Has there ever been a summer big enough for what we need?

Beachryan said:
There appear to be two realities we're facing:
1. INEOS appear serious about attempting to fix the squad, and are staffing up with serious football people

2. This squad needs, at least, a new LB, CF, 2 CMs and a CB. We need to shift at least Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood and would likely look to move on Varane and Casemiro. I'd shift McT but that's me.

Has a team ever done that kind of transfer activity in a single window?

I worry we're all in for disappointment if we expect too much.
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So sell two cbs and only bring one in? When Martinez and varane can’t stay fit?
 
Beachryan said:
There appear to be two realities we're facing:
1. INEOS appear serious about attempting to fix the squad, and are staffing up with serious football people

2. This squad needs, at least, a new LB, CF, 2 CMs and a CB. We need to shift at least Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood and would likely look to move on Varane and Casemiro. I'd shift McT but that's me.

Has a team ever done that kind of transfer activity in a single window?

I worry we're all in for disappointment if we expect too much.
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Great post. Unfortunately, I don't think us being able to do all of what you said, under FFP rules. Certainly not if we go for finished articles in 40M - 70M range, per head. We would need to find unknown and unproven gems for much cheaper, and even then we would need to sell players well to raise enough money. Unrealistic both of those.

p.s. I think we actually need two CBs, unless Willy Kambwala plays many minutes for the rest of the season, and proves that he can be "next Mainoo" kindof breakthrough.
 
What we need will take a lot of time, but there are ways around it I think. We won't do this, but it would be a good start.

Getting Rashford out of the door would bring in some decent money still, and would leave us no worse off. That money could pay for a new CB at the very least. Then we just go with Garnacho, Antony, Amad and a new winger which would cost money of course but that's just one signing.

Getting McTom and Casemiro out would hopefully bring in £40m or so, and with that money we could look to get in a new midfielder if we can identify one who isn't already super expensive. We would still need another at least, but could use a loan slot.

Finally, we need a striker. We already have a very good striker who just needs some decent players around him, so this could just be an upcoming youngster or older striker who's happy to be second choice but could be good for some goals when Hojlund can't play.

So, we might spend £120m roughly if we have to buy a winger who can actually pass the ball, find the striker with the occasional cross, and beat his man every now and then, and a decent backup striker, with the rest covered by sales/loan.
 
Beachryan said:
There appear to be two realities we're facing:
1. INEOS appear serious about attempting to fix the squad, and are staffing up with serious football people

2. This squad needs, at least, a new LB, CF, 2 CMs and a CB. We need to shift at least Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood and would likely look to move on Varane and Casemiro. I'd shift McT but that's me.

Has a team ever done that kind of transfer activity in a single window?

I worry we're all in for disappointment if we expect too much.
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You're not wrong in your assessment, but no, we won't get all that done for a variety of reasons.

FFP being chief among them. Logistically with international football being another. Possible sluggishness of getting key staff into place another, that could hit efficiency.

They're talking about doing things to produce our own players which suggests a younger profile but the bottom line is even the unproven players cost a lot these days. And we need the ones with superior potential.

It's another rebuilding job I'm afraid. It's not a one window wonder, it needs a few years worth of finance.
 
We legitimately need more right now than I can ever recall us needing, and no, it can't be done in one summer. I doubt it can be done in the next two.

We need somewhere between 5 and 8 new players in the first eleven.
 
We need to sell in order to buy.
Really think we need to sell Varane, Casemiro and more controversially, Bruno and Rashford.

We need at least a central defender, a defensive midfielder to partner Mainoo and a striker.
 
Is there anyway we could move on: Erickson and Casemerio? If so, we can bring in better midfielders.
Ideal summer would be to sell McT, Erickson (even just release him), Casemiro along with departures of Varane and Martial end of contract. That will free up some huge wages and allow us to concentrate on non-big name players to build a team around.
Selling Rashford and/or Fernandes would also be amazing as they don't fit this new style of play. Can't see the new management wanting to keep them around if we are aiming to be a possession based team.
 
