Henderson, Pogba, Lingard, Cavani - The invisible importance of their exits

[JPRouve]

Lots of anti Pogba chants due to his parents Marseille links. Home and away. That's a good percentage of their fan base.

Anyway, will have to agree to disagree or we will go round in circles, like mist Pogba threads .

His parents have no Marseille links and there has never been lots of anti Pogba chants, there has been some after an interview that he gave for Canal plus.

 

[TheReligion]

I have high level inside knowledge of the situation, and I will tell you that the biggest problem of all, Ronaldo, is the issue that needs to be dealt with most urgently. He simply has to leave.

You don’t say that without expanding.

Go

 

[thegregster]

We still have the likes of Shaw,Maguire,Martial,Rashford,Sancho etc to destroy squad moral and to go crying to their agents about the manager when things go wrong. Id give it about 3 games.

 

[AdNani]

We still have the likes of Shaw,Maguire,Martial,Rashford,Sancho etc to destroy squad moral and to go crying to their agents about the manager when things go wrong. Id give it about 3 games.

What Evidence is there of Sancho running to his agent? ever? even when he didn't get the move the first summer to us there was no complaints from him.

 

[Azhar88]

If I needed information on Pogba being a supposedly good influence in the dressing room, I’d have rewatched the France all or nothing documentary. He came across reasonably well there. However, the cold hard facts are that he showed absolutely no regard for the fans, the manager and the club in almost every international break from 2017-18 onwards. Fans will never tolerate that. I’m not trying to turn him into a boogeyman; he did that himself.

I don't think Pogba came across well at the last big tournament though (Euro 2021) was that in the documentary? I haven't watched it. He scored a great third goal to get to 3:1 vs Switzerland but then did a dance, then another dance & then a third dance. It's the way Paul celebrated. Like he's the 1 - over the top and milked it dry and there were still 20 minutes to go.

Switzerland won the match by-the-way and France were knocked-out and that in a nutshell is Paul Pogba, its all about him, not the team and that attitude is 10x worse when it comes to his club not his country, which considering the money paid (by the club), is obscene. I'm glad he's gone. He typifies all that is wrong in modern football - its a team game, yet some top players seem to forget that and they end up with great personal stats, but not that many titles or cups.

Ridiculous take on Cavani. The guy dialled in a full season on full pay, made himself available for about 30% of our games and 85% of international games. Refused to play when the club considered him fit. The biggest disgrace of a mercenary to dump himself at United since DiMaria

Cavani to be fair, as noodlehair also pointed out, was persuaded to stay at United but then Ronaldo was bought! Not only that, in some strange bending of FA rules, his shirt number (7) goes to the Portugese prima donna. Cavani said at the time, he was totally fine with that, but I don't think he was - he couldn't say what he really felt Man United will have insisted he went along with it, because open dissension looks bad, but he showed his real feelings throughout the rest of the season. In some alternative history of season 2021/22 who knows what might have happened if Ronaldo had gone to City: Cavani may have bagged 30 goals and dragged MUFC into 4th. Ralf Rangnick would have got the consultancy 2 year contract he was promised (that I think was withdrawn due to non-qualification for the CL) and Bryan Robson and Sir Alex Ferguson* would remain historic heroes, not current new consultants. Oh and MCFC will have ended the season in second and therefore trophyless for the season!

*Ironically it was Sir Alex who persuaded Ronaldo to come back, causing the Cavani issue (in my opinion) and also causing a massive headache for ETH as he starts in the managers hotseat because Ronaldo is still here!

 

[RaddyRed]

His parents have no Marseille links and there has never been lots of anti Pogba chants, there has been some after an interview that he gave for Canal plus.

His parents are Marseille fans ffs



"I'm sure that I wouldn't play club football at the Parc des Princes," he told Canal+.
"I'm not attracted to that because my father and mother were fans of Marseille so Paris doesn't really fit into my plans.




But I suppose just a post disagreeing by you means Pogba was just joking.

I will save you the post, Pogba has no parents and doesn't know where Marseille is

 

[JPRouve]

His parents are Marseille fans ffs

Which isn't a link to Marseille and anyway their manager is a Marseille fan from Marseille.

 

[wolvored]

If this is true, why do you think the club are keen to keep him?

