Have we bought a midfielder yet? (Jan 2022 edition) No! Dog sipping coffee: This is fine.
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
Tielemans. I don't understand how we even let him move to Leicester when we were so desperately missing any sort of quality in midfield.
How many more shit players on ridiculous fees do we need to buy from Dortmund before we change strategy?
We need a player in the Carrick mould if we're getting one midfielder. It has to be someone who can take the ball from the CBs and pick out a decent pass. Enough of the obvious, safe passes to the full backs.
Tielemans is my preferred option.
I'll revisit this thread in the Summer edition
Yes, that's an exaggeration. Fred, McT and probably DvdB would probably play week in week out for the majority of teams in the PL. They're not that bad, or even bad. They're just being asked to deliver things they can't in roles they're not suited to, because we have a badly mismatched midfield group. And because they usually have four very attacking minded players ahead of them, and a not very high line behind them, backed up by a goalkeeper who doesn't sweep. And mostly face teams who outnumber them in that area of the pitch.
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If you can't name more than 2 midfields we bossed than 90% is the correct answer.
He’s cleared to play anywhere but Italy
Doesn`t this happen every year, more or less?
We just added Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo in the summer, we had one of the best windows in ages, and we still managed to take 3 step backwards.
This may as well be Jan 2027 edition
What an odd statement, so your basically saying whoever anybody suggests, will turn to crap. Odd little man
He has been on the wane for quite some time and his health is not that great. I think we can do better then him
Every game.?
we will not sign anyone, unless he is 17-18 and priced over 35 mil.
Pretty much, yeah. And they're not bad in every game either.
What most are seeing and saying, is they are not good enough and are getting outplayed almost every game. So who is right. The Interim manager is wanting new midfielders and the board are against his choices.
This is not looking good for Rangnick who is supposed to be in charge of who is coming in for next 2 seasons.
I'm not saying they are good enough either. On the contrary, I am saying that they are not good enough to deliver what this team requires from their central midfield pairing. I am just pointing out that this is not the same thing as their being bad players, and also that there are reasons beyond their individual ability why they are not able to give this team what it needs. More specifically, I was responding to a ridiculous post arguing that they're worse than 75% of PL midfielders.
They are just Not good enough for us then.
At least not in the roles they're currently being asked to fill, and given how the rest of the team functions, no.
It should be obvious by now to anybody that watches us regularly that, for whatever reason, we are not a team that is trying to dominate the midfield area. We can all argue about the wisdom of such an approach, but our strategy is different. We could play another midfielder any time we want to and have more control, but we don't, because that's not the plan. Midfield is seen as almost an inconvenience by this club, and Fred & McTominay are the sacrificial lambs.
It's impossible to think about for any length of time without getting a headache, but what is unfair is labelling McFred as a couple of sub-standard donkeys because they are not the biggest reason we are struggling.
Because he flopped in Monaco before joining Leicester on loan.
I agree with that, on the whole. It seems clear to me we need better (and above all a different kind of) players in those two positions if we are going to make a 4231 work, which after all quite a lot of teams manage to do. But it also seems plain we're playing in a way that exposes the central pairing to a particularly difficult situation, with a no 10 that is essentially a part of the attackers group, and a back 4 that doesn't seem to push as high as most other teams with a similarly attacking mentality. The unclarity and wild variance of the Full Backs posture probably doesn't help either. If we can find two players who are able to thrive on those terms, they're going to have to be a good deal better than just good.