Imagine if we had a 2007 style summer, where we got Tevez, Anderson, Nani and Harvgreaves. So a quality forward, young talented midfielder, young talented winger, and established midfielder.

Now I know they all don’t work out for various reasons, but on paper it was an amazing window. If we had that again, it would still leave gaps in defense though, and younger players wouldn’t have the comfort of being in a world class experienced squad.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
What we need will take a lot of time, but there are ways around it I think. We won't do this, but it would be a good start.

Getting Rashford out of the door would bring in some decent money still, and would leave us no worse off. That money could pay for a new CB at the very least. Then we just go with Garnacho, Antony, Amad and a new winger which would cost money of course but that's just one signing.

Getting McTom and Casemiro out would hopefully bring in £40m or so, and with that money we could look to get in a new midfielder if we can identify one who isn't already super expensive. We would still need another at least, but could use a loan slot.

Finally, we need a striker. We already have a very good striker who just needs some decent players around him, so this could just be an upcoming youngster or older striker who's happy to be second choice but could be good for some goals when Hojlund can't play.

So, we might spend £120m roughly if we have to buy a winger who can actually pass the ball, find the striker with the occasional cross, and beat his man every now and then, and a decent backup striker, with the rest covered by sales/loan.
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So this summer you’re not going to touch our defence?

We have Shaw who can’t stay fit, Martinez who can’t stay fit, Malacia who hasn’t played all year, Lindelof not good enough and only 1 year left,
same with AWB, same with Maguire (we have a pie 1 option though), Varane is unreliable and out of contract, Evans is 35/36 and out of contract.

It’s possibly our biggest area of concern IMO due to fitness issues, contract situations and general tactical suitability. None of our CBs are athletic enough to play a high line which you practically need to play nowadays to be successful. We simply cannot go into next season with the same set of CBs, we need to sign two at a minimum.
 
daba said:
So this summer you’re not going to touch our defence?

We have Shaw who can’t stay fit, Martinez who can’t stay fit, Malacia who hasn’t played all year, Lindelof not good enough and only 1 year left,
same with AWB, same with Maguire (we have a pie 1 option though), Varane is unreliable and out of contract, Evans is 35/36 and out of contract.

It’s possibly our biggest area of concern IMO due to fitness issues, contract situations and general tactical suitability. None of our CBs are athletic enough to play a high line which you practically need to play nowadays to be successful. We simply cannot go into next season with the same set of CBs, we need to sign two at a minimum.
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I agree we simply can’t go into next season without two new CB’s but we also can’t go into it without two new midfielders as well. So many players just aren’t fit for purpose in those positions and it’s of equal importance we strengthen both areas. And we also only have one striker and rarely have a fit left back so those are pretty big issues as well.
 
daba said:
So this summer you’re not going to touch our defence?

We have Shaw who can’t stay fit, Martinez who can’t stay fit, Malacia who hasn’t played all year, Lindelof not good enough and only 1 year left,
same with AWB, same with Maguire (we have a pie 1 option though), Varane is unreliable and out of contract, Evans is 35/36 and out of contract.

It’s possibly our biggest area of concern IMO due to fitness issues, contract situations and general tactical suitability. None of our CBs are athletic enough to play a high line which you practically need to play nowadays to be successful. We simply cannot go into next season with the same set of CBs, we need to sign two at a minimum.
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I totally agree with this but we do have young talent coming through, none of them will break out next year in the defence from the under 18 squad but we have genuine talent in midfield and attack that could come through.

Two CB’s and personally I keep Martinez and Maguire, let Varane go on a free, Evans retire, sell Lindelof, buy J Branthwaite and J Todibo, using Kambawla as the 5th option.
 
Why are people trying to shift Maguire?
 
Next season we need to replace:

Varane
Evans
Casemiro
Eriksen
Sancho
Rashford
Anthony
Bruno

Last 3 ones are tough cases though.
 
Woziak said:
I totally agree with this but we do have young talent coming through, none of them will break out next year in the defence from the under 18 squad but we have genuine talent in midfield and attack that could come through.

