought or comment that there was no European football because of an incident for which Liverpools' own fans were responsible. More that it was Maggie's / UEFA's fault ..... Unbelievable
All aimed at our hated Mancunian rivals if I'm not mistaken. That's not to say I'm condoning such things of course. But why would a Juventus supporter want to take it upon himself to write derogatory stuff about a club, that up until then, had nothing in common with regards to rivalry - I don't suppose this could possibly give you an insight into the mindset of some of the Juve supporters that night ?
feck sake. They deserved all they got then.
I wish I stormed the Juve fans at the Stade delle Alpi when they held up banners saying 'English Animals' & 'God feck The Queen'
I was livid I tell thee.
Firstly, that so called statement of fact isnt actually a statement of fact. The only people who are claiming they were provoked are Liverpool fans. The enquiry found no conclusive evidence of Juvenus fans heing any more volatile than you would expect at a match of that magnitude.
Which is ironic because the author of that piece goes to great lengths to suggest that what went on at the game was really no different to what you would see at any other football match of that era.. Just precisely how many times did Liverpool fans en masse charge at opposing fans on the terraces in response to "average" football banter, which is what the author goes to great pains to explain what it was.
Just because someone says something is a fact, it doesnt make it true. Ask Kelvin McKenzie, I am sure he likewise likes to consider what he says to be factual, but we all know that sometimes people do lie, expecially when faced with the consequences of their actions.
Secondly, I would like to draw your attention to a website that explains some of the fans sentiments about the day. I will post a few snippets from it, which contradict totally the notion that up till the game, all was peaceful.
We felt very uneasy sitting outside the ground, as did my mates and we decided that basically, for safety, we would go into the ground If everything was peaceful why would they feel it was unsafe ?
About an hour before the scheduled kick-off time tempers became frayed inside the ground, both sets of fans baited each other through a segregating fence made from chicken wire Am admission that Liverpool fans were equally as guilty about baiting the opposition.
I mean everyone I think was so wound up by the attitude of the police. I mean the lad with me, he got in and he had a gun pulled on him by one of the police! He had a ticket, but because he ducked away from being hit with over the head with the truncheon that happened And there you have it.. THe Liverpool fans were "wound up".. Would it be more truthful to suggest that Liverpool fans feeling aggrieved at the attention of the police set out on a course of action that had nothing in reality to do with Juventus fans.
You say you would rather take notice of people who were there.. Yes you would say that wouldnt you.. Given that you were one of them.. If you repeat something enough times, eventually you can convince yourself that what you are saying is the truth..
The only real truth I am bothered about is that the Liverpool fans charged, and 39 fans died as a result.. That is the truth. Paint over it all you like, blame who you like, but the fact is without your fans charging that wall would not have collapsed, unfit ground, bad policing or not.. It was YOUR actions that caused it.
You'd have been furious then when they started chucking rocks at you.
