Time really.
Either with more added time (were talking a average of 20+ minutes), more experienced refs/Var-refs to make the decisions faster (but still accurate).
Has VAR been a success in Russia 2018?
- Thread starter 99withaflake
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Either with more added time (were talking a average of 20+ minutes), more experienced refs/Var-refs to make the decisions faster (but still accurate).
A lot better than I thought it would be.
Still I'd like to see incidents like Griezmann conning the ref to be brought up. The video refs and people watching at home could all see it quickly on replay yet it couldn't be overruled.
Then there was a corner that should've been given to Croatia, the replay was shown within seconds. A quick word saying it clearly come off the French player would be handy. A 100% no interpretation is needed instance that could be made in the video room.
This goes back to clear and obvious. A decision can be made very quickly in these cases. Of course I don't want every decision looked at with refs looking who it come off last for a minute but the problem is conning the ref with no contact on the edge of the box which results in a goal in a world cup final is poor and also disgraceful from Griezmann.
Still I'd like to see incidents like Griezmann conning the ref to be brought up. The video refs and people watching at home could all see it quickly on replay yet it couldn't be overruled.
Then there was a corner that should've been given to Croatia, the replay was shown within seconds. A quick word saying it clearly come off the French player would be handy. A 100% no interpretation is needed instance that could be made in the video room.
This goes back to clear and obvious. A decision can be made very quickly in these cases. Of course I don't want every decision looked at with refs looking who it come off last for a minute but the problem is conning the ref with no contact on the edge of the box which results in a goal in a world cup final is poor and also disgraceful from Griezmann.
Think it worked really well, not just to remove obvious referee errors but also reduce the dark arts in the box.
When players know they cannot get away with it due to VAR, they'll stop
There are still fine tuning of course, even to just remove the "clear and obvious error" line since it feels random. Use it like a tool that is up to the ref's discretion, on the recommendation of the var officials.
When players know they cannot get away with it due to VAR, they'll stop
There are still fine tuning of course, even to just remove the "clear and obvious error" line since it feels random. Use it like a tool that is up to the ref's discretion, on the recommendation of the var officials.
For me, VAR was a huge success. Not so much the ref's interpretation of it!
if the decisions are black and white yes it could be good, like the ball crossing the line, but when there is grey area's then it can never truly work, needs to be a lot of changes in football for it to work, like if there is any contact with the arm in the box it needs to be a penalty, don't matter if your 12 inches away or whatever. players would then just chip the ball up at defenders arms to win penaltys.
For the first major tournament I think it was okay, far from flawless, referees, players and managers still got shitloads to learn but it's a start and not a complete floppish one.
VAR has been great, the referees are very average as always. In my opinion, all decisions should be made by the VAR’s - not the guy on the pitch. Saves lots of time, and, the players cannot bitch as he didn’t make the decision. Three guys in the box in agreement beats the referee on the pitch, simple. I think that American referee let the VAR’s make the decision 2-3 times without looking at it - very smart.
This.
It works perfectly in those scenarios though as it allows the refs to actually see what happened. Half the time the ref completely misses the ball hitting an arm because he is human and can't possibly see everything in real time. VAR giving an extra look works perfectly. The problem is, no one knows what constitutes a handball. The biggest thing we've learned at the WC is something needs to be done about the handball rule.
This.
Just look at the rule and what happened yesterday.
The ref used slow-motion yesterday which he shouldn't have used, because normal speed shows that Perisic contact was not intentional.
It's like that thing from two years ago when a policeman stopped the guy in England and wanted to write him a speeding ticket because he felt the guy was speeding.
There were major feck ups in the final, Brazil v Belgium quarter final and Spain v Russia second round tie. Can’t remember the same collection of issues in the knockout stages of the last World Cup.
but it wasn't a clear handball hence why it should still not be giving, slowing any decision down is going to make it look worse, also not just handball the ref watched a replay and still got the brazil penalty wrong v Belgium, almost everytime the ref went over to have a look at the TV's they changed there minds, its like the VAR refs are saying you got it wrong in the 1st place, and as soon as that happens there was 2 much pressure on the refs, I think only once I seen a ref say no his original decision was fine. also the pulling in the box, find it weird how the VAR refs can see it sometimes and not others ? was it Kane in one game who was manhandled to the ground ? or Ronaldo throwing a punch ? and don't get me started on the diving, surely if a player has dived even if the game goes on a few minutes they should be able to say to the ref its a dive and book the player.
On balance, yes.
There are still a few tweaks to be made and I'd particularly like to see more effort put into communicating the logic behind decisions so we're not left trying to figure it out ourselves.
Looking beyond VAR itself, a few of the game's rules will probably need to be altered if we're going to be scrutinizing decisions in this way. The handball rule in particular is far too ill-defined.