Two CB’s and personally I keep Martinez and Maguire, let Varane go on a free, Evans retire, sell Lindelof, buy J Branthwaite and J Todibo, using Kambawla as the 5th option.
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Personally, I’d keep Evans as our 5th choice for one more year and get Kambwala a really good loan at either a lower prem or upper champ team (maybe Ipswich if they go up or Luton if they down). Hopefully Kambwala can come back twice the player and ready to be 3rd/4th choice instead of 5th.

Martinez, Todibo, Adarabioyo, Maguire or Lindelof and Evans with Shaw as another option, for me that will do for next season.
 
Everyone is saying we need we need we need but there's no specifics as to who they are and what their function in the team will be.

Despite the common consensus online this is a decent team on paper across the midfield and the attack. I think the defense could do with improvements being a younger player to cover Varane (Todibo) but in the market you won't find a better available replacement over Casmiro, Bruno and even Rashford in whose case it will be a player who will need to prove themselves

The reason there aren't obvious candidates is because the structure of the team is a monumental failure from a tactical perspective, a prime Kante couldn't cover the imbalances of the midfield. There has to be a level of accountability from the manager to extract better performances from the players at his current disposal.
 
There far too much to do in one single summer, right now we should look to secure the Director of Football and Technical Director first, and then create a proper Football org chart. The second biggest decision is making sure that ETH or whoever the new manager is sits down with the hierarchy and explained from football people what the club expects from the 2024/25 season.

Premier League - Position -1st to 4th
Expected Points 72-
(CL guaranteed Football)
No more than 8/9 defeats
Improve Goal scored on the PL from the last two seasons of 58-60 to 75 Goals
Average Goals per game target 2 goals per game
Improve Goals conceded from 45-55 to 35-44
Average goals per game target 1.1 goals per game.

Europa League - Target SF
Domestic Cup - Target win one of Carabo or Fa Cup

The DOF, TD and CEO should appraise the manager every two months to see what path he’s on and what he needs to help him achieve the clubs targets for the season.

For example when the season is completed, a review is done and all four agree the players the club needs to get rid of like; Martial, Varane, Casemiro, DVB, Lindelof, Malacia, F Pellistri, Hanibal, M Greenwood, then they create another folder for players they may sell like ; Antony, Rashford, Sancho, S Mctominay, AWB.

Obviously if a new coach comes in, that coach may believe that he can get Sancho and Rashford playing at an elite level, the risk will be completely his decision not the transfer committees!

The panel also discuss changes to the medical department, coaching and recovery facilities at Carrington and make concrete plans to recruit specific players who will improve the current team’s obvious weaknesses.

The Conclusion
Every United fan knows we need two Centre Backs, a young Left back, an experienced mobile DM/CM, a physical imposing mobile CM, a right winger and an experienced CF. That’s a minimum of 7 new elite players.

If we qualify for EL, there is two extra league games which will mean the club will potentially play 60-64 games in the 24/25 season if the club has successful domestic runs as well.

That manager and first team coaches will need a squad of 27/28 with at least 2/3 from our youth set up being promoted to create a regular pathway to encourage excellence from within. Jason Wilcox will now target U18 and U23 on win rate, trophies and a desire to try and win the FA Youth Cup every season. Win, Clean sheet , Assist and Goal bonuses will be added to their first contracts they can sign when they are 17 year old. So for example Kobbie new contract would be signed as he’s played 25 PL games and he now gets a basic Salary of £40k per week, 5k PL start bonus, 2.5k Assist, 5k Goals and 5k clean sheet so he could earn £57.5k per week after 100 First team appearances his contract is reviewed and changed to £65k per week with double the bonus values from before so he could earn 100k per week as a 20 year old playing out of his skin but more likely to get £70-80k.