Our fans still getting excited about transfers and having that attitude of "we just need the next position" is really no different than believing in Santa at this point. I mean, just how? How can so many people genuinely believe that the only difference is just a world class partner at the back, and then it was so obvious, we just needed a right winger. Before that, we just needed a proper playmaker and maybe just one more player who is comfortable on the ball in midfield. There is always a bloody position that needs to be sorted. City had basically no left back since Pep arrived. They won titles with Delph, Zinchenko and Cancelo at left back. They have virtually no strikers. Liverpool's CL and PL winning midfield was laughed at some point by us. If we'd gone for Henderson and Wijnaldum, the epitome of PL mediocrity at the time, the Glazers would have been murdered in the press. Even that ridiculous Barcelona side on paper, could maybe do with a right winger and maybe a left back with Abidal's unfortunate struggles and the very good, yet far from world class Pedro. Bayern annihilated everyone around them under Heynckes with a bloke called Dante and Gustavo starting for them. Their 9 was Mandzukic.
Despite all these examples, we remain the only major club in Europe who always just needs to fix the next position with a bonafide ready world class performer, because yes, that last position is indeed the last piece and how on earth can anyone compete if not every position is stacked with world class talent before they even arrive at your training ground.
Because "stacked with world class talent at every position" would be a pretty accurate description of the main competitors for a title?
Liverpool thought they were a world class CB and GK away from contending, and the brought in VGD and Allisson, and they contended. Chelsea thought what they were missing was a world class striker, so they brought in Lukaku. I don't see how United is any different in this than other top clubs.
I mean, what teams would they start at?
Looking at the table I don't think they'd play at anyone in the top 10.
Villa are 13th and played rings around us in mf, i really dont think gerard would sign any of them, so that's 50 percent of the league.
Even if you go back to Fergie and those years in the mid '00s when Lampard and Gerrard were at their pomp. I remember us being criticized in the media for not having a midfielder of that ilk. Carrick was viewed as too timid and Scholes as too old. We won the title anyway because we didn't build a team on a dominant midfield. Their job was mostly to spread the play and launch quick balls to the front players virtually bypassing the buildup. Fergie of course knew what he was doing. He realized he had Ronaldo and Rooney and adapted to their strengths. He understood that he did not need midfielders who are more dominant because he knew the balance of the team was fine as is.
We went on to reinforce the defensive side with Hargreaves and then moved for Anderson, neither established themselves for different reasons and we went on to rely on O'Shea, Fletcher and Giggs to cover those positions. Our play suffered but not by as big margin as you'd expect because we just were never a team that tried to dominate midfields pro actively. Liverpool under Klopp are closer to that than say Pep's teams which is why Klopp's only investment in a top midfielder was probably their least influential major signing in Thiago. Barcelona when Xavi's influence started to decrease under Enrique were a similar animal. Busquets and Rakitic were playing the balls so much quicker to MSN then they would have few years back.
The only midfield in the world that proved capable of controlling possession without an entire coaching and transfer structure designated for it in the past decade is probably Real's. This is why I personally rate Modric the best midfielder in recent memory. But other than them, you just can't just buy good midfielders and dominate the middle. It's not the '90s.
United need 2 workhorses who can control and pass the ball well, in midfield now, but this is not all they need.
Our wingers need to improve in defending from the front, and our full backs need to have the energy to get up and down the flanks for 95 minutes. Then we might compete with the top 3.
Our wingers need to improve in defending from the front, and our full backs need to have the energy to get up and down the flanks for 95 minutes. Then we might compete with the top 3.
I'm not convinced that there are two midfielders on the planet that are going to be able to deliver dominant football for a team that, as you say, essentially plays a 424 with a too high attacking line and a too low defense. There is simply too much grass to cover and too many players in that area wearing different coloured football shirts.
In those matches where have found the right balance across the whole team, and every player is doing their job in a disciplined way, its rare that McFred have looked out of place. IMO
There's an argument that the club won't sign anyone while an interim manager is at the helm. But isn't that the sort of thing he'd be advising on anyway? Who knows for sure, but you'd imagine so. And then you've got Murtough as well who is expected to have input into these matters. It may be that the actual manager has less say in transfers overall.
Tempting to say we need to replace half the squad. That they just don't have the collective mentalities required to be winners. But I think the right signings with the right profile might transform this squad. Do I trust us to get it right though? It's hard to be optimistic....