There are still a few tweaks to be made and I'd particularly like to see more effort put into communicating the logic behind decisions so we're not left trying to figure it out ourselves.
Looking beyond VAR itself, a few of the game's rules will probably need to be altered if we're going to be scrutinizing decisions in this way. The handball rule in particular is far too ill-defined.
This.
Just look at the rule and what happened yesterday.
The ref used slow-motion yesterday which he shouldn't have used, because normal speed shows that Perisic contact was not intentional.
It's like that thing from two years ago when a policeman stopped the guy in England and wanted to write him a speeding ticket because he felt the guy was speeding.
He watched it at normal speed too, didn't he? I assumed to slow-mo was used to judge contact and arm position while the normal speed was used to judge the pace of the ball.
If I'm wrong and he only used slow-mo then you're right, he didn't use the technology as well as he should have.
Generally yes. Referees are still human though and there has been silly decisions.
However the tournament was definitely better off for it. The Premier League should have implemented it and will catch a lot of flack this season for not doing so.
However the tournament was definitely better off for it. The Premier League should have implemented it and will catch a lot of flack this season for not doing so.
Needs to go further than that. Crowding the ref after he changes a decision, pestering him to go to var, hounding him after every challenge for cards, its an absolute disgrace.
Should just change the rule to automatic yellow if anyone else other than the captain talks back to the ref.
Obv if say young gives away a fk he can say ref, did i not get the ball? Ie what did you see there, but anything more than that in that scenario example should go through your captain or its a red card.
If young was absolutely up ended from a 2 footed lunge if he gets up screaming for a read he should get a yellow. Let the captain approach the ref and let him explain to thw captain why its not a red.
Let the captain go up to the ref after a var and get him to explain the decision 1 on 1. If the whole team crowd him book the lot of them.
Its the only way to solve it
Even with var refs suck. They can't even learn those few rules when you can use it. Is that that difficult job? In few years brain surgeons and heart surgeons will say; our job is hard, but football ref is something special. The most difficult job in the world.
Brazil vs Belgium was a penalty the size of the stadium and we didn't need VAR for that one but wasn't called. I guess was some interest having Brazil out of the tournament.
VAR has been a mixed bag at this world cup, but I think that was always inevitable considering it was the first World Cup it has been regularly used at, I don't, however, think it deserves the label of a "Farce" as described by Shearer or a "Shambles" as Milner put it.
I think, in particular, the Iran - Portugal and the Spain- Morroco games were the best examples of how VAR can get things spot on, and how there are still improvements to be made. It seems that something designed to reduce the sense of injustice and foul play in football might actually end up making things worse. I think one of the worst decisions was Ronaldo's off the ball elbow against Pouraliganji, where Cristiano was given a yellow for what was obvious foul play. Another incident that comes to mind is Aspas' goal being allowed after an initial offside call. Whilst Moroccan's were incensed, it was the right call to make.
Overall VAR was best used when concerning goals scored, see Diego Costa vs portugal, Ezatolahi vs Spain and Aspas vs Morrocco. Red Cards and Penalties, however, have been a much more mixed bage, in particular , Rebic on Salvio in Croatia vs, and the Non Dismissal of Pique.
I think what FIFA need to do is remove "clear and obvious" from the wording of the regulations as this leads to confusion with regards to what the VAR refs should and shouldn't be looking out for, and obviously different individuals definitions of "Clear and Obvious" are going to be different. I also think VAR could be used to remove weak minded and ineffective referees, such as Caceres from officiating. His use of VAR proved to the world that he is an inept referee and weak minded.
I think, in particular, the Iran - Portugal and the Spain- Morroco games were the best examples of how VAR can get things spot on, and how there are still improvements to be made. It seems that something designed to reduce the sense of injustice and foul play in football might actually end up making things worse. I think one of the worst decisions was Ronaldo's off the ball elbow against Pouraliganji, where Cristiano was given a yellow for what was obvious foul play. Another incident that comes to mind is Aspas' goal being allowed after an initial offside call. Whilst Moroccan's were incensed, it was the right call to make.
Overall VAR was best used when concerning goals scored, see Diego Costa vs portugal, Ezatolahi vs Spain and Aspas vs Morrocco. Red Cards and Penalties, however, have been a much more mixed bage, in particular , Rebic on Salvio in Croatia vs, and the Non Dismissal of Pique.
I think what FIFA need to do is remove "clear and obvious" from the wording of the regulations as this leads to confusion with regards to what the VAR refs should and shouldn't be looking out for, and obviously different individuals definitions of "Clear and Obvious" are going to be different. I also think VAR could be used to remove weak minded and ineffective referees, such as Caceres from officiating. His use of VAR proved to the world that he is an inept referee and weak minded.
Some expert on ESPN pointed at all of this saying that the ref watched the slow-mo and by that he went against the clear written rule.