Save having to shell out on another striker.

 

[Chris M]

Add Shaw to the list, too, he did a few good things against Villa but was 10 yards out of position puffy and blowing to get back for their first goal and a number of time before and after.

 

[Jeppers7]

I don't think Pogba came across well at the last big tournament though (Euro 2021) was that in the documentary? I haven't watched it. He scored a great third goal to get to 3:1 vs Switzerland but then did a dance, then another dance & then a third dance. It's the way Paul celebrated. Like he's the 1 - over the top and milked it dry and there were still 20 minutes to go.

Switzerland won the match by-the-way and France were knocked-out and that in a nutshell is Paul Pogba, its all about him, not the team and that attitude is 10x worse when it comes to his club not his country, which considering the money paid (by the club), is obscene. I'm glad he's gone. He typifies all that is wrong in modern football - its a team game, yet some top players seem to forget that and they end up with great personal stats, but not that many titles or cups.



Cavani to be fair, as noodlehair also pointed out, was persuaded to stay at United but then Ronaldo was bought! Not only that, in some strange bending of FA rules, his shirt number (7) goes to the Portugese prima donna. Cavani said at the time, he was totally fine with that, but I don't think he was - he couldn't say what he really felt Man United will have insisted he went along with it, because open dissension looks bad, but he showed his real feelings throughout the rest of the season. In some alternative history of season 2021/22 who knows what might have happened if Ronaldo had gone to City: Cavani may have bagged 30 goals and dragged MUFC into 4th. Ralf Rangnick would have got the consultancy 2 year contract he was promised (that I think was withdrawn due to non-qualification for the CL) and Bryan Robson and Sir Alex Ferguson* would remain historic heroes, not current new consultants. Oh and MCFC will have ended the season in second and therefore trophyless for the season!

*Ironically it was Sir Alex who persuaded Ronaldo to come back, causing the Cavani issue (in my opinion) and also causing a massive headache for ETH as he starts in the managers hotseat because Ronaldo is still here!

I’m really struggling to get the acceptance that some have, reasoning that because we signed another forward that it gave Cavani the right to phone the season in.

 

[spiriticon]

People have too much focus on the incoming players, but the outgoings are just as critical to us these days.

We need to get rid of the cnuts in our squad and finally get a team mentality going again.

 

[Lentwood]

Down more to Ole than individuals to be honest.

Henderson and Lingard wanted to leave or be given more game time and he kept both and then didn't play them. We even had a very good offer for Lingard from West Ham given his contract situation.

Pogba should have gone years ago just on the basis he clearly didn't really want to stay and wasn't reliable on the pitch.

Cavan also had to be talked into staying and then we immediately signed Ronaldo so he was never going to play.

I wouldn't say the behaviour of the players doesn't deserve criticism, but in every case it could have been avoided by just managing them fairly, or at least not managing them like a clown. Which in each case would have just meant selling them or letting them leave rather than keep them and force them to be miserable.

It's also probably cost us 50m+ in missed transfer fees, and now we're busy quibbling over fractions of that amount when trying to sign players.

Totally agree with all of that, saves me a post!

 

[Azhar88]

I’m really struggling to get the acceptance that some have, reasoning that because we signed another forward that it gave Cavani the right to phone the season in.

Look, I'm not totally backing his behaviour, I was just trying to put it into context. Part of the problem with all of these discussions, is the money these guys are on which makes things a zillion times worse in the eyes of the average fan.

Let me try and draw a comparison with the real world: where I earn my money (a public sector role involving training) - at the beginning of this year 4 staff members were given a free day off to attend a pre-wedding event. I think management were rewarding them for lots of extra stuff they did during lockdown and were sympathetic as the wedding had been delayed (twice) due to the pandemic. This was supposed to be kept secret - but due to facebook! it was soon common knowledge. The staff concerned and the manager who signed this off are all good friends too, which didn't help.

It was a small matter, but it caused ructions right thoughout the organisation and for six months management have been battling low morale and dissension in the ranks. Cliques have developed and gossip and rumour mongering has blighted team cohesion. Some colleagues have been on long-term stress related absence and several have even left.