Now Dan Ashworth, Jason Wilcox and even Omar Berrada with have ideas on which players we should be letting go and who we should be bringing in. Lets assume they all agree, highly unlikely and the club decide to sell the following;
M Greenwood(30m), DVB(5m), B Williams(5m),F Pellistri(10m),
S Mctominay(30m) , V Lindelof(10m), Hanibal(13m), A Fernandez(7m), Casemiro(30m/Saudi) and we release S Amrabat, R Varane and A Martial.

The club has net profit of £80m on academy players which is pure profit and a total transfer of £140m but more importantly you’ve freed up £1.5m per week on wages which is huge. Moving Sancho and Antony will be nye on impossible because of their wages but a loan will probably be done for one of them and that one will depend on who the coach is, if ETH is sacked, Sancho will be back, if not then Antony.

The transfer committee of four decide early who their men are and they decide to sign the following players;
Jared Branthwaite(65m), J C Todibo(7m loan with an obligation to buy), M Gutierrez (25m), J Kimmich(50m) or A Rabiot(Free), R Barclay(Free), J Neves(90m), M Olise (55m), I Toney(65m)
I know this will never happen, it’s just an example of what should be done!

then they promote three of the U18’s players like Dan Gore, Eithan Wheatley and Jack Fletcher or Eithan Williams or Shea Lacey.

A new coach would have a sizeable squad looking like this;
GK- A Onana, A Bayinder, T Heaton(HG)
Defenders - D Dalot, AWB(HG), L Shaw(HG)
M Gutierrez, J C Todibo, J Branthwaite
(HG), H Maguire(HG), L Martinez, W Kambwala(HG), H Amass(YPW)

Midfield - A Rabiot(HG), R Barclay(HG),
J Neves, K Mainoo(HG), D Gore(HG),
M Mount(HG), Bruno, C Eriksen

Attackers - M Olise(HG), I Toney(HG), R Hojlund, J Sancho(HG), E Wheatley(YPW),
Amad, M Rashford(HG), A Garnaucho(HG)

This squad would be a huge improvement and could be rotated effectively always having dangerous players to come on from the bench and change the game. Although the squad is 28, there will always be 5 or 6 injured and this will give the club a pathway for young talented players to come through much earlier, being fielded in domestic cups and Europa League.
 
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Roboc7 said:
I agree we simply can’t go into next season without two new CB’s but we also can’t go into it without two new midfielders as well. So many players just aren’t fit for purpose in those positions and it’s of equal importance we strengthen both areas. And we also only have one striker and rarely have a fit left back so those are pretty big issues as well.
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Oh I agree, if we want to make a meaningful step forward next season then we need two new CMs/DMs for sure. We lack physicality, pace and power pretty much all through our spine. And to play the kind of football I think ETH is trying to play then we need to add this to both our central midfield and defence.
 
Redstain said:
Everyone is saying we need we need we need but there's no specifics as to who they are and what their function in the team will be.

Despite the common consensus online this is a decent team on paper across the midfield and the attack. I think the defense could do with improvements being a younger player to cover Varane (Todibo) but in the market you won't find a better available replacement over Casmiro, Bruno and even Rashford in whose case it will be a player who will need to prove themselves

The reason there aren't obvious candidates is because the structure of the team is a monumental failure from a tactical perspective, a prime Kante couldn't cover the imbalances of the midfield. There has to be a level of accountability from the manager to extract better performances from the players at his current disposal.
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Not sure where you’ve been but there are multiple threads with members posting specific areas they feel need attention with specific players and explanations.

Todibo is hardly a ground-breaking suggestion either to follow up that comment too…
 
daba said:
Not sure where you’ve been but there are multiple threads with members posting specific areas they feel need attention with specific players and explanations.

Todibo is hardly a ground-breaking suggestion either to follow up that comment too…
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I don't see United changing circumstances drastically with the input of new players, it feels more like the hope of fan sentiment in contrast with poor managerial performance as an outlier for a brighter tomorrow. The feasibility for this team to improve is fundamentally down to the accountability of the manager and his staff.