He could be wrong, but considering the time the ref spent looking at the monitor he's probably right.
No.
And I simply just hate VAR and that we now have to talk about these sort of VAR decisions instead of the actual football after the game. Way too much VAR/penalties in the beginning (football became a play of just touching each other in the area or giving a penalty for natural positioned hands). Same bad interpretation and plain wrong use in the final. (Should only reverse decision if clearly a penalty according to FIFA/the rules)
Everybody has their own interpretation and decisions are not publically commented which it should be so we know its not bias/corrupted. Still open to fraud, favoritism and bias.
Not ready for the PL. Currently hoping we'll never have it.
And I simply just hate VAR and that we now have to talk about these sort of VAR decisions instead of the actual football after the game. Way too much VAR/penalties in the beginning (football became a play of just touching each other in the area or giving a penalty for natural positioned hands). Same bad interpretation and plain wrong use in the final. (Should only reverse decision if clearly a penalty according to FIFA/the rules)
Everybody has their own interpretation and decisions are not publically commented which it should be so we know its not bias/corrupted. Still open to fraud, favoritism and bias.
Not ready for the PL. Currently hoping we'll never have it.
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It’s been a brilliant success on everything on handball where each referee seems to carry a different rule book and common sense is entirely absent in decision making.
big success
I was firmly against VAR, pre-tournament, but am coming around to it now. Lots of annoying issues and inconsistencies in how it's being applied but if they can find a way to iron them out then maybe, just maybe, I could see myself changing my mind.
I think so, it was actually quicker than I expected. Referees have been a bit poor though, they need some time and training as when to use it etc.
It does make me laugh when people just say "VAR is shit" as people have said it's just a tool! It's like a builder moaning that his drill keeps putting holes in stuff.
It does make me laugh when people just say "VAR is shit" as people have said it's just a tool! It's like a builder moaning that his drill keeps putting holes in stuff.
I liked it overall, but I still don't understand the Brazil non-penalty call.
It would be nice if the ref would make an announcment if it doesn't take too long like in the NFL instead of just pointing.
It would be nice if the ref would make an announcment if it doesn't take too long like in the NFL instead of just pointing.
The most important thing I have noticed is that VAR doesn't actually disrupt the flow of the game. It just helps the referees make a more informed decision. VAR will help in reducing unethical tactics like pulling shirts, diving, intentional fouls, etc. This world cup has given the clearest indication that VAR is going to become a mainstay in football. So I have to say it has been a success.
Portugal were pretty close to exiting a round earlier, after that bizarre penalty decision against Iran.
Yes, with certain reservations. I think the system itself worked well, most decisions did not need the elongated time that we saw in some of the trial games. The issue of course is implementation, the human element, some of the choices of what to refer and what to ignore have made little sense, some of the soft pens for grappling frustrated me, because it often seemed that it required a concerted effort, and some gamesmanship from the "wronged" to bring it to the attention of the ref.
I am not particularly loving how it has made set pieces and pens take on a much greater importance and focus again, the Sam Allardyce, Kendall and Tony Pulis wet dream. Mostly it has confirmed that there are decisions in football that are impossible to convince everyone of one side, interpretation is football.
I am not particularly loving how it has made set pieces and pens take on a much greater importance and focus again, the Sam Allardyce, Kendall and Tony Pulis wet dream. Mostly it has confirmed that there are decisions in football that are impossible to convince everyone of one side, interpretation is football.
I'd like to see the result of dives spotted by VAR rewarded with cards. I think it will only get better over time.
The penalty decision in the final. Ok, I know it’s not VAR that makes the decision but the ref is looking it at it in slow mo and getting a different perspective on it. In real time that’s never a pen. I do think VAR should be brought in though for things like diving and shithousery tactics. Let’s cut that out of football.
Yes, it allowed referees to make much more correct decisions (which we wouldn't see without it) than the wrong ones. Simple as that.
Handball will always be a subject of debate I feel as it's too much open for interpretation.
Handball will always be a subject of debate I feel as it's too much open for interpretation.
It did exactly what I thought it would do. It created stoppages in the game which I hated, it was inconsistently applied and it just gave referees a greater length of rope to hang themselves with.
In fact it was worse, because I thought an independent panel, including a qualified referee, would review footage and give quicker calls. But instead we had the referee going back and forth to check. Even the penalty in the final he had to keep going back to double check.
In fact it was worse, because I thought an independent panel, including a qualified referee, would review footage and give quicker calls. But instead we had the referee going back and forth to check. Even the penalty in the final he had to keep going back to double check.
It proved it can work, that's all it needed to do.
Now they sort out the kinks in it (of which there are many) and it'll be fine.
Now they sort out the kinks in it (of which there are many) and it'll be fine.
I must say VAR was a huge success for France. 
It was still very imperfect and there's a lot to improve.
It was still very imperfect and there's a lot to improve.