Tempting to say we need to replace half the squad. That they just don't have the collective mentalities required to be winners. But I think the right signings with the right profile might transform this squad. Do I trust us to get it right though? It's hard to be optimistic....
So what? Do you imagine that's a direct measure of, in this case, Matic and Fred? For one thing, Villa plays a 3 man-midfield.
Considering Fred is chosen ahead of Fabinho for Brazil, that suggests he'd might hold some appeal for a few premier league sides as well....
Obviously lots of factors would go into such decisions for any team, but you don't think there's a case Fred or McT would frequently get the nod over someone like John McGinn?
Agreed. Good post.
Well put.
Yeah, but that was in the mid '00s where football was rather slow, there where only a few high pressing teams.
The current issue with our midfield is that it can't handle being pressured, can't move the ball quickly and long passes are quite average. These are issues that have nothing to do with a team being dominant from midfield or not, they're basics of the game these days.
If you don't have a midfield that can do the above 3 things, your team is cut in half in the attacking phase so defenders drop deeper, attackers have no clue what to do and suddenly you have a two man midfield being pushed around by anyone in the league.
We don't need midfielders to dominate the middle, we need midfielders good at 2-3-4 basic things required by modern football.
Frequently, no I genuinely don't think Gerard would. That doesn't mean I'd go out and sign John mcginn either.
Edit and just like that we are linked with mcginn.
Hes a definite upgrade to what we have but not the calibre of player we want if we want to push for titles.
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We have a chronic problem with recruiting central midfielders going back all the way to SAF. I remember when we got Herrera. It was a shock to the system to see an actual bone fide CM running around in midfield. Then we've had Fellaini, Fred and old Matic all very meh while the likes of Fabinio, gundogan tielsman etc were just waiting to be picked up by a big club. Pogba was supposed to be a great home coming but has flattered to deceive. Not to mention the farce that is the VDB signing.
Our problems further exacerbated by insisting on playing 2 isolated midfielders.
Its all just tragic. I really wouldn't be surprised if this summer we fail to sign a player. We'll put in Garner and call it a day.
Our problems further exacerbated by insisting on playing 2 isolated midfielders.
Its all just tragic. I really wouldn't be surprised if this summer we fail to sign a player. We'll put in Garner and call it a day.
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But don't you think being pressured is part of said tactical setup we are talking about? To navigate the press, you need technical quality and just as importantly a positional game where every ball carrier has options to pass the ball. We simply haven't looked to hone that part of our game since Van Gaal. To me, it all goes back to the same old expecting the players to figure it out. I am not saying that McFred are good, I am saying, I have no idea if they can be since I see them being asked to do much more than other midfields.
In my opinion the current midfielders are not bad footballers. They are simply (as some have already stated) played in positions that they are not suited for. If McT and Fred were allowed to move up the pitch without leaving a gaping hole in the midfield behind them it would also allow attacking midfielders and strikers to move differently. BUT for this to happen, what is needed is a midfielder who alone is positionally and physically strong enough to hold out the midfield. It will also need some time (!) to sync such player with the CBs. But with that central defensive trio (DM, 2xCB) nice and tight it would secure the center of the pitch - which has been a huge issue this season (exception being Matic some games). IF United can find such a midfielder, McT and/or Fred will be able to play creative football which will have an impact on how the attacking midfielders/wingers and strikers play. Good attacking football starts with good defending. Without the defense secured the attack will never function properly.
Or that's what I think at least!
Or that's what I think at least!
Yes, I completely agree with the above. We might not know if they're good enough because of the tactical setup, which is kinda sad if you ask me.
Haidara would be such a "meh" signing. Would be more encouraged with Kamara who is an actual DM. Haidara is neither a DM nor a passer. Which means I don't want him (or maybe at a certain point anything is an improvement... But still. We should prioritize a real DM or a deep passer).