The team was more balanced last season assessing performances with a cohesion that ultimately determined the former campaign as a success which the manager was accredited for. In the summer signings were made to strengthen the standings of last season but a difference of philosophy / approach has reverted everything back to a state of infancy. If the prerogative is to build from season to season then you have to question the direction of where this team is headed as opposed to the asseveration of a big summer.
 
It’s deeper than just throwing players at it which has been shown over last 11 years.. however, to sort this squad off out We need to sell around 12 of our players which realistically could be done over the next 3/4 transfer windows? Awb, varane, lindelof, maguire, lindelof, shaw, Evans, eriksen, amrabat (back to club), mctominay, Casemiro, rashford. Then you have the small matter of replacing them with upgrades which is no easy task. That is where the youth will come into play.

all of the above just highlights how much money we have wasted really.
 
daba said:
So this summer you’re not going to touch our defence?

We have Shaw who can’t stay fit, Martinez who can’t stay fit, Malacia who hasn’t played all year, Lindelof not good enough and only 1 year left,
same with AWB, same with Maguire (we have a pie 1 option though), Varane is unreliable and out of contract, Evans is 35/36 and out of contract.

It’s possibly our biggest area of concern IMO due to fitness issues, contract situations and general tactical suitability. None of our CBs are athletic enough to play a high line which you practically need to play nowadays to be successful. We simply cannot go into next season with the same set of CBs, we need to sign two at a minimum.
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I did include a CB in the first paragraph, hopefully Shaw should be fit by next season and we can't get everything at once. You might be right though, maybe we need that as a priority.
 
NoPace said:
Difference is you can probably sell Nketiah, Nelson and Ramsdale for 70M combined to mid-table sides and that pays for your striker.

Backup keeper won't cost a ton, so basically just paying for a Partey/Jorginho replacement and an LB. I don't think you need a CB with Gabriel, Saliba, Tomiyasu, Kiwior and White as options since Timber will presumably get games at RB and White can play RCB.

So a pretty normal 120M type summer if the midfielder costs 60M, the LB costs 30M and you spend another 30M on a top young player position irrelevant.
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My point was its a constant process.

If you try to solve everything in a single window/year it ends up as Chelsea.
The Club has to except that this is a 5 yr project and move with a plan.

The steps are clear..
1. Build a structure with DoF who can build a long term vision. Then hire a long term project manager who is a very good coach aswell as eventually most plays would have to be developed at the club.
2. Clear the house. Everyone except Mainoo/Garnacho/Hojlund should be moved on. Moving player on is more important than getting best deals as then you can give minutes to young/academy guys. This is invaluable as you can afford to do this only at the start when you are building from scratch and you have essentially written of 2/3 seasons for long term growth.
3. Get young and hungry players with high potential to build the building blocks.
4. Once a team identity start build start to compete to get to those CL spots regularly.
5. Hire well to plug holes in the squad but no more than 3 important players a year to keep the continuity. And the start the journey for the PL title chase.
Repeat step 5 continuously.


As you can see its a continuous process. Also getting to CL earlier can be counter productive aswell as seen with Newcastle. So pacing the process is important.
 
As people have mentioned, we need to move on a lot of this squad,

I think the board will prioritise offloading players who have 1 year left on their contract to maximise the money we can spend and avoid losing them on a free, followed by players that are surplus to requirements but I guess we have to wait and see who the new manager is.
 
spe88 said:
As people have mentioned, we need to move on a lot of this squad,
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This is going to be the first real test of INEOS.
We all know how bad we have been with signing players over the past decade, but we are even worse at selling.

When I look through our squad, even being generous, I have 16 players I'd want rid of.
How ruthless and efficient are INEOS going to be..?
Because if they repeat the past, and start giving another chance or a new contract to certain players, or failing to shift Van de Beek etc, then we are going nowhere fast.
 
We're going to bring some more youngsters in over the next couple of years, our U18 side is exceptional. Main focus needs to be shifting out some more of the wasters and trying to get what we can for them and fixing the CB and DM positions where we continue to be light, whether through injury, age or ability.
 