One small mis-step by those in power can mess everything up. So at United, who knows what the other players (maybe Cavani's mates) thought, when Ronaldo came in. Some may have had this mindset: oh so they are replacing my mate who is 33 and has shown in his first season to be a hard-worker with great movement off the ball, with someone 3 years older, who will run around less (meaning I have to run around more) and on top of that he gets the No. 7 shirt (as if he bloody owns it). Furthermore, he gets twice my friends wages and three times what I'm getting!

That could throw the whole season out of whack and in my opinion, it did.

So in conclusion, lets chill down on the Cavani criticism and prey Ronaldo leaves in the next two-to-three weeks.

 

[Jeppers7]

Look, I'm not totally backing his behaviour, I was just trying to put it into context. Part of the problem with all of these discussions, is the money these guys are on which makes things a zillion times worse in the eyes of the average fan.

Let me try and draw a comparison with the real world: where I earn my money (a public sector role involving training) - at the beginning of this year 4 staff members were given a free day off to attend a pre-wedding event. I think management were rewarding them for lots of extra stuff they did during lockdown and were sympathetic as the wedding had been delayed (twice) due to the pandemic. This was supposed to be kept secret - but due to facebook! it was soon common knowledge. The staff concerned and the manager who signed this off are all good friends too, which didn't help.

It was a small matter, but it caused ructions right thoughout the organisation and for six months management have been battling low morale and dissension in the ranks. Cliques have developed and gossip and rumour mongering has blighted team cohesion. Some colleagues have been on long-term stress related absence and several have even left.

One small mis-step by those in power can mess everything up. So at United, who knows what the other players (maybe Cavani's mates) thought, when Ronaldo came in. Some may have had this mindset: oh so they are replacing my mate who is 33 and has shown in his first season to be a hard-worker with great movement off the ball, with someone 3 years older, who will run around less (meaning I have to run around more) and on top of that he gets the No. 7 shirt (as if he bloody owns it). Furthermore, he gets twice my friends wages and three times what I'm getting!

That could throw the whole season out of whack and in my opinion, it did.

So in conclusion, lets chill down on the Cavani criticism and prey Ronaldo leaves in the next two-to-three weeks.

You can if you want. He asked to leave in his first season as well, also asked to play for uruguay for months of his second season and bar a six week purple patch when top four was already secure, he scored in about 8 games for us outside of it. He didn’t do anything to warrant favours.

 

[bosnian_red]

Until Ronaldo leaves, the squad isn't clean.

 

[Gator Nate]

Matic and Mata I feel sorry for, didn’t play much themselves but proper professionals and had decent cameos in their final games.

I don't really feel sorry for Matic, but I'm grateful to both of them. Matic was only let down by Father Time. He was used as much as he could be, but he just didn't have the legs for 90 minutes twice a week. Mata, it's a little harder to say, but I do think he was underutilized. As you said, they were proper professionals.

 

[mitchmouse]

You don’t say that without expanding.

Go

don't hold your breath waiting for actual evidence and facts

 

[soapythecat]

You can add Ronaldo to the list of horribly toxic personalities. Problem is that he’s still there.

But all in all, I agree with your post. I think it’s great that they are all gone. We now need to focus on bring in 2-3 more players before the deadline.

Jones, Bailly, Wan Bissaka and Telles should all also leave, but for sporting reasons, and to raise funds for further incomings. Amad, Hannibal and Pellestri should also go out on loan.

The dressing was absolutely fractured and toxic last season and it needed to be cleaned up. You can’t win anything if everyone isn’t pulling in the same direction. I have high level inside knowledge of the situation, and I will tell you that the biggest problem of all, Ronaldo, is the issue that needs to be dealt with most urgently. He simply has to leave.

High level of inside knowledge….of course you do. If Ronaldo really was such a big issue in the dressing room as you obviously know about, how come the club are fighting to keep hold of him?

 

[scottser]

High level of inside knowledge….of course you do. If Ronaldo really was such a big issue in the dressing room as you obviously know about, how come the club are fighting to keep hold of him?

It doesn't come across that the club is fighting to keep him; they just expect him to knuckle down and work while he's here in the absence of either an offer from another club or a request from Ronaldo to buy out the remainder of his contract. I'd say an offer of a set of jerseys and a net of footballs would be enough for us to let him go tbh.