Man Utd at the moment doesn't even have the structure/personnel/senior staffs for transfer operation, let alone the magnitude the fans are expecting. Now is already April, lots of ground works are needed for player recruitment.
 
For me the most important improvement we can/should make is the central defensive triumvirate; the 2 CBs and the DM. These three signings are non negotiable because we need to up our physicality, pace and technical attributes there first. In a 4-2-3-1 Mainoo can grow, at his own pace, as the 8 partnering the DM.

The next port of call is LB, Shaw can't be relied on and I think Malacia, who was never good enough in the first place, is lost forever. So an LB is imperative, letting Ruguilon go has been costly.

If we are in an FFP bind the we should sell Bruno and Rashford but hopefully the likes of Berrada have enough contacts in the game to get us some value for Sancho and Greenwood. This, in addition to wage savings on Martial should get us a winger in the plus 50m fee range. Getting something like 50m for Greenwood and Sancho to buy a forward would negate the need to Bruno and Murcus.

In an ideal world we get 50m for Casemiro and Scot. If we top that up with another 30m we could get a DM and an upcoming CM. We could then scour the bargain basement for a journeyman striker so that we give Hoijlund another season before we invest in genuine competition for him.

So that would be out:
Varane
Martial
Casemiro 30m
Sancho 30m
Greenwood 25m
Evans
Scot 30m and in:

Todibo 50m
CB 50m
LB 30m
DM 50m
CM 30m
RW/LW 50m
ST loan

Which should work out to about 150m net plus a huge reduction in wages. I don't expect anyone to come in for Antony and a new coach might feel like he can get some purchase off him on the training field, he has a few raw materials that can be channeled into becoming a useful player. For all his lack of pace he is still one of our few forwards who gets in dangerous positions but decisionaking lets him down.
 
It all hinges on INEOS (and sadly the Glazers)

But as long as their plan is communicated and a timeline is clear to see then I won’t complain that much.

One aspect is…a bunch of unwanted players have expiring contracts this summer and next. Does INEOS try to get rid or recoup some money or do they play the long game and keep them around purely numbers and cover.
 
Why is everybody claiming CB & DM are out most important positions? We haven't had a LB the entire season and there is no evidence to support Malacia coming back or Shaw not being injured half a season, we have regularly played with no LB but never had zero CB's, I'd argue we need to improve the quality of that position but in order our priorities should be:

LB, CB, DM & then striker.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Why is everybody claiming CB & DM are out most important positions? We haven't had a LB the entire season and there is no evidence to support Malacia coming back or Shaw not being injured half a season, we have regularly played with no LB but never had zero CB's, I'd argue we need to improve the quality of that position but in order our priorities should be:

LB, CB, DM & then striker.
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The issue is, fitness permitting, Luke Shaw is very good probably the best in the league or thereabouts. Our arguments aren't from an availability perspective, which is equally important, but a qualitative one. The big money needs to go to CB and DM with LB coming in as a third but without really pushing the boat out to make him our big summer signing.
 
CB Tosin on a free
CB Todibo £40m (Nice)
RB Frimpong £35 release clause
CM Varela £60m release clause
CM Thuram £30m (Niceyear left on contract)
ST Jonathan David £40-50m (1 year left on contract)

that’s roughly £200m or so before any sales. back line sorted, midfield rebuilt and youthful and a legit striker to rotate and compete with Hojlund.

depending on sales, could bring in Branthwaite instead of Todibo and/or bring in another wide player that offers something different (like Kubo; £45m or so release clause I think).
 
ATXRedDevil said:
CB Tosin on a free
CB Todibo £40m (Nice)
RB Frimpong £35 release clause
CM Varela £60m release clause
CM Thuram £30m (Niceyear left on contract)
ST Jonathan David £40-50m (1 year left on contract)

that’s roughly £200m or so before any sales. back line sorted, midfield rebuilt and youthful and a legit striker to rotate and compete with Hojlund.

depending on sales, could bring in Branthwaite instead of Todibo and/or bring in another wide player that offers something different (like Kubo; £45m or so release clause I think).
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Perfect summer that.
 
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